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...despite being an older community for competitive video games? Or rather, how the fuck did you/we manage to keep this place civilized after so many years?
https://www.teamliquidpro.com/about
I have been to several other sites for old competitive games, and most of them are not as friendly and welcoming as this place. While all of them share TL.net's elitist nature, we somehow managed to dodge most of the problems with elitist Internet communities: Our elite here don't go out of their way to throw their weight around, and we're quite open to dissent and disagreement without devolving into terrible flame wars.
I don't use the word elitist in a negative way, though I am at a loss for a better word to describe the atmosphere here. "Professional?" "Meritocratic?"
I once asked why we have easy to take expansions in Starcraft 2, which I conflated with "natural expansion." Had I asked this in several other forums - questioning something taken for granted in the game - I probably would've been flamed, warned, maybe banned from those sites.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505474-why-do-natural-expansions-exist
It feels weird that a site such as this could've existed for so long without devolving into an echo chamber.
I will not mention which Internet communities I've been to, but their layouts are very similar to the one TL.net uses. I made the mistake of assuming that they were as open to discussion as TL.net, to my detriment. Those sites look like this one, but their cultures are very different from ours.
No, this isn't intended to be a TeamLiquid Fighting! circlejerk. I'm genuinely curious how this site managed to avoid all the pitfalls associated with older forums.
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that looks like irony to me ... but to answer the question: they banned the dissenters. sameness is confident and stable but doesn't evolve. think of a society without aliens, it is that. conform or be cased out.
rejecting diversity bends perceptions (especially when on the inside). this unity in goodness you seem to see here, has been payed in blood.
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On May 27 2017 16:04 xM(Z wrote: that looks like irony to me ... but to answer the question: they banned the dissenters. sameness is confident and stable but doesn't evolve. think of a society without aliens, it is that. conform or be cased out.
rejecting diversity bends perceptions (especially when on the inside). this unity in goodness you seem to see here, has been payed in blood.
Melodramatic nonsense as usual. Conformity and friendliness are essentially orthogonal to each other.
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On May 27 2017 17:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 16:04 xM(Z wrote: that looks like irony to me ... but to answer the question: they banned the dissenters. sameness is confident and stable but doesn't evolve. think of a society without aliens, it is that. conform or be cased out.
rejecting diversity bends perceptions (especially when on the inside). this unity in goodness you seem to see here, has been payed in blood. Melodramatic nonsense as usual. Conformity and friendliness are essentially orthogonal to each other. <conformity, friendliness> = 0 ?
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On May 27 2017 17:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 16:04 xM(Z wrote: that looks like irony to me ... but to answer the question: they banned the dissenters. sameness is confident and stable but doesn't evolve. think of a society without aliens, it is that. conform or be cased out.
rejecting diversity bends perceptions (especially when on the inside). this unity in goodness you seem to see here, has been payed in blood. Melodramatic nonsense as usual. Conformity and friendliness are essentially orthogonal to each other. hence the irony. take Coagulation for example; he used to be a bonafide entertainer but now he's been reduced to a blogger ...
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well if i can venture a guess,
it predates the stream explosion
it is made by poker players
it has loads of old people turning young people into older people
it has loads of people sending people unto it
it has a marginally good moderation work ethic (meaning the fault s that they can be guilty of are never worse than elsewhere, usually nice people have a nice time and hard ases want to stay on
to be blunt tl is sc, so if you love sc (or sc2 whatever dude it is the same game ) you know tl
and you probably use it too
companies/people have been trying to corner the niche stuff forever
tl got its niche and this niche of rts fanatics is like a tribe inside tl making sure it survives
..
i got to agree that tl is bland.. that things change at snail pace
but that does not make it bad.. just slow to me.. probably too quick for someone else that likes tl just as much as i do...
dunno..
i feel that tl's history (of which i know very little, for having been on it for 7 + years) makes it viable a lil too self serving for its own good but not too much on its own...
a regular amount
also + Show Spoiler +
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Germany25638 Posts
fluidrone is and remains a mystery
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So what is this design called? This forum layout that we have on TL.net and other competitive video game sites? It hasn't changed in a long time, but I guess that's just because you don't fix what ain't broke.
Many official game forums used to have something similar to this, but they've mostly sacrificed function for form:
1. Bethesda - One of the worst I've seen. The WYSIWYG editor doesn't match the final result, and there's no way to disable the enhanced editor. 2. Blizzard - Terrible but at least it's integrated to your Battle.net account. So still terrible.
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Hyrule18714 Posts
The design is called "it's 1998 and tables are cool". The sister sites have the better (properly done) layout, and one day we will too.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51300 Posts
Reason this place is so nice is because KadaverBB keeps us all safe with his Mjolnir <3 but its great to see its being noticed by users, i to love how TL isn't that bashing and people dont resort to silly degrading wording when we are debated ideas. Even in the football thread where us jocks are known for silly arguments we are very reasonable :D
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The forum vets who could throw their weight around to bully new people don't post that often. I guess if you stay long enough, you will get bullied by incontrol.
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I have pondered this as well. I think there are three principle reasons:
1. The final arbiters of the site, at least in the early years (who I presume were Nazgul and Drone), actively cared about preventing toxicity.
2. StarCraft is a game where you can not honestly blame "allied" players (teammates) for your losing streak.
3. Harsh moderation. I think this is the most important factor. Moderators must be harsh and also reasonably fair in warning, temp-banning and perma-banning. Having more-than-sufficient numbers of volunteer moderators is essential to fostering a good community where anonymity is the norm. If in doubt: swing the hammer! Only perma-banning should be subject to careful consideration (unless it is spam).
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 29 2017 22:37 tofucake wrote: The design is called "it's 1998 and tables are cool". The sister sites have the better (properly done) layout, and one day we will too. Nah we killed all the tables, now there's just css to make things look like there are 1998 tables.
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Hyrule18714 Posts
Most of the tables. There's still a couple in there
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lol this is for real? fantastic
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It's simple. We have the almighty TL.net Bot.
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On June 02 2017 21:41 R1CH wrote: It's simple. We have the almighty TL.net Bot. The only reason why we're not assholes is because a robot controls and maintains our mood and behavior? That doesn't sound good.
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On June 02 2017 21:41 R1CH wrote: It's simple. We have the almighty TL.net Bot.
Is this how us mere mortals must refer to you as now?
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As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy.
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it's mostly because all the bad things you have in mind are all hidden away in a single thread where old people constantly bully each other and make demeaning comments about the rest. for your own benefit I won't tell you which one it is.
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On June 03 2017 00:47 ZenithM wrote: As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy. The honesty is very refreshing.
Many competitive gaming forums pretend to be fair but are actually very cliquish and insular. TeamLiquid's forums goes out of its way to say that it's not a democracy, and outright admits that popular posters/progamers are favored, but in practice, this is one of the fairest and most open forums for competitive gaming.
It's like those protagonists who insist that they are not good people when they're actually among the most virtuous characters in their stories: Ciaphas Cain, the Doctor, etc.
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On June 03 2017 00:47 ZenithM wrote: As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy. Even though I agree with you, most of the well liked people made a lot of active contributes for the site, which can't be said for most of the banned people.
Take me for instance, I got banned a lot and still only make pseudo intellectual shit posts all day.
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I last visited this site four years ago and I had no idea the community was still kicking. I spent so much time here discussing video games and getting into flame wars over Mafia. I stopped visiting because I started college, but man oh man, now that I'm finished I am excited to be part of this awesome community again. Maybe it's just nostalgia goggles but the memories and friendships I made on this website are far greater than what I thought possible on the internet.
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Osaka26925 Posts
On June 06 2017 14:07 PaqMan wrote: I last visited this site four years ago and I had no idea the community was still kicking. I spent so much time here discussing video games and getting into flame wars over Mafia. I stopped visiting because I started college, but man oh man, now that I'm finished I am excited to be part of this awesome community again. Maybe it's just nostalgia goggles but the memories and friendships I made on this website are far greater than what I thought possible on the internet.
Yeah, it's crazy huh.
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lol, Mani is back. I say let's have all the oldies post in this thread now for good ol' times sake.
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Germany25638 Posts
On June 03 2017 00:47 ZenithM wrote: As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy.
The last time I actioned you was like 4 years ago
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TLADT24917 Posts
On June 08 2017 01:42 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2017 00:47 ZenithM wrote: As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy. The last time I actioned you was like 4 years ago "you're always on my mind" ~
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Netherlands19120 Posts
Bans for the Banbotgod!
And yeah, made quite a few mates here which I still see, hang out with IRL and or game with today. Been 12 years now that I've hung on TL and even longer that I've known alot of people I still see around here today from our early Bnet days.
Special place and deserves taking care of by all of us to keep it that way.
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On June 08 2017 18:31 Nyovne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Bans for the Banbotgod!
And yeah, made quite a few mates here which I still see, hang out with IRL and or game with today. Been 12 years now that I've hung on TL and even longer that I've known alot of people I still see around here today from our early Bnet days. Special place and deserves taking care of by all of us to keep it that way. That is the sole difference between user and member i believe, To have or to make a good tl <3
On June 07 2017 17:20 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 14:07 PaqMan wrote: I last visited this site four years ago and I had no idea the community was still kicking. I spent so much time here discussing video games and getting into flame wars over Mafia. I stopped visiting because I started college, but man oh man, now that I'm finished I am excited to be part of this awesome community again. Maybe it's just nostalgia goggles but the memories and friendships I made on this website are far greater than what I thought possible on the internet. Yeah, it's crazy huh.
On June 08 2017 01:42 KadaverBB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2017 00:47 ZenithM wrote: As a recurrent "victim" of the moderation (and in particular my boy KadaverBB), I feel I can say that's what's keeping the site safe and friendly. Maybe too safe and too friendly at times, but that's a meager price to pay.
To add to your list of adjectives, OP, I think "oligarchic" kind of applies to TL too. If you're part of that circle of popular posters, mods, writers and whatnot and their friends, you're fine, but if you're new, you'll be banned very quickly if you don't conform very closely to the rules. TL is being very honest about that too, as they often say, it's not a democracy. The last time I actioned you was like 4 years ago Mani "actioned" me 7 years ago <3 nostalgia for the win <3+ Show Spoiler +he literally made me pop my forum cherry he made me who i am on tl 7 years later am i still disturbing the tl shi? my signature was indeed "have and make good tl" for an adso lilemo while
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Canada13372 Posts
On June 10 2017 00:45 XsebT wrote: Where's Chill?
His old bones ache
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