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Braavos36362 Posts
On March 01 2010 22:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 22:02 Twisted wrote:On March 01 2010 21:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 16:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On March 01 2010 16:15 Xeris wrote: I do understand the cover story, it was just a silly one. TBH I don't think it was bad at all for how instantaneously they needed one. Anyway, great event overall the only thing I thought was bad was seeding basically 1/4th of the money positions to people who did good in the previous tournament. I mean when we look at Draco he didn't practice and just showed up to take a free 250$ and then said he quits which seems unfair to give someone money for his previous accomplishments. This keeps getting brought up, but afaik, Draco played a lot of iccup games in preparation for TSL. Him losing 0-3 doesn't mean he did not practice. It wasn't so much the results. I just used that as a crude example. Generally I didn't like seeding that many people just right into money. I just felt like it could have ruined the quality and was wondering what you guys were saying about it behind the scenes. I never really saw it talked about. So why did you guys decide to Seed into Ro16 instead of Ro48? I am interested by the discussion behind it. We seeded into Ro16 because we promised them seeds into the Ro16. If you take a look at how our seeds did:
JF: finished #4, beat a lot of "in shape" players like Terran and White-Ra Draco: lost badly, but lost to our 3rd place finisher Brat: lost in Ro16, but lost to our runner-up
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On March 01 2010 07:52 Hot_Bid wrote: Secondly, I feel that errors are magnified, since things going right is the "norm." For instance, a situation where users helped us improve was the thread about obs/caster coordination (criticizing us). It was something we definitely improved upon as the tournament went along. Our obs, casters, and others really focused on this problem. We may have argued with one or two bad apples who were being idiots in the thread, but we did accept the point -- the obs/caster sync had to get better. And it did, as evidenced by the lack of comment/complaint about it ever since then. Once it got better, nobody mentioned it again (as expected).
Another example would be the mass of people claiming "imba!! idra and ret shouldn't play, they are progamers, its completely not fair and none of the other players have a chance." Now, those people look pretty stupid, but obviously they aren't going to make a thread "Sorry for whining so much, I was wrong to say other players had no chance against these two." Similarly, nobody is going to make a thread "wow the caster audio didn't drop at all during semis and finals!" because these sorts of things only get highlighted when things go wrong.
All that said, we enjoyed it tremendously. It was a huge learning experience for us as well, and I'm sure the next TSL (whether its for SC2 or not) will have another great leap forward in every aspect. I'm also very happy PS sponsored us -- they were the perfect sponsor. They were very professional, worked with us on many things, and let us sort through any errors we had. Thanks to them, and of course to everyone that watched.
this so much. i have some experience running tournaments and doing other administrative stuff for a different internet game, and it is honestly one of the most thankless jobs ever. the vast majority of players just bitched and moaned about any nitpicky fault they could find; if everything went smoothly, they just chilled and reaped the benefits. fortunately the sc/tl community seems to be a bit better about that in gen, but there are still a good number of these "bad apples" intent on causing a scene.
that said, congrats to the winner, and much love to tl+ps.com for a tremendous tournament!!
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On March 01 2010 23:43 mijellin wrote: this so much. i have some experience running tournaments and doing other administrative stuff for a different internet game, and it is honestly one of the most thankless jobs ever. the vast majority of players just bitched and moaned about any nitpicky fault they could find; if everything went smoothly, they just chilled and reaped the benefits. fortunately the sc/tl community seems to be a bit better about that in gen, but there are still a good number of these "bad apples" intent on causing a scene.
that said, congrats to the winner, and much love to tl+ps.com for a tremendous tournament!!
I have never run a tournament or anything like it because I believe it is a thankless job like you say (also I would suck). I need money or thanks most of the time, rarely the work itself is reward enough and therefore I don't do it. I am glad there are people like you who does though. The problem is that you should really start to think WHY you do it if you have to be defensive about mistakes or bad work. You don't get paid, you don't get appreciation... What is it then? You obviously do it for something and that is obviously reward enough since you do it...
The point beeing that the line "we do it for free, without pay or anything so you should be greatful" always can be countered with "you do it voluntarily though and there is obviously some sort of reward that is enough for you."
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Thanks to TL.net, Pokerstrategy.com and all the contestors for an awesome tournament!!! Had a lot of fun watching it! (Looking forward to TSL 3!)
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I was just wondering if there's a Mondragon interview anywhere? It would really be nice to hear his side of the story as well. Eventhough he lost, he played an amazing match and the games were tight. He was well ahead with 2-0 and the third game was on a knife's edge. I'm sure we'd all like to hear from him.
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On March 01 2010 23:55 Krigstar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 23:43 mijellin wrote: this so much. i have some experience running tournaments and doing other administrative stuff for a different internet game, and it is honestly one of the most thankless jobs ever. the vast majority of players just bitched and moaned about any nitpicky fault they could find; if everything went smoothly, they just chilled and reaped the benefits. fortunately the sc/tl community seems to be a bit better about that in gen, but there are still a good number of these "bad apples" intent on causing a scene.
that said, congrats to the winner, and much love to tl+ps.com for a tremendous tournament!! I have never run a tournament or anything like it because I believe it is a thankless job like you say (also I would suck). I need money or thanks most of the time, rarely the work itself is reward enough and therefore I don't do it. I am glad there are people like you who does though. The problem is that you should really start to think WHY you do it if you have to be defensive about mistakes or bad work. You don't get paid, you don't get appreciation... What is it then? You obviously do it for something and that is obviously reward enough since you do it... The point beeing that the line "we do it for free, without pay or anything so you should be greatful" always can be countered with "you do it voluntarily though and there is obviously some sort of reward that is enough for you."
well there is an inherent reward in bringing something to the community and knowing that people are enjoying your efforts. i don't mean that in an entirely altruistic way. tangible contribution is sort of selfishly gratifying.
on the other hand, from the perspective of the administrator, he puts in SO MUCH work for free to make all of this a reality; why can't the participants just show some gratitude and appreciation once in a while? saying thanks doesn't cost any money either! this issue only compounds if/when the community not only doesn't say thanks, but complains and moans about trivial details.
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awesome TSL. thanks a lot guys!
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On March 01 2010 23:14 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 22:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 22:02 Twisted wrote:On March 01 2010 21:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 16:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On March 01 2010 16:15 Xeris wrote: I do understand the cover story, it was just a silly one. TBH I don't think it was bad at all for how instantaneously they needed one. Anyway, great event overall the only thing I thought was bad was seeding basically 1/4th of the money positions to people who did good in the previous tournament. I mean when we look at Draco he didn't practice and just showed up to take a free 250$ and then said he quits which seems unfair to give someone money for his previous accomplishments. This keeps getting brought up, but afaik, Draco played a lot of iccup games in preparation for TSL. Him losing 0-3 doesn't mean he did not practice. It wasn't so much the results. I just used that as a crude example. Generally I didn't like seeding that many people just right into money. I just felt like it could have ruined the quality and was wondering what you guys were saying about it behind the scenes. I never really saw it talked about. So why did you guys decide to Seed into Ro16 instead of Ro48? I am interested by the discussion behind it. We seeded into Ro16 because we promised them seeds into the Ro16. If you take a look at how our seeds did: All I needed to hear :D I didn't realize it was a prize from last TSL tournament.
JF: finished #4, beat a lot of "in shape" players like Terran and White-Ra Draco: lost badly, but lost to our 3rd place finisher Brat: lost in Ro16, but lost to our runner-up
I wasn't disputing the results. Draco did lose to the third place guy, but the games weren't even slightly impressive. Thanks for the answer though HB, were this tournies top 3 seeded into TSL3 as well?
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That was just great. I've been away from TL and the BW scene for more than 2 years and it's amazing to see ppl still competing and just having interest in the non-korean scene.
Congratulations !
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Yep I think it was quite the good tournament as well! Maybe not the same hype etc that the first TSL but still one of the best foreign tournaments ever (the best?). The price money was off the hook too
A couple of things I would like to bring up:
I know it's probably not possible but the distance in time between the games being played hardly makes it seem like a tournament. It's more like a couple of games here and there and no continuity. Then again this might be an impossible obstacle to move around so it's no ones fault really. Real life happens etc
Some casting was quite bad; ie some of the later casts by Tastosis were joke-fests with no real quality to them. It was quite immature and it got to the point where I turned off the sound because it felt like they weren't even watching the games, just competing in being the funniest in some sort of constant friendly power struggle they got going on. I know it's 5 am in Seoul but seriously though, casting Starcraft is not rocket science after all, which Tastosis definately showed us. They are both amazing on their own or with DJWheat but together it doesn't really work. I was disappointed.
Chill/day9 worked much better and it's not because they are better casters than Tastosis but maybe they took the whole thing more seriously or their personalities just create a calm, relaxed atmosphere. I dunno. Sure there are some jokes, and hey that's fine lol! But they are much more into the game in general and discuss strategies and the things that happen in the game more.
In case anyone misunderstands this post. I think all these 4 casters are great. Tasteless for his enthusiasm, Artosis for his passion for SC, Chill for creative and insightful logical reasoning, and Day9 for being an eloquent and entertaining/funny speaker who loves SC.
I definately wonder how Tasteless/Chill or Artosis/Day9 would turn out.
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On March 02 2010 02:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2010 23:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On March 01 2010 22:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 22:02 Twisted wrote:On March 01 2010 21:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 16:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On March 01 2010 16:15 Xeris wrote: I do understand the cover story, it was just a silly one. TBH I don't think it was bad at all for how instantaneously they needed one. Anyway, great event overall the only thing I thought was bad was seeding basically 1/4th of the money positions to people who did good in the previous tournament. I mean when we look at Draco he didn't practice and just showed up to take a free 250$ and then said he quits which seems unfair to give someone money for his previous accomplishments. This keeps getting brought up, but afaik, Draco played a lot of iccup games in preparation for TSL. Him losing 0-3 doesn't mean he did not practice. It wasn't so much the results. I just used that as a crude example. Generally I didn't like seeding that many people just right into money. I just felt like it could have ruined the quality and was wondering what you guys were saying about it behind the scenes. I never really saw it talked about. So why did you guys decide to Seed into Ro16 instead of Ro48? I am interested by the discussion behind it. We seeded into Ro16 because we promised them seeds into the Ro16. If you take a look at how our seeds did: All I needed to hear :D I didn't realize it was a prize from last TSL tournament. Show nested quote + JF: finished #4, beat a lot of "in shape" players like Terran and White-Ra Draco: lost badly, but lost to our 3rd place finisher Brat: lost in Ro16, but lost to our runner-up
I wasn't disputing the results. Draco did lose to the third place guy, but the games weren't even slightly impressive. Thanks for the answer though HB, were this tournies top 3 seeded into TSL3 as well?
Draco was actually in quite good shape - if you watched his Nostalgia games and his other tournament matches around this time he was looking REALLY impressive. He was also streaming his practice games a lot
I think it just happened that he had an off day when he was playing Sen and produced mediocre games. Everyone has their bad days, Draco just had his at an inopportune moment.
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thanks to TL, PS.com, the casters and all the players
really entertaining event... mondragons games were always so funny once he got defilers keep the good work up
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On March 02 2010 03:18 Foucault wrote: Yep I think it was quite the good tournament as well! Maybe not the same hype etc that the first TSL but still one of the best foreign tournaments ever (the best?). The price money was off the hook too
A couple of things I would like to bring up:
I know it's probably not possible but the distance in time between the games being played hardly makes it seem like a tournament. It's more like a couple of games here and there and no continuity. Then again this might be an impossible obstacle to move around so it's no ones fault really. Real life happens etc
Some casting was quite bad; ie some of the later casts by Tastosis were joke-fests with no real quality to them. It was quite immature and it got to the point where I turned off the sound because it felt like they weren't even watching the games, just competing in being the funniest in some sort of constant friendly power struggle they got going on. I know it's 5 am in Seoul but seriously though, casting Starcraft is not rocket science after all, which Tastosis definately showed us. They are both amazing on their own or with DJWheat but together it doesn't really work. I was disappointed.
Chill/day9 worked much better and it's not because they are better casters than Tastosis but maybe they took the whole thing more seriously or their personalities just create a calm, relaxed atmosphere. I dunno. Sure there are some jokes, and hey that's fine lol! But they are much more into the game in general and discuss strategies and the things that happen in the game more.
In case anyone misunderstands this post. I think all these 4 casters are great. Tasteless for his enthusiasm, Artosis for his passion for SC, Chill for creative and insightful logical reasoning, and Day9 for being an eloquent and entertaining/funny speaker who loves SC.
I definately wonder how Tasteless/Chill or Artosis/Day9 would turn out.
I... don't understand how you can say that. I didn't feel that way about the Tasteless/Artosis casts at all.
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On March 02 2010 03:26 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 02:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 23:14 Hot_Bid wrote:On March 01 2010 22:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 22:02 Twisted wrote:On March 01 2010 21:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:On March 01 2010 16:17 EvilTeletubby wrote:On March 01 2010 16:15 Xeris wrote: I do understand the cover story, it was just a silly one. TBH I don't think it was bad at all for how instantaneously they needed one. Anyway, great event overall the only thing I thought was bad was seeding basically 1/4th of the money positions to people who did good in the previous tournament. I mean when we look at Draco he didn't practice and just showed up to take a free 250$ and then said he quits which seems unfair to give someone money for his previous accomplishments. This keeps getting brought up, but afaik, Draco played a lot of iccup games in preparation for TSL. Him losing 0-3 doesn't mean he did not practice. It wasn't so much the results. I just used that as a crude example. Generally I didn't like seeding that many people just right into money. I just felt like it could have ruined the quality and was wondering what you guys were saying about it behind the scenes. I never really saw it talked about. So why did you guys decide to Seed into Ro16 instead of Ro48? I am interested by the discussion behind it. We seeded into Ro16 because we promised them seeds into the Ro16. If you take a look at how our seeds did: All I needed to hear :D I didn't realize it was a prize from last TSL tournament. JF: finished #4, beat a lot of "in shape" players like Terran and White-Ra Draco: lost badly, but lost to our 3rd place finisher Brat: lost in Ro16, but lost to our runner-up
I wasn't disputing the results. Draco did lose to the third place guy, but the games weren't even slightly impressive. Thanks for the answer though HB, were this tournies top 3 seeded into TSL3 as well? Draco was actually in quite good shape - if you watched his Nostalgia games and his other tournament matches around this time he was looking REALLY impressive. He was also streaming his practice games a lot I think it just happened that he had an off day when he was playing Sen and produced mediocre games. Everyone has their bad days, Draco just had his at an inopportune moment. I actually didn't even know he was active lately. His last active period I remember was last TSL and some guy posting a stream of him which I never saw get truly active so I assumed he quit again.
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I really want to thanks the staff for this most amazing. TSL1 at best is a bit shadowy in my mind, but as far as I recall this one was much much more impressive. The casters were really great, we had pretty amazing games, and an epic final.
On the subject of obs/caster sync, I did notice how much it had improved in the later casts. I remember a few times saying to myself "oh, they are really working together great now" which I dont remember doing in the earlier part of t he TSL. So great job there.
Also, on the spoiler subject, I was one of those that didn't get spoiled by the stream but almost got spoiler by the post that was linked in IRC, Started to read the post, saw what it was about, and thought: "oh well, whether its true or not, i really dont wanna know" so i stopped reading But I guess for those that were spoiled it was the best that could be done at the moment.
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On March 02 2010 07:47 Zozma wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2010 03:18 Foucault wrote: Yep I think it was quite the good tournament as well! Maybe not the same hype etc that the first TSL but still one of the best foreign tournaments ever (the best?). The price money was off the hook too
A couple of things I would like to bring up:
I know it's probably not possible but the distance in time between the games being played hardly makes it seem like a tournament. It's more like a couple of games here and there and no continuity. Then again this might be an impossible obstacle to move around so it's no ones fault really. Real life happens etc
Some casting was quite bad; ie some of the later casts by Tastosis were joke-fests with no real quality to them. It was quite immature and it got to the point where I turned off the sound because it felt like they weren't even watching the games, just competing in being the funniest in some sort of constant friendly power struggle they got going on. I know it's 5 am in Seoul but seriously though, casting Starcraft is not rocket science after all, which Tastosis definately showed us. They are both amazing on their own or with DJWheat but together it doesn't really work. I was disappointed.
Chill/day9 worked much better and it's not because they are better casters than Tastosis but maybe they took the whole thing more seriously or their personalities just create a calm, relaxed atmosphere. I dunno. Sure there are some jokes, and hey that's fine lol! But they are much more into the game in general and discuss strategies and the things that happen in the game more.
In case anyone misunderstands this post. I think all these 4 casters are great. Tasteless for his enthusiasm, Artosis for his passion for SC, Chill for creative and insightful logical reasoning, and Day9 for being an eloquent and entertaining/funny speaker who loves SC.
I definately wonder how Tasteless/Chill or Artosis/Day9 would turn out.
I... don't understand how you can say that. I didn't feel that way about the Tasteless/Artosis casts at all. I did. I really enjoyed the Chill/Day9 casts because they actually explained what was happening in the game and why it happened. If Tasteless/Artosis also did this I missed it and it was to a much lesser degree and totally snowed under by the jokes.
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The final was excellent. I loved Nony's Mass DT zealot opening. It was so pimp.
Casting in the Finals and the 3rd place match was excellent! [though can't help to think what it would have been like if Canada wasn't playing for the gold in hockey].
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United States40776 Posts
TSL brought the UK community together for the first time in the history of bw. I just wanna say thank you to everyone who made this possible.
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Thanks for getting the VODs up almost instantly! For those of us, who rely on those torrents really appreciate the speed at which they become available. Going to be spreading these vods to as many South African starcraft players as possible!
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I'm especially glad that Nony won, that no-gg was quite anti-climatic, but still, i think that money is in really good hands there.
I'm also happy for Mondragon, he almost won this, but Nony could get his shit together and turn the series around. It would have been funny if Mondi wins this TSL, in which most ppl counted him out, after losing the first one where he was the favorite, or amongst the favorites at worst.
I feel bad about Ret though... And white-ra should have beaten JF i feel But still, quite satisfing results overall
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