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Power Rank 11/01/2009 - Page 10

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 All
 
 evanthebouncy!   United States. November 03 2009 12:06. Posts 10737
Profile Blog # 
Flash playing like Boxer there!!! WOW
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
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 Jayme   United States. November 03 2009 12:09. Posts 4925
Profile Blog # 
I can pretty much agree with this ranking. Flash being Number 1 (undisputed even) is the best part of it.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
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  Waxangel   United States. November 03 2009 12:26. Posts 19168Profile Blog # 
the main problem with giving a player credit for their past performances is that skill decay over time cannot be predicted and measured by any reliable standard -- so people determine it almost entirely subjectively
Hey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
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 cokencheese   Philippines. November 03 2009 13:57. Posts 748
Profile # 
When I think about JD's October performance my mind goes to how effortlessly he destroyed Kal in his only non-ZvZ matchup so far. As for his other matches, I believe any other Zerg would've also had a good chance of losing the ZvZs JD lost due to the nature of the matchup. Just because JD had a few uncharacteristic losses in the most unforgiving matchup in the game doesn't mean that Calm has suddenly become scarier than him. Calm lost to RoRo in an ace too, you know.

I don't think there would even be an issue here if Oz let JD play their Ace matches for them. Goddamn Killer.
 
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 MuffinDude   United States. November 03 2009 16:09. Posts 3837
Profile Blog # 

On November 03 2009 12:26 Waxangel wrote:
the main problem with giving a player credit for their past performances is that skill decay over time cannot be predicted and measured by any reliable standard -- so people determine it almost entirely subjectively

This is why jaedong in second place is just unreasonable.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
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 Avidkeystamper   United States. November 03 2009 16:12. Posts 8551
Profile Blog # 
The choice of the word decay is interesting. Also @ MuffinDude, if you agree with Waxangel, you're agreeing that there's nothing inherently wrong with Jaedong at second.
Jaedong
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 tedster   November 03 2009 16:36. Posts 897
Profile # 
Jaedong's play over the past 3 months (aggregate) has been worse than Calm's. Calm dominated his MSL at least as well as JD dominated the OSL (beating JD in the process) and both were monsters in PL at the end of the season (with a few disappointing Playoff performances). Now coming out the gate this season Calm is clearly playing better than JD. And while it matters little, Calm played better last month in random games and exhibitions than JD.

Altogether, that's an entire quarter where Calm has been at least as good as JD at all times, and often (especially recently), better. When you look at it this way, it's pretty clear how the rankings should unfold. There is very little reason to rank JD above Calm at this moment, even if Calm has had a few shaky wins - JD has had shaky losses, after all. I think ranking JD below #3 would be a farce, but ranking him above that when he has not really shown any dominance whatsoever this season is somewhat dishonest.
Last edit: 2009-11-03 16:37:44
jerk
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 kvilx   Poland. November 03 2009 16:46. Posts 198
Profile Blog # 
If this is Power Rank based on MONTHLY performance, then I'dont get Jaedong sitting over Calm, and Hyuk placed below both Effort and Fantasy. BO loss DOES matter, especially in JD's case, when he was schooled by Hyuk himself in PL Finals why not to go 12 Hatch against average Zergs. And Hyuk won straight-up with both Jaedong and Effort, while Fantasy really did nothing special (he even lost to UpMagic, AFAIK).

For me:
1. (T)Flash
2. (Z)Calm
3. (P)Stork
4. (Z)Jaedong
5. (P)Bisu
6. (Z)Hyuk
7. (Z)Shine
8. (T)fantasy
9. (Z)EffOrt
10. (P)Pusan

EDIT: And Luxury deserves nothing but NCNC, his games in OSL & MSL were horrible.
Last edit: 2009-11-04 03:04:04
Day[9] For President
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  Magic84   Russian Federation. November 03 2009 17:41. Posts 1381Profile # 

On November 03 2009 16:46 kvilx wrote:
If this is Power Rank based on MONTHLY performance, then I'dont get Jaedong sitting over Calm, and Hyuk placed below both Effort and Fantasy. BO losses DOES matter, especially in JD's case, when he was schooled by Hyuk himself in PL Finals why not to go 12 Hatch against average Zergs. And Hyuk won straight-up with both Jaedong and Effort, while Fantasy really did nothing special (he even lost to UpMagic, AFAIK).


The PR writer changed again recently and it's top 10 best players right now with big emphasis on starleagues, not top 10 players who were doing well last month. Elo is already a decent rank based on recent performances, although you can't see how many places players rose/fell during a monthly period. JWD was doing well with his thing, especially with all the details and youtube links, but it is a bit different now.
Last edit: 2009-11-03 18:28:14
 
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  MrHoon  *   November 03 2009 18:58. Posts 8573Profile Blog # 
LOL this is the nicest PR Discussion I have ever been to hahahah
beepbeepboop
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  Waxangel   United States. November 03 2009 20:42. Posts 19168Profile Blog # 

On November 03 2009 16:09 MuffinDude wrote:

Show nested quote +


This is why jaedong in second place is just unreasonable.


I'm not saying it's right, but I'm not saying it's wrong either.

I guess I'm just saying it's hard to decide
Hey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
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 Glioburd   France. November 03 2009 21:30. Posts 805
Profile # 
Nice PR but I'm surprised not to see Ruby in CBNC at least.
"You should hate loosing, but you should never fear defeat." NaDa.If you're struggling in TvP, watch me play. And do the complete opposite of what I'm doing. ID : glio[AoV]
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 wswordsmen   United States. November 04 2009 00:04. Posts 976
Profile # 

On November 03 2009 13:57 cokencheese wrote:
When I think about JD's October performance my mind goes to how effortlessly he destroyed Kal in his only non-ZvZ matchup so far. As for his other matches, I believe any other Zerg would've also had a good chance of losing the ZvZs JD lost due to the nature of the matchup. Just because JD had a few uncharacteristic losses in the most unforgiving matchup in the game doesn't mean that Calm has suddenly become scarier than him. Calm lost to RoRo in an ace too, you know.

I don't think there would even be an issue here if Oz let JD play their Ace matches for them. Goddamn Killer.

You are forgeting that Jaedong was a god ZvZ to the point people joked about JvZ. Last month he was shown to be very much mortal. Where before he had won 12 hatch vs 9 pool, he lost vs 815.
 
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  AzureEye   United States. November 04 2009 01:21. Posts 1360Profile Blog # 

On November 03 2009 09:08 dannyd102 wrote:
After reading the PR and all the posts, I can say for sure that this is one of the most disputed PRs since now. And probably there is something wrong with this PR if so many people can't agree with it.

First of all, I think that the PR was meant to be a list of the best performing players over the last month, not over the last 2 or 3 months and not in the next 2 or 3 months. So, if I am right, it means that JD being placed at second place is completely wrong (I will not argue with the other positions, since this one is the most out of place according to the below criteria).

Regardless of which approach you will chose: results , number of matches, game consistency, quality of the played games, you can't get JD on 2nd place for the month of October.

Maybe he will be on 2nd place or even on the 1st place in November, but October was a bad month for JD when you compare his achievements to other players that are ranked bellow him.

I can accept that this was a mistake that the author made for and unknown reason, but with PRs like this particular one, the value and relevance of the PR will decrease.

There was a time when we used to report the value and "power" of a player to the PR instead of the KESPA ranking, I think that this will not be valid anymore with PRs like this.

So, please take in consideration the facts when writing the future PRs and not some speculations or the glorious past of some of the players.

Anyway, I would like to thank you for the effort of maintaining the PR (even if sometimes creates such a big debate).



PR is not 100% about monthly performance. It is a combination of that plus the overall skill of the players. Recent performance of a few games =/= Overall skill. Lets say Flash lost 2 games to cheese this week. Would you consider his skill any less than what you consider now? Nope

HOW a person loses and what opponents he faces, combined with MU, event, all factor in. For JD's case, it was ZvZ (luck based MU) with couple of BO losses. I see JD in Top 3 perfectly reasonable. Personally I would have ranked Calm #2 Jaedong #3 but its not that much different.
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
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  ghostWriter   United States. November 04 2009 03:02. Posts 3302Profile Blog # 
Well, Jaedong did lose to hyuk while doing the same build order. Even if the matchup has a lot to do with luck, it was a skill game that he lost.
Sullifam
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 RainmanMP   United States. November 04 2009 03:15. Posts 1541
Profile # 
Flash hwaiting!
이영호 FIGHTING! Die Hard KT Rolster and Flash fan.
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 StorrZerg   United States. November 04 2009 03:40. Posts 8998
Profile Blog # 

On November 04 2009 03:02 ghostWriter wrote:
Well, Jaedong did lose to hyuk while doing the same build order. Even if the matchup has a lot to do with luck, it was a skill game that he lost.



hyuk needs to improve his zvt quite a bit before he should be above top 5
Coach/ Manager for Team Fin Follow me on twitter@StorrZerg
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 ReketSomething   United States. November 04 2009 05:20. Posts 4017
Profile Blog # 

On November 04 2009 03:40 StorrZerg wrote:

Show nested quote +




hyuk needs to improve his zvt quite a bit before he should be above top 5



His ZvT.....is SKT Zerg Style. =O
I love Jaedong! :3
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  DreaM)XeRO   Korea (South). November 04 2009 05:34. Posts 4667Profile Blog # 

On November 04 2009 05:20 ReketSomething wrote:

Show nested quote +



His ZvT.....is SKT Zerg Style. =O

he's gonna rape Flash in the SKT vs KT game
just watch
cw)minsean(ru
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 Iplaythings   Denmark. November 04 2009 06:17. Posts 7085
Profile Blog # 

On November 04 2009 05:34 DreaM)XeRO wrote:

Show nested quote +


he's gonna rape Flash in the SKT vs KT game
just watch

Strongest TvZ in the world... vs someone above average... Wow, blind fanboyism much? Flash has allways been consistently good since his peak with only dropping.
Hyuk only showed average - and i say average - zvp and very good zvz (I'll give you that).
But he ain't gonna beat Leta / Flash / Fantasy at his present condition unless shown better.
In the woods, there lurks..
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