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 Pigsquirrel United States. November 03 2009 07:35. Posts 9 | Profile |
I have been playing on iCCup a decent while now (P) and, to be honest, I suck. Here is one replay- i plan on adding more very soon. I just want a few hints on what/how i could do to play better. I am not that focused on winning, just not feeling like just have to sit there and take it.
Things I care about:
Initial BOs race in matchups, pylon/forge/gate/nexus timing in the early game.
Templar or reaver?
Stargate
Other late-game tech decisions
Things I know I suck at
"sim-city"
micro
Don't point this kind of mistake- I already know about them.
Replays:
PvZ on Desti Known mistakes- Epic wall-in fail, being an idiot and throwing away the shuttle and templar
PvZ on Desti [2] This game I feel like I should've won, but didn't. Thinking about it now, I think that I didn't move in when I had the advantage.. I was actually winning but I didn't know what to do. I started to consider arbiters (really stupid in hindsight), but then it all went downhill. Any advice?Last edit: 2009-11-03 08:16:28 |
| | According to a new state education policy, 100% of students must be above the 40 percentile in math and reading. Fail? |
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 ajmbek Italy. November 03 2009 07:43. Posts 49 | Profile |
dont use shuttles, easy to lose, and requires apm and multitast to use good
macro is way better then micro
walling in is important, play just a few maps where you know how to do that until you dont learn
templar or river? lol? templar every single game, if hidra storm immidiately, if muta arkon, storm a bit later
late game? --> rivers at 4th expo
sim-city in pvz is easy, you can do the same at every map with eseptions for chapung rejong and maybe 1 more: fe wall in, look at liquipedia, 2nd pilon if needed in strategic position like on destination or some times on hbr put near minerals that can be mined from enemy drone, if not needed that on nexus line, then add tech from side of minerals and gates from other side, you can add pilons in a line and gates in 2 lines, then you can put same pilons at corners to easyer/faster scaut drops
(: |
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 BabyRhino United States. November 03 2009 08:05. Posts 174 | Profile Blog |
| i think at this point is more about following the BO correctly and being able to macro. your mechanics is probably not where it should be. and read some recommended guides. |
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| Pigsquirrel United States. November 03 2009 08:21. Posts 9 | Profile |
templar or river? lol? templar every single game, if hidra storm immidiately, if muta arkon, storm a bit later
late game? --> rivers at 4th expo
thx a lot, this is what I want to know
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| | According to a new state education policy, 100% of students must be above the 40 percentile in math and reading. Fail? |
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 selboN United States. November 03 2009 08:58. Posts 1189 | Profile Blog |
Definitely work on your sim-city. Just establish a system that works for you and generally you can continue to apply it to most maps you'll pvz on. Your build order should be a result of what you scout. Simple examples: If you scout 2 hatch muta, be prepared (add cannons, get stargate up asap). If you scout 3 hatch lair (no second gas) most likely you'll be seeing 5 hatch hydra. Tech to storms asaply and be ready for the oh-so-annoying muta switch for templar snipes. Reavers are very effective late game to protect your expos, especially when defilers come into play. Basically, PvZ is a game of reaction.
+ Show Spoiler +
Didn't get a chance to watch either of your reps yet. I'm on Mac. I'll try to to give them a watch soon as I get on Windows |
| | "That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong) |
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| selboN United States. November 03 2009 09:13. Posts 1189 | Profile Blog |
Ok, watching replay now, I'll just comment as I go:
Rally your probes to your minerals to get optimal mining time
Poor wall-in, this is something that is a minor fix that is essential, be sure to look up a good block
You scouted an overpool and still built 2 cannons first. To get an economic advantage place your nexus based on how fast you can get cannons up before the lings get to your CHOKE.
With your gas the first thing you do is upgrade goon range, bad idea. Goons are not good vs hydras or zerglings, which is what you'll be seeing in the early parts of the game. Even if you were to go for goon/reaver or goon/temp this goon range is still wayyy too early.
Your corsairs sits idle for about 30 seconds before you finally decide to send it to scout to see what your opponent is up to. Send it ASAP, if he is 2 hatch hydraing your corsair will narrowly be able to see it in time, you don't have time to sit. Also, corsairs are rather good at overlord harass, after you scout don't just send it back home.
Work on your macro, you're sitting on 1k 9 minutes into the game. Spend your money as you get it, if all else fails add a gateways! Queuing is bad
Much anything beyond that won't be of much help because the zerg's macro was abysmal. Main thing you need to work on is your mechanics. Spend your minerals, learn to react, and some decent builds down. Anyways, hope this helped. Sorry for the wall of text -.-
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62652
FE Building placement
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Strategy#PvZ_Builds
PvZ buildsLast edit: 2009-11-03 09:16:46 |
| | "That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong) |
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| Pigsquirrel United States. November 03 2009 11:41. Posts 9 | Profile |
| Also, I am mostly looking for which things to improve, not what things I can improve. I know there are 10,000+ things I am doing wrong or inefficiently. I just want to know which of these things would be best for me to work on at my skill level. |
| | According to a new state education policy, 100% of students must be above the 40 percentile in math and reading. Fail? |
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| ArcticxWolf Canada. November 03 2009 11:47. Posts 30 | Profile |
| The most important thing at your level is simply to work on your macro. It doesn't matter what he has if you have a good unit combination and "a lot of shit", as chill puts it. |
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| Pigsquirrel United States. November 03 2009 12:16. Posts 9 | Profile |
On November 03 2009 11:47 ArcticxWolf wrote:
It doesn't matter what he has if you have ... "a lot of shit", as chill puts it.
Best. Advice. Ever. So another question. Good unit combination = Not pure goons. 1:1 goons/zlots? Whats a good rule of thumb for the "lot of shit"?
Sorry if this seems like its turning into a Q and A and Q and A type of thing here...
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| | According to a new state education policy, 100% of students must be above the 40 percentile in math and reading. Fail? |
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| selboN United States. November 03 2009 12:21. Posts 1189 | Profile Blog |
Depends what he uses. Pure hydra -> zealot/templar, Hydra/Lurk -> Goon/templar/few zealot, Muta -> Archon or Corsair, Ultra/Ling ->Goon/Archon/Reaver
I mean that's SUPER vague, it just depends what he's doing/using. You could read up on this match up and watch some replays..... |
| | "That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong) |
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 Empyrean Noobville. November 03 2009 12:28. Posts 6743 | Profile Blog |
On November 03 2009 12:16 Pigsquirrel wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 11:47 ArcticxWolf wrote:
It doesn't matter what he has if you have ... "a lot of shit", as chill puts it.
Best. Advice. Ever. So another question. Good unit combination = Not pure goons. 1:1 goons/zlots? Whats a good rule of thumb for the "lot of shit"? Sorry if this seems like its turning into a Q and A and Q and A type of thing here...
A good unit combination depends on what you see. For example, if you're playing a PvT and see lots of tanks and hardly any Vultures, you'd probably increase the numbers of Zealots relative to Dragoons. If you're playing a PvZ and notice the Zerg is transitioning into Hive play, it's probably better to not produce as many Dragoons and save the gas for Templar/Archons/Reavers.
It all depends on what you need at the moment and what you expect to need as the game goes on. A lot of it comes with experience, which you'll get by playing more. |
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| 3clipse Canada. November 03 2009 13:21. Posts 1274 | Profile Blog |
On November 03 2009 12:16 Pigsquirrel wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 11:47 ArcticxWolf wrote:
It doesn't matter what he has if you have ... "a lot of shit", as chill puts it.
Best. Advice. Ever. So another question. Good unit combination = Not pure goons. 1:1 goons/zlots? Whats a good rule of thumb for the "lot of shit"?
Ok- for a basic composition, I'll use a starting point of 1:1 goons/zealots and a few high templar. Adjust accordingly:
Pure hydra = + zealots, + high templar
Hydra/Lurk = + goons, + high templar
Lurk/Ling = + archon
Muta/Ling = + archon, + zealots
Ultra/Ling = + archon, (+sair, +dt can work as well)
Didn't bother to write things like "-zealots" for hydra/lurk, as I'm sure it's self evident that when the proportion of certain units rise, the proportions of the rest must fall (if you're macroing to full capacity).
Reavers are great vs ANY ground unit, but if you're not confident in your shuttle micro, ht's are more useful offensively. Reavers are still great for expo defense though, especially once defiler tech in in play.
Edit: The point below is a good one. If you're in a situation that requires additional templar and goons yet you're short on gas, cut goons; templar are a priority. It's ok to have more zealots than may be optimal if your gas is required for higher tech.
Edit2: I'm also not implying a ratio of 1:1 zealots to goons at the start of the game. It's just an arbitrary benchmark I'm setting. Since your main issues early game will be with hydras and lings, that tips things towards the zealot-heavy side.Last edit: 2009-11-03 16:32:48 |
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| Ryuu314 United States. November 03 2009 13:21. Posts 87 | Profile |
On November 03 2009 12:16 Pigsquirrel wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 03 2009 11:47 ArcticxWolf wrote:
It doesn't matter what he has if you have ... "a lot of shit", as chill puts it.
Best. Advice. Ever. So another question. Good unit combination = Not pure goons. 1:1 goons/zlots? Whats a good rule of thumb for the "lot of shit"? Sorry if this seems like its turning into a Q and A and Q and A type of thing here...
Generally in PvZ you always want more zealots than goons. Reason being that zealots do more dps to most zerg units. The only time you might want more goons than zealots is if the zerg goes lurkers. Another reason why zealots are often better than goons in PvZ is because the gas is needed elsewhere, most notably in templar tech.
Work on your macro first above all else. Your micro can be gosu, but if you have nothing to micro you're screwed anyways. |
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 KawaiiRice United States. November 05 2009 14:57. Posts 609 | Profile Blog |
On November 03 2009 09:13 selboN wrote:Ok, watching replay now, I'll just comment as I go: Rally your probes to your minerals to get optimal mining time Poor wall-in, this is something that is a minor fix that is essential, be sure to look up a good block You scouted an overpool and still built 2 cannons first. To get an economic advantage place your nexus based on how fast you can get cannons up before the lings get to your CHOKE. With your gas the first thing you do is upgrade goon range, bad idea. Goons are not good vs hydras or zerglings, which is what you'll be seeing in the early parts of the game. Even if you were to go for goon/reaver or goon/temp this goon range is still wayyy too early. Your corsairs sits idle for about 30 seconds before you finally decide to send it to scout to see what your opponent is up to. Send it ASAP, if he is 2 hatch hydraing your corsair will narrowly be able to see it in time, you don't have time to sit. Also, corsairs are rather good at overlord harass, after you scout don't just send it back home. Work on your macro, you're sitting on 1k 9 minutes into the game. Spend your money as you get it, if all else fails add a gateways! Queuing is bad Much anything beyond that won't be of much help because the zerg's macro was abysmal. Main thing you need to work on is your mechanics. Spend your minerals, learn to react, and some decent builds down. Anyways, hope this helped. Sorry for the wall of text -.- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=62652FE Building placement http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Protoss_Strategy#PvZ_BuildsPvZ builds
On November 03 2009 11:41 Pigsquirrel wrote:
Also, I am mostly looking for which things to improve, not what things I can improve. I know there are 10,000+ things I am doing wrong or inefficiently. I just want to know which of these things would be best for me to work on at my skill level.
Basically what selboN said was
On November 03 2009 09:13 selboN wrote:
MECHANICS
If you're not even doing your wallin right and it can be easily fixed why would you brush it off? Poor choice in my opinion.
Edit for the sake of making my post look less like a one-liner: It should be pretty clear that mechanics are essential to making you, arguably, successful, in this game. With the exception of having toi useful talents (joking reference), many, especially koreans, practice the same builds over and over to try and perfect their mechanics. If you choose to ignore the whole concept of mechanics why are you asking for help to improve at all?Last edit: 2009-11-05 15:02:00 |
| | Member of the "Fuck Yeah, Canata !" committee | OSUFAM FIGHTING!! http://osu.ppy.sh/ |
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