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Science battles Government over cannabis

Forum index > General Forum 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
  KwarK   Great Britain. November 04 2009 02:50. Posts 8520Profile Blog 
In the UK the Home Office which deals with policing, security, laws etc has a load of scientific advisory panels which give them expert opinions on their policies. The UK Government has a retarded policy on cannabis (last year it was upgraded to a class B drug (longer prison sentences etc)) and they maintain it's evil.

Unfortunately for them their leading scientific advisor (Prof Nutt) publicly called them out on it last week, stating that there was no scientific evidence backing up the Home Secretary's views on cannabis and that if you were to rank drugs based on harm it would be far below alcohol and nicotene.

Mr Johnson (Home Secretary) fired him for getting involved in the political side of it to which Prof Nutt retorted that the Home Secretary had crossed the same line by getting involved in the scientific side and deliberately misleading the public against scientific advice over the risks involved in cannabis.

The situation has degenerated into a war between a politician whose views on cannabis are not backed up by science and the scientific community who are pissed off. Several more Government scientific advisors have resigned in protest and the scientific view of the Government advisors remains that the Government is wrong. Scientists are accusing the Government of ignoring their advice and politicising their work, using science to rubber stamp political decisions with no care for the facts.


But Labour peer Lord Robert Winston told BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend he was "very surprised and disappointed" by Mr Johnson's actions.

He warned that the government would be ignored if it gave advice to the public that did not take account of scientists' opinions and said Prof Nutt had made a "very reasonable" point about the relative dangers of illegal and legal drugs.

Lord Winston, professor of science and society at Imperial College London, said: "I think that if governments appoint expert advice they shouldn't dismiss it so lightly. I think it shows a rather poor understanding of the value of science."

(Lord Winston is one of the most prominent and respect scientists in the country. In the UK the upper house of our legislative is appointed and cannot be unappointed. Lord Winston is a Labour peer (Lord) so technically a member of the same government as Mr Johnson but was appointed to the House of Lords because of respect for his knowledge).

I'm not sure if something like this has happened before but we are seeing a major scientific rebellion by the Governments own advisors over what is fundamentally a wrong drugs policy. Thus I thought it was worthy of posting, even if it is just as news.
Discuss?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8334774.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8336635.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8336884.stm
Last edit: 2009-11-04 02:50:42
Misrah: by the way Einstein- you can't use sarcasm online." Aegraen: "Don't worry, if things don't change, and change in a respectable manner sometime soon, you will see the second American Revolution, because tyranny in any form, must be fought against."

  Eben   United States. November 04 2009 02:55. Posts 211Profile 
Pretty interesting, I wish I knew more about UK politics to comment more on it though.

Keep us posted on what is happening

  ghostWriter   United States. November 04 2009 02:58. Posts 2185Profile Blog 
politics is rarely rational. in fact, many political decisions seem very counterintuitive, although I'm sure they have good reasons for what they do.
Today I found out her real name. No, I didn't ask her myself; when the class was doing a group assignment I walked to her desk and found her last name on a paper.

  Amber[LighT]   United States. November 04 2009 03:00. Posts 2333Profile 
The sad thing is there is no scientific basis for cannibus legislation even in the United States. I'm surprised they moved it to a class B narcotic since in the states a lot of laws have been relaxed.

Excluding Federal Legislation which has a strong stance against cannibus usage altogether.
Last edit: 2009-11-04 03:04:24
True Mafioso ;)

  Hawk   United States. November 04 2009 03:02. Posts 10241Profile Blog 
I'm glad someone is standing up to the bullshit that comes from the govt., but the poor dude probably just lost an assload of funding. Good for him though in leading the fight
Last Romantic wrote: Your crusade against internet ignorance in that thread is admirable, but I fear you've no chance. Against travis' stupidity God himself would strive in vain.

  Lucktar   United States. November 04 2009 03:09. Posts 291Profile 
Government has invested so much political capital in portraying marijuana as evil and deviant, they can't possibly back down from that position now. In the US, it was an effort to demonize first the Mexicans, who were the primary users of the drugs in the 1920's and 30's, and later the hippies, who were viewed as a dangerous anti-establishment political movement. You got shit like 'Reefer Madness,' bullshit PSA's about marijuana as a supposed 'gateway drug,' and loads of other nonsense. Essentially, the US (and similarly the UK, apparently) has painted itself into a corner, and now they can't back down on cannabis being dangerous, no matter what the science on the matter is.
Loyal Fan of Starcraft to you!

  zizou21   United States. November 04 2009 03:17. Posts 2729Profile 
go science!!
its me, tasteless,s roomate LOL!

  Rotodyne   United States. November 04 2009 03:20. Posts 943Profile 
With more and more pressure from the marijuana legalization movements, it's just a matter of time before the US starts changing the laws. California will be first.

  Diamondback2   United States. November 04 2009 03:21. Posts 160Profile 
Yea marijuana laws in the US are just plain stupid and were created out of racism. Not sure about the UK's.

Any human that says booze or tobacco is less harmful than weed is just misinformed and has bought in to the propaganda.

Sucks for the UK tho, thier laws seem to be getting worse and in the US we are making strides (well maybe more of baby steps) towards ending this pointless prohibition. Hell in MI where I live we have medical laws now!

  fast ball player   November 04 2009 03:24. Posts 204Profile 
that would never happen here in the USA. honest courageous scientists would never be appointed to high positions like that. all the prominent scientists here are bought off by corporations and lobbying groups to say whatever they want them to say.

here cannabis is a schedule 1 drug which would equal class A, in the category of highest danger and no medical use. which everyone knows is so obviously counter to the science facts. but if you read the history of how pot became illegal you have scientists paid off by the textile and alcohol/tobacco industries, that were in competition with the incredibly useful cannabis plant, that testified in court it made you hallucinate and become schizophrenic. just like they'd pay doctors to say smoking is good for you.

the people in charge will use science to make better weapons and more sophisticated marketing and more consumer electronics to sell, but they'll never listen to science to make a reasonable policy that would help the people.

in the usa the democratic party did some online thing where voters could say which issues were most important to them. the NUMBER ONE issue was legalization of cannabis, and obama mocked the suggestion that the 2$ billion a year marijuana black market industry could help the economy if it was made into a legitimate industry and taxed.
Live free or die

  Rotodyne   United States. November 04 2009 03:25. Posts 943Profile 
It's disgusting that there are politicians in office that know absolutely nothing on the subject, and still believe in reefer madness shit. All the other politicians that know the policies are garbage can't do anything because they will endanger their chance at re-election (no balls).
Last edit: 2009-11-04 03:27:23

  Liquid`Drone   Norway. November 04 2009 03:26. Posts 16907Profile 
excellent. there are many things wrong with western society but weed being illegal and alcohol being legal is probably one of the things that make least sense out of anything.
LOLLLL I LAUGH'D SO HARD AT UR 60 IQ COMMENT PLEASE KILL URSELF STONE AGE NOOB.

  Jyvblamo   Canada. November 04 2009 03:28. Posts 4747Profile Blog 
You can't beat science in the long run. A few decades from now (hopefully sooner) everyone will see just how retarded these governments really were.
I posted in BuGzlToOnl\'s thread and all I got was this stupid t-shirt...

  Rotodyne   United States. November 04 2009 03:29. Posts 943Profile 

On November 04 2009 03:26 Liquid`Drone wrote:
excellent. there are many things wrong with western society but weed being illegal and alcohol being legal is probably one of the things that make least sense out of anything.


In the future people are going to look back and wonder what the fuck we were doing.

  KwarK   Great Britain. November 04 2009 03:33. Posts 8520Profile Blog 

On November 04 2009 02:55 Eben wrote:
Pretty interesting, I wish I knew more about UK politics to comment more on it though.

Keep us posted on what is happening


UK politics and political system. Wall of text pending.
+ Show Spoiler +


Any questions, feel free to ask.
Misrah: by the way Einstein- you can't use sarcasm online." Aegraen: "Don't worry, if things don't change, and change in a respectable manner sometime soon, you will see the second American Revolution, because tyranny in any form, must be fought against."

  Equaoh   Canada. November 04 2009 03:36. Posts 237Profile 
The amount of misinformation spread about not only marijuana but all sorts of psychoactive drugs is astounding. Not only do people not seriously consider the issue, they don't realize how mis or uninformed they are - check out all the people laughing in the Obama vid.
I honestly think it's going to take until the people who grew up surrounded by drug propaganda to move out of positions of power before these subjects can be looked at in a rational, unbiased way.

  jello_biafra   United Kingdom. November 04 2009 03:37. Posts 3426Profile Blog 
Eventually a sensible drugs policy will have to be adopted, it's only a matter of time . Cannabis was downgraded to a class C drug back in 2004 which was a step forward but then was reclassified to B again last year against the advice of the government's own commissioned report. It was a terrible decision to fire their advisor and I'm glad others have resigned in protest. Hopefully the Conservatives will do something about this if they get into government next year.
Siberia is evidence that God should have worked on the seventh day, because this job ain't finished. | Member of the "Fuck Yeah, Canata !" committee, to join copy/paste this

  Dr.Lettuce   United Kingdom. November 04 2009 03:38. Posts 195Profile Blog 
I think you guys are completely missing the social acceptance of alcohol.
There is no doubt if it was invented now, it would be illegal.

But it was a huge part of the UK and European countries economies and it helped with country relationships albeit in a very minor form of trade and politics and trying different drinks.

And alcohol really boosted the internal economies of many countries. Look how many pubs there are in the UK. Many of them are quite old. Because alcohol has been socially accepted it's been ingrained in to the culture for along time. And as such it has some leeway compared to other things.

I know you're going go argue that marijuana has been around even longer and is natural. But it wasn't really as extensively used as alcohol.
Entire industries are founded on it, such as clubbing and raving etc. And it's generally seen as sociable. Despite the damages it causes. binge drinking, violence.
De-criminalizing weed is one thing. But legalizing it is very very tricky as there are literally hundreds of more things that have to be assessed and the implications they might have.

I never really look at the two as a comparison. I see them as 2 separate things. Weed, and alcohol. Why compare the two? They aren't used for the same purpose, they are taken differently and have different social classifications. I honestly see it as comparing MMA and boxing or one of my other bad analogies

  Plexa   New Zealand. November 04 2009 03:39. Posts 16234Profile Blog 
Not the first time politics has ignored science =/
~ Spirit will set you free ~

  zeppelin   United States. November 04 2009 03:42. Posts 309Profile 
the phrases "think of the children" and "tough on crime" win more elections than any sort of rational stance on the issue (as well as any other issue involving crime and punishment)

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