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 Drakonis Canada. November 05 2009 14:15. Posts 7 | Profile |
Hey, I'm new to playing bw competitively. I used to play alot for fun, but mostly just UMS or fastest maps. In general, I don't really seem to have a high average APM, usually hovering between 60-100, but can peak around 250-300 during key points in a match.
I recently played a ZvT match on ICCup, and ended up winning in the early stages of the Midgame. My average APM was 67 and my opponents was 191. With that being said, I didn't feel like the game was even that close, and I didn't really have too much trouble winning the match. Is having a really high APM really that important? I tend not to spam rally points, movement points, or constantly switching between hotkeys for no reason. I like to think that despite having a low APM, each of my actions is relevant to the game. |
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 Stratos_speAr United States. November 05 2009 14:17. Posts 353 | Profile |
| Yes. APM is pretty much the most basic thing you need because it allows you to do things. With 100ish APM, you just straight up can't act fast enough to do all of the things to play at a highly competitive level. You don't need that much at the beginning, but the higher in ranks you climb, the more you'll need. |
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 VorcePA United States. November 05 2009 14:23. Posts 572 | Profile Blog |
It's not the APM that matters, it's the effective use of that apm, which is known as EAPM (effective actions per minute). Your opponent was likely spamming the same actions with reckless disregard to how useless they were, and, as a result, ended up wasting time, so you crushed him.
As a Terran player, you are going to need some ridiculous EAPM to really get high up in the ranks, but once you have your mechanics down and the speed to make use of those mechanics*, you'll be untouchable.
* I make it sound so easy, but it takes a couple, if not several years of dedicated practice to get it down. Your practice today will only be to have fun (always!) and to prepare you to be good at Starcraft II.Last edit: 2009-11-05 14:24:15 |
| | "Nony used corsairs against me in PvT and did some expo break on blue storm it was pretty gay =/" -- petzergling |  |
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 Cu(oCo) Italy. November 05 2009 14:24. Posts 161 | Profile Blog |
someone is B with 100 apm and someone is D- with 300.
noone can tell if apm are rly much important to you
otherwise tvz is the most micro abuse match up so i recommend you to watch some FPVODS to improve your micro at least @ 150 apm
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broken english |
| | Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴 |  |
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 eMbrace United States. November 05 2009 14:25. Posts 901 | Profile Blog |
as your mind gets more used to keeping track of everything, your fingers will gradually become quicker.
at least that's how i see it -- i've never heard anyone complain about not being able to physically move their fingers fast enough. |
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 nicoaldo Argentina. November 05 2009 14:27. Posts 380 | Profile |
| What VorcePA said, as long as it isn´t spamming, the more APM the better. If you are having 67 APM or so, you are most likely not doing half the things u have to do. With practice, and knowing what you need to do, your APM will start getting higher and higher. |
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 Jonoman92 United States. November 05 2009 14:28. Posts 3761 | Profile Blog |
APM isn't that important but 67 APM is simply too low to play against most experienced competition. 100 APM if it is all effective and not spam however is enough to be a decent (B- rank.)
Strategy and knowledge of what to do is more important than APM though, however APM is important because you need to be quick enough to do all the multitasking that needs to be done. How high your APM will need to be depends on how good you want to be, but remember, you can't increase your APM to get better, you get better and your APM will improve (at least when you are sub-200 APM, beyond that I think it comes with talent and hardcore practice.) |
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| Cu(oCo) Italy. November 05 2009 14:28. Posts 161 | Profile Blog |
On November 05 2009 14:23 VorcePA wrote:
It's not the APM that matters, it's the effective use of that apm, which is known as EAPM (effective actions per minute). Your opponent was likely spamming the same actions with reckless disregard to how useless they were, and, as a result, ended up wasting time, so you crushed him.
As a Terran player, you are going to need some ridiculous EAPM to really get high up in the ranks, but once you have your mechanics down and the speed to make use of those mechanics*, you'll be untouchable.
* I make it sound so easy, but it takes a couple, if not several years of dedicated practice to get it down. Your practice today will only be to have fun (always!) and to prepare you to be good at Starcraft II.
Q: how i can check my EAPM?
A: here or here |
| | Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴 | |
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| Drakonis Canada. November 05 2009 14:30. Posts 7 | Profile |
| Yeah SCII was my main reason to start playing bw on a more competitve level, I'm currently a Zerg player, not a Terran player btw. I really enjoy the game, and practicing is fun (a little intimidating sometimes though). I'm trying to work on improving my APM, by using hotkeys more effectively and learning to micro better. I was just surprised that someone with a very high APM compared to my own didn't crush me into the ground. |
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| Cu(oCo) Italy. November 05 2009 14:35. Posts 161 | Profile Blog |
| did you try to bo10 him? or else just watch the eapm of that terran :s |
| | Goons? just vulture toys 휴.휴 | |
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| VorcePA United States. November 05 2009 14:37. Posts 572 | Profile Blog |
On November 05 2009 14:30 Drakonis wrote:
Yeah SCII was my main reason to start playing bw on a more competitve level, I'm currently a Zerg player, not a Terran player btw. I really enjoy the game, and practicing is fun (a little intimidating sometimes though). I'm trying to work on improving my APM, by using hotkeys more effectively and learning to micro better. I was just surprised that someone with a very high APM compared to my own didn't crush me into the ground.
Like I said: if you're spamming, you're wasting actions and getting -nothing- done. Someone could have 30,000 APM and if all they're doing is telling the same SCV to mine minerals over and over again, what is getting accomplished? Instead of building a building, or buildings more SCVs, starting marine production, upgrading stim, getting a comsat, scouting your base........ they're spamming an SCV to mine minerals a 1,500 times.
This is likely what your opponent did. Spammed the same actions multiple times while accomplishing very little effective actions. His micro might be a little better than yours when it comes to battles, but you'll find as you progress through D -> D+ -> C-, macro is more important in those stages, as well as having a solid build, more than commanding each individual unit to be as effective as they possibly can be.
If I had to guess, I'd say your opponent likely came from either DotA/HoN or Warcraft III, of which both of those games are diametrically opposite [in the perspective-view game genre] of Starcraft. Starcraft is about commanding very fragile and very many units all at the same time. War3 and DotA are about commanding a small number of very tough units.Last edit: 2009-11-05 14:41:35 |
| | "Nony used corsairs against me in PvT and did some expo break on blue storm it was pretty gay =/" -- petzergling | |
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 lone_hydra Canada. November 05 2009 14:40. Posts 328 | Profile |
I like to think about Starcraft as a game of 3 resources. APM/time, minerals, gas.
You can have as many resources as you like, but you gotta spend it. The guy who has 5000 minerals/gas and spends 4000 is gonna beat the guy with 10000 that spends 2000.
Same with APM, the guy with 80 APM who uses 70 to do meaningful things is gonna beat the guy with 200APM who wastes 3/4 on move and select commands(spam).Last edit: 2009-11-05 14:40:42 |
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 DoctorHelvetica United States. November 05 2009 14:50. Posts 3629 | Profile Blog |
Spamming is really just training yourself to react and execute things as quickly as possible. The reason why people spam is to keep themselves in a rhythm of acting and reacting very quickly. When you begin spam is just going to fill up a ton of APM and you're still going to have awful mechanics. You'll improve though.
If you don't push yourself to play as mechanically and quickly as possible, you won't improve as much. APM by itself is indeed meaningless. |
| | Trust me, I'm a Doctor | second member of the "loli is not a crime" club! PM konadora to join | number one 815 fan! | ICCUP- doctorliquid/FrozenMarine |  |
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 Athos United States. November 05 2009 14:51. Posts 1522 | Profile Blog |
| APM is important. But its a real pain in the ass to try to improve it.I recommend to just playing games focusing on improving and naturally your apm will go up over time. By time I mean very, very slowly. |
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 resonance Canada. November 05 2009 14:56. Posts 1274 | Profile Blog |
Yes apm is important. Ignore the stories of people who say "oh well there is this one B+ guy with only 100 apm". There may be one of him but for every one of him there are 200 others at his level.
Though your apm is simply too low to compete. Don't even bother with saying "I can max at 250-300" because if you are 60 apm more than likely you are spamming that. Average EAPM is really what's important in terms of APM.
Just get a good hotkey set up (day9's podcast on mechanics) and your apm will improve slowly. |
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 Saracen United States. November 05 2009 14:57. Posts 2310 | Profile Blog |
APM is not important. The thing is that so many noobies get all caught up in the glitz and glamor of speedy pro FPVODs that all they talk about is APM. It's so much better to just ignore it completely and focus on doing what you need to do.
Don't worry about APM. You're well over a year of practice away from the point where it even matters. |
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| zekie Canada. November 05 2009 15:00. Posts 165 | Profile |
| IMO it depends what level you're at. if you're still a D to C- than 120-150 apm is fine (aslong as its used fairly well). it also depends what race you play ^^. i just played a C zerg with 100 apm and i also knew a C terran with 120 so i guess once you get passed there it gets more and more important. |
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| Drakonis Canada. November 05 2009 15:07. Posts 7 | Profile |
| Yeah, hopefully I improve enough by the time SCII comes out (which could be anytime between now and the time I get old and die) to be somewhat decent at the game. Thankfully I've been around bw long enough to understand the units and strategies, I just need to learn to do everything as quickly and as efficiently as possible. |
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| resonance Canada. November 05 2009 15:20. Posts 1274 | Profile Blog |
On November 05 2009 15:07 Drakonis wrote:
Yeah, hopefully I improve enough by the time SCII comes out (which could be anytime between now and the time I get old and die) to be somewhat decent at the game. Thankfully I've been around bw long enough to understand the units and strategies, I just need to learn to do everything as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Are you aiming to be a pro-gamer?  |
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