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 Ao_Jun November 05 2009 23:11. Posts 205 | Profile Blog |
Hello there i recently started playing a little more again after taking a break for a few years, usually i do 2 or 1gate openings on all maps but maps like tau cross or destination really begs for an FE, so i started practicing FE builds(Not going too well).
This game is on destination on C lvl and it accentuates my problem in pvz. It seems to me like i have to be all over the map with my army taking expansions harassing and so on while zerg really just sits at home massing lings with his 15 haches off 4/5 bases pressing A on the minimap now and then.
I start off with a pretty standard FE/Sim city, i then try to take my third very early ( like white-ra in This game ) it all goes according to plan, i get my third up and i feel like i am ahead. This feeling lasts for a while as i wander around the map flaunting my big army. Then he gets to cracklings. He starts sending out little death squads of lings and defilers to take down my bases, i luckily have reavers and cannons at most of them tho so im ok.
After a little while he must have saved up gas for ultras cause now he's got like 20 and he just pummels my 12 archon/3reaver +goon/zeal army, takes my expansions down and kills my main.
My own analysis:
I think i need to be a little bit more agressive with harass, i dont do much of it in this game 'cause i am terrified of scourges..
I could use my money better i guess make 50 zealots or something..
maybe switch to sair/DT earlier..
I dunno.. heres the game.
http://rapidshare.com/files/302747162/KIGH.rep.html
can only be downloaded 10 times, is there a better place to upload reps? |
| | you are one of the least benigtedly unintelligent organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting. |
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 Papvin Denmark. November 05 2009 23:42. Posts 57 | Profile | |
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 BeefyEnchilada United States. November 06 2009 00:12. Posts 12 | Profile |
| Dont be afraid to harass harder. Every game i've lost with ultraling has been because I couldn't keep my expansions up and running. The weakness of Ultraling is that we have to manage twice as many bases, so it gets really hard to multitask if every two seconds "The hive cluster is under attack!" While doing that, just macro up a billion goons zealots and archons, then 1a2a3a etc. |
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 EsX_Raptor United States. November 06 2009 00:22. Posts 1717 | Profile Blog |
Can you re-upload? I can't download the replay  |
| | hobby mspainter, from venezuela, learning japanese |
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 iG.Aura Poland. November 06 2009 00:31. Posts 604 | Profile Blog |
this sounds alot to me like you simply are letting zerg take bases and not putting on very much pressure at all.. please note i dont play protoss but ive played a couple of pvzs before.. hehe (and alot of zvp)
ill watch the replay in a minute and edit my post
edits:
im writing things down as i watch the replay:
ok well first of all, i think your scouting probe should of done a much better job at stopping his hatchery, because the drone came and attacked your probe
next i think the gates you added around 6:35 are a little late, they should of came earlier, it looks like you are going for some quick attack with a bunch of zealot... yea hes got lurks basically and enough sunkens/lings to defend
btw, take the right side base because its alot alot alot easier to hold
please rally your gates  , and i think your macro is a little little weak, just try to keep constant production going in all of your gates. zerg isnt even trying to contain you, in most cases you can just out macro him and run him over here, and gain total map control, take another base and make a shitload of crap...
at 11 minutes you havent attacked him once, with nothing, you are sooooooo passive!
ok your macro is a huge huge huge huge problem, zerg has more supply than you, which is no offense, very very very bad. you have to stay on top of pylons and gate production, on 3 bases you should have alot more gates than this.
at 13 minutes, this game is already over. theres not really much you can do now, your army is small and zerg is about to be on 4 gas, and has hive tech. your early game and macro are the biggest problems. and yea zerg maxes out while you are sitting at 150.. this is not not not right
so i suggest:
1. be more aggressive, and try to find some better timings for a quick +1 speed zealot attack
2. rally your gates, stay on top of pylon production, and just macro like a beast 
hopefully i could of been of some help to you my friend
Last edit: 2009-11-06 00:44:28 |
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 fanatacist Angola. November 06 2009 00:45. Posts 9473 | Profile Blog |
| I have a related question, how do I apply pressure and deny bases when Zerg has you locked in your main with like a 20 lurker contain (assuming the map is not like Destination where there is a round-about path option). |
| | Believe nothing. Do anything. Fuck everything. |
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| iG.Aura Poland. November 06 2009 00:49. Posts 604 | Profile Blog |
On November 06 2009 00:45 fanatacist wrote:
I have a related question, how do I apply pressure and deny bases when Zerg has you locked in your main with like a 20 lurker contain (assuming the map is not like Destination where there is a round-about path option).
i think the most common thing ive seen protosses do in this situation is
1. sending out a dt early game when you first get templar tech to sneak around and delay some expos/scout. keeping this dt alive in the mid game can help delay expos here aswell
2. use a shuttle, something simple like a 4 zealot drop, dts in his main or an expo can do alot of damage and potentially distract him, allowing you to either make a quick storm on some scrouges or use this time to run out the backside (if its destination). |
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| Ao_Jun November 06 2009 02:13. Posts 205 | Profile Blog |
Thanks aura, good advice 
i'm trying to be passive when i expand because i usually play a much more agressive style, and i can't make that work on FE. I guess ill have to find a middle road tho
Here is the rep on repdepot (Ty.)
![[image loading]](http://repdepot.net/img/thumbs/23960.jpg) |
| | you are one of the least benigtedly unintelligent organic life forms it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting. |
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 ProoM Lithuania. November 06 2009 02:35. Posts 322 | Profile |
On November 06 2009 02:13 Ao_Jun wrote:Thanks aura, good advice i'm trying to be passive when i expand because i usually play a much more agressive style, and i can't make that work on FE. I guess ill have to find a middle road tho Here is the rep on repdepot (Ty.)
That all fits in the same line, you have to expand while attacking. |
| | Warning: "Trolling stuff" above is highly possible. |
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| iG.Aura Poland. November 06 2009 02:57. Posts 604 | Profile Blog |
On November 06 2009 02:35 ProoM wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 02:13 Ao_Jun wrote:Thanks aura, good advice i'm trying to be passive when i expand because i usually play a much more agressive style, and i can't make that work on FE. I guess ill have to find a middle road tho Here is the rep on repdepot (Ty.)
That all fits in the same line, you have to expand while attacking.
i think the standard play is to expand while you are doing your zealot timing attack, it puts zerg sooo far behind and gives u a huge advantage
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| ProoM Lithuania. November 06 2009 03:15. Posts 322 | Profile |
On November 06 2009 02:57 iG.Aura wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 06 2009 02:35 ProoM wrote:
On November 06 2009 02:13 Ao_Jun wrote:Thanks aura, good advice i'm trying to be passive when i expand because i usually play a much more agressive style, and i can't make that work on FE. I guess ill have to find a middle road tho Here is the rep on repdepot (Ty.)
That all fits in the same line, you have to expand while attacking.
\ i think the standard play is to expand while you are doing your zealot timing attack, it puts zerg sooo far behind and gives u a huge advantage
The basics of starcraft is to put pressure while you expand. Putting pressure does not always mean attacking. It can be harass, agressive army movement or even agressive expanding. Also, your minerals should not rise up over 500 without a good reason (for eg. you are saving on something you gonna be spending in very short time, like nexus+pylon and few cannons etc.)Last edit: 2009-11-06 03:17:43 |
| | Warning: "Trolling stuff" above is highly possible. |
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| fanatacist Angola. November 06 2009 05:17. Posts 9473 | Profile Blog |
Thanks Aura, I've been doing mostly HT drops trying to keep his drone count low, and I have done zealot hatchery snipes (but never in that situation). Thanks again!
Another related question, what do I do about Zerg expansions on maps like Destination when they take one of the high ground expansions that have 2 narrow ramps, get like 3 sunk 1 spore and 2-3 lurker, sometimes scourge and overlord... I know that I have to take out his expansions to hurt him and prevent him from going monster macro mode, but how can I do that with all that shit there? If I try to do a quick run-in and snipe, I get raped; if I move a large chunk of my forces there, the Zerg usually flanks once they see the attack and I have losses disproportionate to my gains, and more often than not the expansion doesn't die. |
| | Believe nothing. Do anything. Fuck everything. |
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| DanKlSauce United States. November 06 2009 05:21. Posts 17 | Profile |
| I really hate the mutated cows too. I can't find a way to stop imbalanced drops because after that happens its like gg for me |
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| NrG.NeverExpo Canada. November 06 2009 06:39. Posts 111 | Profile |
Building a robotics at ur expos vs hive really helps. Youd be surprised what a few cannons 2 reavers and an HT will do vs ultraling/swarm.
As for the massive lurker contains, be patient. Dont suicide ur whole army into that meatgrinder. If a zerg is focusing hard on the contain, it means he doesnt have much back to fall back on if you are to break out. Place your storms well, and lead with dragoon so pick off lurks. KEEP YOUR OBERVERS ALIVE. It wouldnt hurt to upgrade ob sight, although im sure its not too popular. |
| | 60% of the time, I win everytime. |
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| fanatacist Angola. November 07 2009 01:02. Posts 9473 | Profile Blog |
Thanks for the help guys... I usually get ob speed, but that has been fucking me over recently (running ahead of army) so I might switch to range like I used to. I guess I have to control my army better T_T;
How do you hotkey your army for a lurk contain break? Everything separate or together? |
| | Believe nothing. Do anything. Fuck everything. |
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 Severedevil United States. November 07 2009 03:08. Posts 427 | Profile |
On November 07 2009 01:02 fanatacist wrote:
Thanks for the help guys... I usually get ob speed, but that has been fucking me over recently (running ahead of army) so I might switch to range like I used to. I guess I have to control my army better T_T;
How do you hotkey your army for a lurk contain break? Everything separate or together?
Obs speed lets you tag observers to your units without them falling behind, so you don't need to hotkey your observers at all.
For lurker contain break... I prefer to have my goons on a separate hotkey with minimal mixing, since you generally don't want zealots/archons rushing into range. |
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