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 flothefreak Germany. November 08 2009 03:23. Posts 49 | Profile |
Hi guys
I am a ~D+ zerg and just played a zvp on Python.
Replay: CLICK
I opened 9pool speedlings vs FE from toss.
The game went quite good for me, I realized what he wanted to do and was prepared for it. I sniped sairs and reaver-shuttles without really losing drones or units. But somehow he was able to grab more expos beside his natural. When I saw his island expo, I made 18 mutalisks and tried to destroy it, but he already had too many sairs and also had started carriers.
I just wasnt able to tear the expos down. He had a sair-fleet from two stargates so any scourge attack failed, and I thought trying a massdrop would be risky. His expos were heavily defended with cannons and reavers.
So I started double-upgrading airunits to match his corsair/carriers with muta/devourer. But before I got there I was dead.
From my perspective I can tell that I should have won this game but somehow wasnt able.
My analysis:
-Maybe I should have expoed even more, given the advantages I gained.
-I probably should have gone for swarm earlier
-Either commit to air units or dont make them at all in this situation. I kinda wanted to get all upgrades while staying on hydralisks (Is air, say mass muta+a few devourers, spread out and with upgrades viable against sair/carrier? If no, what about additionally putting plague and ensnare on protoss fleet?)
-I should have denied that 3rd of him somehow
-Letting him take MY island was ridiculous
-My drone saturation was unequal and sometimes after his harass I didnt reestablish my mining efficiently
-I didnt really attack him at all, as he was so heavily defended.
-I should have had a scout at the ramp of the main he took. When I saw his nexus there he already had cannoned up his front.
-I always had too much money. Maybe going for 6-7Hydra groups had busted his natural and main while ignoring his expos?
-My build order wasnt smooth so I lost 2 overlords to the first 2 sairs. But that isnt the problem here...
-Upgrades to 3 were kinda late
-When I just didnt know what to do next I got confused, resulting in a sloppy game.
-Plague would have helped me to fight his air fleet
My questions:
-How should I have denied his third? More air units, or researching drop?
-How and when should I have engaged him? Massdrop in his main although he had sairs? Or just use my insane amount of minerals to make lings and try to overrun him with swarm repeatedly?
-What is the proper way of denying expos when protoss tries to take them with his sair/reav combo? Especially when he aims for his near island or the adjacent main?
-What general mistakes did I make? Is there a major flaw in my gameplay against reaver/sair?
-What other advice strikes your mind?
Thanks in advance, TL :-)
[I may add other points afterwards if I have forgotten something]Last edit: 2009-11-08 03:26:44 |
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 RaptorX Germany. November 08 2009 07:23. Posts 202 | Profile |
Well, I have to say the guy didnt have the APM to do the sair/reaver, thats why he was losing the shuttles so easily, but I would really point out 3 things as a protoss:
1) zerg's motto is "dont let protoss expand... anywhere...", you have to keep scouting all the time, specially those islands in python... if you see he is expanding there make few mutas and take it before he put the cannons up... if the cannons are up, drop some lings and shut that 3rd down.
2base sair/reaver is not that effective.
2) you have to close yourself for harassment... some spores, some sunkens in places that you think he might drop the reavers, and place those scourges in places where you think the shuttle is going to go... if you have advantage make sure he cant harass you because thats what somebody that is losing is supposed to do... try to harass and delay your eco/attack.
3) you are the zerg... keep pushing in to his main with tons of units, send lings over and over to take down those cannons, make muta + hydra to take down the reavers, specially when you are expanded so much you can rebuild TONS of people very quickly but as i guess you saw the rep he just had 1-2 gates 2 robotics and 2 stargates, it doesnt matter how many units you lose he wont be able to keep up at some point... dont just simply let him go to carriers off 2 stargates...
Personally I think that the drop that you did was most effective in his main, if you take down those robotics and stargates he wouldnt be able to pop units for a while and its just an easy win for you just throwing units at his main...
I would say you lost because of being too pasive, in PvZ the protoss are relegated to defense and you have to keep them that way, force him to bring his reavers back to defend poke him here and there and use your superiority in scouting to make sure he is not hiding expos like the one right next to your main in the island...
But that is just my opinion as a D+ Protoss
note:
he was not that heavily defended as you make it sound, his main was quite open for being a sair/reaver opening, if you see VODs of sair/reaver you will see how many cannons they put in there... almost 3 times what he put...
also it was not about your drone count or anything of the sort, and probably dark swarm to throw units in to his nat was the best idea... yes you didnt attack him and thats why he was able to go carriers off 2 stargates...Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:25:48 |
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 ProoM Lithuania. November 08 2009 09:24. Posts 317 | Profile |
RaptorX, I cant belive u called zerg units "people", that is so BM, I'm so insulted that I will never talk with you again.
If seriously: raptor said pretty much all. Just to mention, if you cant stop him from getting 3rd by any way and hes on defensive, just expand more, and outmasshim to death. |
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| ViruX New Zealand. November 08 2009 09:31. Posts 214 | Profile Blog |
I was surprised you lost that game, you were at such a huge advantage after deflecting all the reaver harass.
Firstly when you saw the reavers you should expand like crazy reavers take ages to kill hatcheries and you had burrow to save the drones and he'll have no attack force apart from those reavers until/unless he switches back into ground - you were on 3 bases for too long.
Secondly your macro fell apart and you were sitting on 6-7k minerals for ages until the end of the game, thats like an extra 80 or more hydras you could be using. Most of the time all your larva were sitting idle, you just want to be pumping hydras all game.
As for you attacking your late game strategy was pretty questionable for some reason you mass zerglings and drop the ramp the worst spot in the map to attack, reavers and cannons destroy zerglings, you could have dropped hydras or even better, drop somewhere else like his expos or his main.
His carriers weren't defended by his corsairs which means they were ripe for scourging, you sort of had the right idea near the end of the game but you need like 6 or so scourge for each carrier. If he was defending his carriers with his corsairs then hydra dark swarm. You had the right idea as well but you only had 4 hydra to defend. |
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 hellokitty[hk] United States. November 08 2009 12:50. Posts 110 | Profile |
Don't forget about +3 hydras, very important.
Put at least one unit at every possible expand, it gets much more difficult if he gets a third and a fourth.
Its also useful if you burrow zerglings around the map since you can't leave overlords around. |
| | People are imbeciles, lucky thing god made cats. |
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