Sorry if this has been covered in a thread already, I used the search function and could not find a decent/recent thread.
HBR, Blue Storm, Destination, it doesn't matter....
TvP is not fun here... SOOOOO many people are doing probe + zealot rush (proxy gate, numerous variations + timings, all incredibly irritating...the worst I have seen is like 6 pylon 6/7 gateway then go with 3 more probes once 150 for gateway, use 1st probe to stop block attempt then the 3 probes catch up followed quickly by a zealot -_- not pleasant.) What should I do ? Maze? Block?
I find if I block P stops my rax/depot so I can't complete it and I have to make my rax next to the command center anyway...
Even if I maze immediately without this failed blocking attempt once they get 2+ zeals you can only really keep 1 marine totally safe between rax/cc, rax/depot, and even if you get the really elaborate cc/rax/depot/fact/depot maze the extra safe spots generally do not protect scvs at all.
I find if I micro the marines well and don't let them die my scvs take such a beating that it's gg anyway.... if I go more aggressive with the marines and they lose hp/die then I just get overrun by mass zealots or a really fast goon switch after the first 2-3 zealots.
My factory? I'm dead by the time I have the use of it or there is numerous zeals/goons waiting to destroy the first tank/vult that comes out and it's gg.
I could be more specific but anyone who is capable of helping me knows EXACTLY what I am talking about.
It's not like I lose every time to this... but the cases I have won I think it's just newbs imitating better players, when I played vs B-/B koreans every single time I got absolutely destroyed, it doesn't matter which way the game goes they either just continue zealot production, switch to goon or even just expo whilst demolishing my SCV's... Ughhh........ help
I'd be delighted to come out even after an opening like this, of course a sure fire way to gain an advantage would be.....very well received
Sorry I can't provide replays but seriously? I don't think it's necessary in this instance.
Last edit: 2009-11-08 06:54:40
aka NeO)LeO "I like hiding in the plants at the shopping mall."
Catch]22 Sweden. November 08 2009 06:56. Posts 278
B- highest rank so far... I don't even have a comp anymore though Internet cafe ftw!
I'm well aware it's not impossible, in fact I think in certain situations it's better, I just want to know what the best way to counter this shit is -_- have you tried TvPing B-/B koreans who proxy gate probe/zeal rush?? It's not easy..
Anyway the cafe is shutting now, I won't be able to check this for at least 12-24 hours, thanks in advance for any help! <3
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:00:05
aka NeO)LeO "I like hiding in the plants at the shopping mall."
neobowman Canada. November 08 2009 07:02. Posts 297
Why don't you just wall? It doesn't take that much of an investment.
Otherwise, you'll have to practice microing your SCVs to block the zealots. If you're using a building maze, lure the opponent's zealots to your marines and when they chase, move back to the maze. Rinse and repeat. If you want to, get a bunker up. Two if they went for a real all-in build sending all their probes.
Noobs Throwing Cans
MorroW[MB] Sweden. November 08 2009 07:12. Posts 121
stopping all these kinds of rush variations is extremely hard
im on a- level atm in ladder and i can confirm its really fucking hard early game on 2 player maps in tvp, and anybody who says "just send out a bunch of scvs and kill the gate" or say "just wallin" or say "just micro" are fucking retarded, cause these timings r so precise and so damn complex and if u dont know EXACTLY how to react ur most likely going to get behind
the concept of 2 player maps is to hold on until late game and take half map, if u manage this u will most likely win the game cause of the much more minerals left u have than toss cause of his failed recalls and all that
u should watch a ton of vods of tvp early game on desti bs hbr and all that, and i can ensure u that u will learn ALOT of the scouting timing around the map and how to react when p is proxying
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:15:08
ultralisks are bigger in person
IntoTheWow Argentina. November 08 2009 07:19. Posts 25181
It's hard, because if you wall and your wall falls (probe block, pylon in wall, in base proxy, etc) you usually can't hold.
Mazes are usually stronger, but if he went with a more mild rush (to time his first goons before your tank is out) you are in deep shit too.
I usually maze, since i make the depot closer to my minerals and have a faster BO, less harrass options for him. If I really really need a wall, I try to build it later (like on HBR or Destination).
The key is reading how "all-in" his rush is. And of course practicing these situations a lot
edit: iccup makes me paranoid in almost every match up I end up scouting really early ;_;
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:25:21
TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #1 (PM to become an Entusman) • Newest member: asl-ninja
Hyperionnn Turkey. November 08 2009 07:27. Posts 3485
Simcity is usually better vs proxy i think, because if p fucks up with your wall, and you're totally screwed and try to get your fac into a more protected area (its not fun when 2-3 goons and a zealot chills front of your fac when your tank is about to finish)
For bluestorm, i think you can get a zealot-proof wall with 1 rax 1 depot so it shouldnt be a big deal.
This type of simcity might be good i think
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:37:29
Piy United Kingdom. November 08 2009 07:30. Posts 1076
Well obviously you need to pull scvs to defend a proxy gate. You can micro off the first zealot with your 1 marine, but you'll need to pull a few scvs if he brought a probe or gets another zealot.
You won't be able to wall most likely so you'll need a simcity. On two player maps most players send a fast SCV to check very close proxy locations, which is good on BS and destination where there are some very common spots right outside your natural.
You just need to practice microing away scvs that are getting hit, making sure marines are staying safe and not letting your factory get slowed down too much. In the end, you should get to around 3-4 rines against 2-3 zealots and with enough scvs and decent micro you should be able to beat that fairly easily.
Usually getting a vulture is an ok idea, but if you're confident in your early micro against the proxy you can go straight to tank.
The founder of property, and hence inequality, was the first man whom staked out a piece of land stating "This is Mine" and was able to find someone fool enough to leave it.
ProoM Lithuania. November 08 2009 07:31. Posts 317
Yeah, playing TvP on 2 player maps is a pain in the you know where. However it is not impossible to defend it, I suggest you practising it with your friend, like saving after 2-3 minutes, and playing it over and over and over. Idealy you want to have marines in your mineral line/behind scvs and 1 marine between rax and cc. you have to aim to keep your every marine alive, even at the cost of your scv. You have to survive until you get enough marines to deal with the rest of zealots or a vulture. However, everyone has their own play style/learning ways, so if you know what's better for you, go for it! ;].
P.s. oh and ofcourse if you can place zealot tight wall with 1 rax and 1 depo, just aim to do it no matter what, even if it means bringing one or two extra scvs to fight the probe. And if you are sure hes doing that stuff, and will try to block you rax at the wall, just put a scv on the end of the ramp (if the map is with ramp), yes one scv can block the whole (regular) ramp (and it even has high ground advantage if u put it right, but make sure probe wont lure him out of his spot, keep stopping it).
P.s. -> Hyperionnn , you can make zealot tight wall on hbr both positions with 1 rax 1 depo too ;], and hbr has like twice longer walking distance than bluestorm ! :}
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:49:48
4Servy Netherlands. November 08 2009 07:33. Posts 230
on 2p map all you can do is camp in tvp its fukin gay like morrow said. Toss get nearly unharraseble epxos close by so all that nonsesne like vult/dropship isnt gona do anything.
Also walls do not beat proxies they just dont it depends on location but for example top spot on desti a pylon can always make a block. and with 9/9 gate real close placed to terran wall the probe comes mostly just intime to stop rax placement and then its gg.
4ServaNtoa B/B- level, aiming for good B next season
On November 08 2009 07:33 4Servy wrote: on 2p map all you can do is camp in tvp its fukin gay like morrow said. Toss get nearly unharraseble epxos close by so all that nonsesne like vult/dropship isnt gona do anything.
Also walls do not beat proxies they just dont it depends on location but for example top spot on desti a pylon can always make a block. and with 9/9 gate real close placed to terran wall the probe comes mostly just intime to stop rax placement and then its gg.
what? on desti its possible to build your wall so that no pylon will block the 2nd supply, or rather so that it would take 2 pylons to unable you to place it perfectly
ProoM Lithuania. November 08 2009 07:43. Posts 317
On November 08 2009 07:12 MorroW[MB] wrote: im on a- level atm in ladder
At the moment there are no swedes beyond B+ level on iccup =/
beyond or above?
Also, some good foreign players change their country to korean, just because they dont want to get recognised by billions of D noobs which are trying to chat with them.
Last edit: 2009-11-08 07:53:10
Aurious Canada. November 08 2009 07:50. Posts 1598
On November 08 2009 07:33 4Servy wrote: on 2p map all you can do is camp in tvp its fukin gay like morrow said. Toss get nearly unharraseble epxos close by so all that nonsesne like vult/dropship isnt gona do anything.
Also walls do not beat proxies they just dont it depends on location but for example top spot on desti a pylon can always make a block. and with 9/9 gate real close placed to terran wall the probe comes mostly just intime to stop rax placement and then its gg.
what? on desti its possible to build your wall so that no pylon will block the 2nd supply, or rather so that it would take 2 pylons to unable you to place it perfectly
top spot it doesnt really cause of rax> depot placement, rax gota be on the left side of the depot wich on the button spot is the case when he pylon blocks on the top spot however you end with your depot on the right side of the depot so its not zeal proof.
4ServaNtoa B/B- level, aiming for good B next season
MorroW[MB] Sweden. November 08 2009 07:57. Posts 121
On November 08 2009 07:12 MorroW[MB] wrote: im on a- level atm in ladder
At the moment there are no swedes beyond B+ level on iccup =/
i dont know about the other swedes but i smurf and i have a different flag than swedish, so ye u cant really know what rank someone is laddering on im facing b+ and a- users now and these tosses own the fuck crap out of me
On November 08 2009 07:33 4Servy wrote: on 2p map all you can do is camp in tvp its fukin gay like morrow said. Toss get nearly unharraseble epxos close by so all that nonsesne like vult/dropship isnt gona do anything.
Also walls do not beat proxies they just dont it depends on location but for example top spot on desti a pylon can always make a block. and with 9/9 gate real close placed to terran wall the probe comes mostly just intime to stop rax placement and then its gg.
what? on desti its possible to build your wall so that no pylon will block the 2nd supply, or rather so that it would take 2 pylons to unable you to place it perfectly
top spot it doesnt really cause of rax> depot placement, rax gota be on the left side of the depot wich on the button spot is the case when he pylon blocks on the top spot however you end with your depot on the right side of the depot so its not zeal proof.
Reason United Kingdom. November 08 2009 06:42. Posts 1205
Catch]22 Sweden. November 08 2009 06:56. Posts 278
Internet cafe ftw!
neobowman Canada. November 08 2009 07:02. Posts 297
MorroW[MB] Sweden. November 08 2009 07:12. Posts 121
IntoTheWow Argentina. November 08 2009 07:19. Posts 25181
Hyperionnn Turkey. November 08 2009 07:27. Posts 3485![[image loading]](http://i34.tinypic.com/2hf8fmw.jpg)
Piy United Kingdom. November 08 2009 07:30. Posts 1076
grobo Sweden. November 08 2009 07:37. Posts 3772
Aurious Canada. November 08 2009 07:50. Posts 1598
