          
Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Updated
irc.quakenet.org #teamliquid
IRC Web Client | | New to Team Liquid? Register here! | | | | |
|
 JMoridin United States. December 14 2002 23:13. Posts 63 | Profile |
Greetings:
I constantly see progamers micro their units to make sure they get flank attacks, or those from the side, et cetera, and am curious if this is only because it causes the unit being flanked to have to turn completely around (thus getting an extra hit in the swivel time), and trapping the unit if they wish to retreat, but does flanking a unit also give a bonus to attack, I.E. additional damage, or full damage? (I heard this, but could not exactly validate it)
Thanks kindly for your time and attention.  |
|
|
 Excalibur_Z United States. December 14 2002 23:25. Posts 6134 | Profile |
Flanking is to stop units from getting free hits. If you have 20 Zealots attacking a line of Tanks, going directly along the line, the Tanks will take out far more Zeals than if you had attacked from multiple angles. This is because your units are bunching up close together which reduces their effectiveness. Say 5 Zeals are able to attack a Tank before it dies - that's 15 Zeals that were idle for that period of time.
There is no inherent bonus for this in terms of "bonus damage", but it does make your attacks more efficient. |
| | Are you a Usual B.netter? - http://members.teamtg.com/excalibur/bnetfaq.htm |
|
|
 InToTheWannaB United States. December 15 2002 08:12. Posts 3525 | Profile |
| I allways kinda thought of flaking like in terms of old navel warfair. You try to "cross the T" and give them a broad side. Anyone know what i mean? God i wish i was better at english lol. |
| | Cowards die many times before there deaths. The valiant never taste of death, but once |
|
|
| Tajgrr Sweden. December 15 2002 11:53. Posts 71 | Profile |
But that dosent really explain why its effectiv to flank say, zeals with lings. Since non of them are ranged units, it does help though. I think its because when flanked, the zeals get a little more spread out, thus leaving space for more than one ling at a time attacking. + ofcourse, they will attack from both sides.  |
|
|
| InToTheWannaB United States. December 15 2002 12:07. Posts 3525 | Profile |
| sure it explains it!!! lol. Lets say i hit a bunch of lings that are like this | with a bunch of zelots shaped like this -. Then all my zelots in this shap - will kill all the lings at the top of the zerg | shape Before the lings at the bottom of the | formation can attack my zelots in - formation. You follow that? lol crossing the T still applys to melee units i think. Last edit: 2002-12-15 12:08:13 |
| | Cowards die many times before there deaths. The valiant never taste of death, but once |
|
|
| Asta Germany. December 15 2002 17:18. Posts 3279 | Profile |
u know what happens, if you attack a ramp blocked by zeals with lings? thats just because there are only 2 lings fighting against 2 zeals at once. now if the toss had 2 zeals, the zerg would have 8 lings for the same amount of mins/supply. that means that there are only 25% of the lings fighting while 100% of the zeals are dealing damage...
u get the same problem if u have larger amounts of units, because u just cant get 30 lings to attack at once without flanking the zeals. theres just not enough room in front of one zeal to get 4 lings to attack it. blizzard knows that lings have this disadvantage and therefore makes them a bit stronger than zeals ==> _if_ u get ur lings to the point that every zeal is always attacked by 4 lings as long as it attacks lings himself, lings > zeals.
english sux  |
|
|
| Casper... Liberia. December 15 2002 17:57. Posts 4948 | Profile |
its cuz armies work best when they can concentrate their fire in 1 direction.
if you make his army shoot in 2 or 3 directions, you distribute their attacks more and his army as a whole is less effective. |
| |
|
 Liquid`Drone Norway. December 15 2002 20:00. Posts 16907 | Profile |
what casper said and what some other guys said
anhother important aspect is avoiding area damage.. storming an army coming from 5 different sides is quite a bit harder than storming an army coming from one side, and when they're all from different sides there won't be a bunch of units in the behind blocking
flanking zealots vs lings would be stupid considering zealots benefit from closed areas where the amount of zealots able to attack is as close as possible to the amount of zerglings able to attack. however flanking ling vs zeal is really important |
| |
LOLLLL I LAUGH'D SO HARD AT UR 60 IQ COMMENT PLEASE KILL URSELF STONE AGE NOOB. |
|
|
| Majicou United States. December 15 2002 20:21. Posts 106 | Profile |
Well, was writing a strat guide and I mentioned this, but the concept of flanking is to concentrate your damage, and both reduce and spread out theirs.
Let's say you have a perfectly straight line of 10 dragoons. I have a perfectly straight line of 10 dragoons in such a way that I'm at your side making a T (me being the top). First of all, all my units will automatically begin firing at the first one in line, probably killing it in one volley. This will continue as all my units will tend to focus fire by themselves, killing units faster (this is the reverse of dancing - killing half the units is better than half killing all the units).
Meanwhile, your troops move upwards towards me. The first goes in range and stops to fire. The next must go around the first of your troops, thus spending more time walking than attacking. Meanwhile, I'm still focus-firing and killing one by one. The more troops you have, the more they have to get around each other until they get into optimal formation (a parabola). By then, most will be dead having had no chance to attack and only to walk around in circles.
Still, even when you do get into a parallel line with my troops, giving supposedly equal ground, most will be dead, the rest will be damaged. Obviously I would win excluding all other factors.
Also, unless you respond yourself, there is a chance half the troops would run towards mine while the other stays in place. In that way, I divide your forces, making it very easy to win.
The reason is the same reason you rally before attacking. If you don't rally, you walk in a straight line, thus automatically giving the enemy the flanking advantage where they can pick off troops one by one, and then your troops get in each others way.
Crossing the T is just to say which way to flank. Before you cross a T, when writing it, you get this | thing. Basically, you want your troops to form the T whichever way that might be. In other words, get them from the side of their formation (regardless of which way they are moving). |
|
|
| Majicou United States. December 15 2002 20:27. Posts 106 | Profile |
Side note: flanking also reduces the number of units that CAN attack at any time, which is good. This refers to both melee and ranged.
Flanking can also refer to just surroundingish stuff, or hitting from multiple angles, which will automatically distribute fire, and allow you to attack with more troops at once (less stumbling around each other). So the enemy must divide their power while yours is focused on a single point. That's a good thing. Besides, it's harder to retreat. |
|
|
 Roman United States. December 15 2002 20:54. Posts 2525 | Profile |
| Drone, flanking Z's vs lings is not stupid. If you outnumber the zerg to a point where the zerg has no option but to run, you send your z's right between his lings, in a semi-surround formation, and rape them. This gives him practically no time to react, and usually results in a loss of at least 1/2 his lings. |
|
|
| Casper... Liberia. December 16 2002 06:31. Posts 4948 | Profile |
yes it is.
pvz you want a tightly knit ball of death.
not zealots running around loose doing 0 damage the whole time while trying to "flank". |
| |
|
| JMoridin United States. December 17 2002 00:18. Posts 63 | Profile |
Greetings:
Thanks kindly for all of the responses, especially about versus storm/splash/or spells, as it had not occurred to me. |
|
|
 bi11y United States. December 17 2002 20:30. Posts 169 | Profile |
On December 15 2002 20:21 Majicou wrote:
Well, was writing a strat guide and I mentioned this, but the concept of flanking is to concentrate your damage, and both reduce and spread out theirs.
Let's say you have a perfectly straight line of 10 dragoons. I have a perfectly straight line of 10 dragoons in such a way that I'm at your side making a T (me being the top). First of all, all my units will automatically begin firing at the first one in line, probably killing it in one volley. This will continue as all my units will tend to focus fire by themselves, killing units faster (this is the reverse of dancing - killing half the units is better than half killing all the units).
Meanwhile, your troops move upwards towards me. The first goes in range and stops to fire. The next must go around the first of your troops, thus spending more time walking than attacking. Meanwhile, I'm still focus-firing and killing one by one. The more troops you have, the more they have to get around each other until they get into optimal formation (a parabola). By then, most will be dead having had no chance to attack and only to walk around in circles.
Still, even when you do get into a parallel line with my troops, giving supposedly equal ground, most will be dead, the rest will be damaged. Obviously I would win excluding all other factors.
Also, unless you respond yourself, there is a chance half the troops would run towards mine while the other stays in place. In that way, I divide your forces, making it very easy to win.
The reason is the same reason you rally before attacking. If you don't rally, you walk in a straight line, thus automatically giving the enemy the flanking advantage where they can pick off troops one by one, and then your troops get in each others way.
Crossing the T is just to say which way to flank. Before you cross a T, when writing it, you get this | thing. Basically, you want your troops to form the T whichever way that might be. In other words, get them from the side of their formation (regardless of which way they are moving).
nicely put |
| | play me online u know that ill beat u, if i ever meet u, ill control - alt- delete - u |
|
|
 NoNameLoser United States. December 17 2002 21:45. Posts 1468 | Profile |
| Zileas once wrote a perfect explanation of this, too bad th site is no longer up... Basically its all alredy said here i just want to add that besides that his units are distributing damage all over, your army concentrates damage at almost one point and after some units have died you can clearly see the advantage he said it inceases ur damage about 2 times and decreses enemy's damage 2 times thus making your army 4!!! times more effitient. |
|
|
| Majicou United States. December 17 2002 22:47. Posts 106 | Profile |
| Danke bi11y |
|
|
 MPXMX Canada. December 18 2002 01:15. Posts 4307 | Profile |
I play terran and flanking is not part of terran play  Sadly enough too because it adds a new dimension to the game. Terran only maybe needs to flank with m&m against zerg - rarely. |
|
|
| JMoridin United States. December 18 2002 03:05. Posts 63 | Profile |
On December 18 2002 01:15 MPXMX wrote: I play terran and flanking is not part of terran play Sadly enough too because it adds a new dimension to the game. Terran only maybe needs to flank with m&m against zerg - rarely.
While I would agree flanking is perhaps not as large a part of terran play than the more melee (as opposed to ranged terran) style races, it certainly can make the difference, as you said with MM's, but most of all, I find it effective in flanking protoss with vultures, especially mining the retreat or harassing then when they find the heat my tanks are bringing is too much. (In fact, Boxer v. Nazgul 4, Boxer basically wins with a hidden factory, and spidermine Flanking Nazgul's dragoon force, which otherwise would have wasted the fellows tanks.) TvT, which normally turns into dropship/tank wars, flanking can also prove beneficial, especially if you VC tanks in the back, and catch them from both sides. Though it still stands, terran benefits the least from flanking, since they are mostly ranged. |
|
|
| Catatonic_soul United States. December 18 2002 22:30. Posts 4 | Profile |
| I dunno... My Micro sucks -_-;; |
| | Where is your savior now? |
|
|
| Catatonic_soul United States. December 18 2002 22:32. Posts 4 | Profile | |
| | Where is your savior now? |
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
 |
|
      
|