 KwarK United Kingdom. January 24 2010 08:19. Posts 11635 | Profile Blog # |
Warrior-350 and I spent half an hour pouring over the vod and screenshotting everything and working out how many minerals were left where etc. Where there were unknowns such as money in the bank and dots on the minimap we rigged it very heavily in favour of Flash.
Flash was seen to have 10 marines and 8 medics. While it would be logical to assume his macro would be slowing down because his main was bare and his natural mineral crystals were disappearing we gave him 16 more marines (2 rounds of production) and 1k in the bank. Equally we fucked JD over. His +3 melee had only just started (it was unknown how near completion it was), the only units he had were the ones we'd seen, he had no units being built and nothing in the bank (this was plain cheating, obv he'd either have money or units coming given he was mining). Also every unaccounted for unit on the minimap was assumed to be a pair of zerglings, rather than a defiler or ultralisk. Obv Flash usually macros perfectly so with 8 rax keeping up for 2 bases there is no way he had surplus minerals after his main mined out. But I want to stop people saying "maybe Flash had bank".
So, I don't claim that this save file accurately represents what was in that game. For this to be true JD would need to have stopped mining for a bit and somehow have no units coming while Flash would need to be macroing badly. What this does represent is the absolute best possible scenario Flash could have maybe not really but wishful thinking perhaps been in.
Play it with a friend. Have fun. Give some feedback.
I'm well aware it's not 100% accurate because wherever there was doubt I rigged it for Flash. If you can find anything that could have been in Flash's favour that wasn't in this game then say and I'll edit it in. I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
Edit, this works exactly like a rep file. Dl, put it in your save folder rather than rep folder and create.
Edit2: thanks to Evochamber for estimations of how much gas would be left etc. I think we got a fair representation of drone count and how heavily the map was mined (while leaving JD far from saturated).
Edit 3: Man save files are buggy. There seems to be some strange and arcane combination of events required to use them. But if you want to take a look at our recreation of the situation then this rep file created from the save file should work.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7PPOO1ZQ
Our play is obviously not great but tbh that's probably how it would go. In the three times we've tested it Terran has been unable to hold his mineral only against the first attack + rally point of zerg units happening some 15 seconds into the replay. Pure mnm and irradiate just doesn't have the firepower to kill 3 wounded ultralisks under swarm, especially with the hatcheries pouring ultraling into the fight.
If you want to try the save file yourself pm me and I'll try and get it working with you on icc.Last edit: 2010-01-24 09:50:44 |
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 TheBB Switzerland. January 24 2010 08:24. Posts 567 | Profile # |
Kwark, I don't know why you even bother, but you have my mad respect for bothering anyway.
Edit: And Warrior-350, wherever he may be.Last edit: 2010-01-24 08:27:52 |
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 Mindcrime United States. January 24 2010 08:25. Posts 4676 | Profile # |
On January 24 2010 08:19 KwarK wrote:
I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
What if he had a control group of bcs. We can't know he didn't, man. Maybe he did. This is flash we're talking about |
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 thopol Japan. January 24 2010 08:27. Posts 2433 | Profile Blog # |
| You have been unfaltering in your reasonable and cool-headed posts since last night. I think as people cool off some more you will find that your arguments have been hitting home. |
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| KwarK United Kingdom. January 24 2010 08:27. Posts 11635 | Profile Blog # |
No physics addon. Sorry.  |
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 sechkie United States. January 24 2010 08:28. Posts 41 | Profile # |
On January 24 2010 08:25 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:19 KwarK wrote:
I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
What if he had a control group of bcs. We can't know he didn't, man. Maybe he did. This is flash we're talking about
lol, nice haha but for some reason I think there might be a higher chance of him having carriers ^^ |
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 Carnivorous Sheep China. January 24 2010 08:28. Posts 5781 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:25 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:19 KwarK wrote:
I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
What if he had a control group of bcs. We can't know he didn't, man. Maybe he did. This is flash we're talking about
Could've been two control groups man, could've been two. And in game one, where Flash GG'ed, he could've still came back. WE DON'T KNOW MAN.
But thanks for the effort doing this Kwark, but I feel that fanboys are still not gonna be convinced o.o |
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| koreasilver Canada. January 24 2010 08:29. Posts 4460 | Profile Blog # |
| But Kwark! You never know what could have happened! Maybe Flash is literally god and Jaedong might have spontaneously suffered a cerebral aneurysm! |
| | Canata gives new meaning to the phrase "time attacker." - EvoChamber | |
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 jalstar United States. January 24 2010 08:30. Posts 3964 | Profile Blog # |
On the contrary, KwarK's arguments have been screaming "JAEDONG WAS AHEAD" for 8 straight hours and then making a save game where Jaedong's ahead and saying it's rigged for Flash.
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio. |
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 danbel1005 Ecuador. January 24 2010 08:30. Posts 403 | Profile # |
Awesome Stuff
so badass  |
| | "EE HAN TIMING" Jaedong vs Stork [22 December, 2007] 2set @ Finals EVER OSL. |  |
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| Purind Canada. January 24 2010 08:30. Posts 3016 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:25 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:19 KwarK wrote:
I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
What if he had a control group of bcs. We can't know he didn't, man. Maybe he did. This is flash we're talking about
Reminds me of this highlight video of oov countering 4 pool by getting a control group or BCs |
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 Pyrrhuloxia United States. January 24 2010 08:31. Posts 5251 | Profile Blog # |
| Wow mad props, Kwark. Would love to see Idra and Ret play this out |
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| KwarK United Kingdom. January 24 2010 08:31. Posts 11635 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
On the contrary, KwarK's arguments have been screaming "JAEDONG WAS AHEAD" for 8 straight hours and then making a save game where Jaedong's ahead and saying it's rigged for Flash.
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.
Load up the save game and pause it. Take a look at how much shit I gave Flash and how little I gave JD. Damn right it's rigged for Flash. But yes, JD is still ahead. That was kinda my point. But I'm glad you agree. |
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| AoN.Warrior-350- United States. January 24 2010 08:32. Posts 147 | Profile # |
| YAY some one gave me respect :D |
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| thopol Japan. January 24 2010 08:32. Posts 2433 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.
Those aren't arguments. They're mostly just bitching.
Nobody liked how events turned out. That's not contentious, which is a feature that is mandatory to have arguments. |
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 kNyTTyM United States. January 24 2010 08:33. Posts 4308 | Profile Blog # |
| I've already accepted Flash lost. I still feel robbed of an epic series though. |
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| jalstar United States. January 24 2010 08:33. Posts 3964 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:32 thopol wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.
Those aren't arguments. They're mostly just bitching. Nobody liked how events turned out. That's not contentious, which is a feature that is mandatory to have arguments.
well that's why "good arguments" is in quotes, because everyone agrees, except for a few people saying the whole thing's fine and dandy because jaedong was ahead |
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| koreasilver Canada. January 24 2010 08:34. Posts 4460 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:30 Purind wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:25 Mindcrime wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:19 KwarK wrote:
I'm not trying to recreate the game perfectly, I'm trying to demonstrate why Flash loses in that situation, no matter what.
What if he had a control group of bcs. We can't know he didn't, man. Maybe he did. This is flash we're talking about
Reminds me of this highlight video of oov countering 4 pool by getting a control group or BCs
I have a replay of Chojja countering a bunker rush with stop lurkers. |
| | Canata gives new meaning to the phrase "time attacker." - EvoChamber | |
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| thopol Japan. January 24 2010 08:36. Posts 2433 | Profile Blog # |
On January 24 2010 08:33 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 08:32 thopol wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.
Those aren't arguments. They're mostly just bitching. Nobody liked how events turned out. That's not contentious, which is a feature that is mandatory to have arguments.
well that's why "good arguments" is in quotes, because everyone agrees, except for a few people saying the whole thing's fine and dandy because jaedong was ahead
I don't think that Kwark thought the series was fine and dandy. I don't think anyone did. I really think what he is doing is trying to illustrate to the wide world of noobs that Flash wasn't coming back from that. This issue has been irritatingly rampant, so why not applaud Kwark for working to dispel it. |
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 csfield United States. January 24 2010 08:36. Posts 70 | Profile # | |
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