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On February 10 2010 09:18 Ace wrote: I tried to run a game like this once, but it failed. I do remember it being very hard for ANY side to just "win" easily. Remember that everyone has a 1 vs 2 scenario so it's not like the Town is any more fucked than the Mafia families. Hell I even remember the families figuring each other out and there was a "truce" of some sort that was about to be broken.
haha I remember the one game where we had two families and some tard didn't realize there were two battling families and gave away all the names of one family...
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On February 14 2010 08:23 Ver wrote: I don't want this game to head in the directions of the two intro games that were previously played so time to lay some ground rules before the momentum is too much:
Overly discussing clues on the first day, generally even the first two days, helps the mafia. Period.
Why is this? Clues are designed so that they become stronger over time. Each mafia member is assigned a profile with various traits, and a few are picked every night. Thus it would be absolutely unfair for clues to be useful early on, because if they only get more useful over time, the mafia are just going to die to clues every day.
Tthe best two clue analyzers here are Camlito and MTF (neither are playing btw). They don't really bother doing much with clues before day 3 and certainly don't find anything conclusive. Day 3 is the day when the profiles start to fit. That's when these two start making big progress and pinning down mafia. And these guys are the very best.
For those not convinced, here are some facts:
There have only been two mafia caught on clues before day 3. Truthbringer in Plexa's game, and DoctorHelvetica in Incognito's last game. That's two out of A LOT of attempts. Of serious clue suspects in all the games, I'd say it's probably 5-10% success rate. Do you seriously want to try to get a mafia on that percentage? Randomly selecting a person is at least twice as likely if not four times than by day 1 clues.
Now why does this help the mafia? First, the odds of success are so low that it diverts the town's efforts into meaningless pursuits. This let's the mafia control the game flow (very important) and restricts the amount of useful information we are able to get. Secondly, it gives the mafia very easy methods for blending in without being forced to give real contributions. By this I don't mean they put in no effort and just throw some slop down; that would be obvious. Mafia members can type serious clue analysis and just not target their family. That would look exactly like a townie because...clues this early are so vague and useless townies are not going to be getting many mafia anyway. Or sheesh, they can frame their own members and it doesn't really matter because they aren't going to convince anyone to kill on that alone.
Since I have a sneaking suspicion most people just glaze over my essays I'm going to try breaking them up into smaller chunks and seeing if that has any improvement.
Bah after making a post going against this I'm going to succumb to the fact that you are right. I was thinking having two families around would make it advantageous for the town to discuss clues, but I'm sure the mafia will have to be busy on their own to do that .
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You guys are exhausting your fingers with this Ace bullshit. No one trusts Ace, but we don't all fight him...
Also this whole bill.murray thing should be looked at a bit more carefully. Chezinu and foolishness out of nowhere voting for this guy? And we have about 20 abstains and the highest votes are Ver and Citizen with 4, which is crying for a vote swing from either mafia family.
Also people who post a lot of nonsense should be careful. Just because the someone showed you're posting a lot, doesn't validate your alliance to the town any more than someone who isn't posting a lot. (I'm saying this because reading 20+ pages of bullshit really sucks)
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On February 15 2010 15:56 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 15:54 Amber[LighT] wrote: You guys are exhausting your fingers with this Ace bullshit. No one trusts Ace, but we don't all fight him...
Also this whole bill.murray thing should be looked at a bit more carefully. Chezinu and foolishness out of nowhere voting for this guy? And we have about 20 abstains and the highest votes are Ver and Citizen with 4, which is crying for a vote swing from either mafia family.
Also people who post a lot of nonsense should be careful. Just because the someone showed you're posting a lot, doesn't validate your alliance to the town any more than someone who isn't posting a lot. (I'm saying this because reading 20+ pages of bullshit really sucks) L is winning. i have zero votes despite all the logic i spouted. logic doesn't work with this town.
My mistake. L's name is too short and it's late t.t
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On February 15 2010 23:35 Abenson wrote: It's time i posted something useful :D
As of now, if I were the mafia I would just sit back and relax while the town kills each other (like ver said), so therefore the correct actions for town would be to use the power of pm's (?) and also check up on the extremely inactive people. I also believe that analyzing player's behavior from past games will benefit us greatly, since it's easy to compare the posts, especially if the player is veteran (Ace, Bloodycobbler, Caller... etc.) According to the Mini Mafia games, Ace tends to be a dick and flame whenever he is a townie... but then again veterans have tons of experience so they can act like whatever role they want. Another notable thing is Chezinu, who, in mini mafia III was actually somewhat calm when compared to the way he is behaving right now. I believe that ridding the mafia of a veteran player will benefit us greatly, so I think we should all go to the past games and start analyzing the vets :D
I'm pretty sure Ver was not implying this at all. Also I've learned the hard way to never focus on behavioral analysis. You called out three players who wear many hats. Don't be fooled, this is their strategy, and you will misinterpret clues/kills as a result in the long run.
And Chezinu actually does the same thing every game. What he's doing is pretty similar, except he didn't send mass PM's and the brown group is not being promoted (yet..)
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On February 16 2010 01:11 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2010 01:06 Ace wrote:On February 16 2010 00:59 citi.zen wrote: Ace - I already did - see my post on page 45.
I am not going to explain my post person by person. Read my post and make up your own minds. Think critically, at this point nobody can "demonstrate" anything beyond doubt. Which is exactly why I asked the question. If you say the clues link me to both Mafia families it seems like you're trying to force the clues onto me rather than the other way around. How is it even possible that with so many players being Mafia this game that this can even happen? I think he meant it more in the way that there are more than one clue connected to you, so even if we're misinterpreting one of them, it gives a greater chance that one of the two clues refers to you. Correct me if I'm wrong though
No it doesn't. You could be wrong with one clue, two clues, every clue. No one knows whether anyone is interpreting these clues in an unbiased manner or whether you're forcing interpretation on a player based upon the knowledge you have about Ace (profile info etc...)
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by you I'm referring to a general "you," not you specifically
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hay thanks for listening, cya tomorrow !
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On February 17 2010 03:16 nemY wrote: I tallied up the list of ppl who made vote swaps. I may have made a mistake or two (in which case could someone double check it please?), but I feel like this may give a better clue to who our mafia may really be, and at least it it allows us to do some analysis, rather than say... making a list of ppl you "feel" are mafia
Chezinu 5x DoctorHelvetica 3x MasterDana 1x [NyC]HoBbes 1x 789 2x Bill Murray 6x BloodyC0bbler 1x tree.hugger 1x Fulgrim 1x Nikoner 2x Ace 2x Caller 2x Decafchicken 1x d3_crescentia 3x citi.zen 2x meeple 1x sidesprang 1x SugiuraMidori 1x Empyrean 1x (he’s dead now though)
Are you sure we should focus on those who made too many vote swaps? Maybe focus on the people who voted once, or those who voted very quickly and never swapped, those who voted in the last 5 hours of the election.
I think the vote swapping needs to be examined on a level deeper than saying "well player x swapped his vote 5 times." I'm always suspicious of people who abstain and then switch on to someone towards the end of the election. Those people should be looked at more than like, Chezinu who vote swaps because of whatever reason...like what type of soda he's drinking (this must be it).
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I was actually looking forward to working with Ace this time :/
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Ver I'm a little confused about your intentions at first. Looking back at Day 1 you really pushed for lynching BC, and then a couple of others thought it was a great idea too... so I'll just ask it here
What was your actual intention to putting BC on the chopping block originally? Did you really think posting behavioral comparisons would suggest that he was red? You don't seem like the type of person who would act so strongly based upon that, and we've seen before that we can't trust behavioral analysis (I've stated this numerous times this game, and no one has listened thusfar).
So you posted about BC here on page 14:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 14 2010 10:58 Ver wrote:Time to start things rolling. My primary suspect for the first lynch is Bloodyc0bbler. Obviously he's only posted twice since the game started, an election post and another useless psot. BC runs for election quite a bit. I've taken the liberty of gathering up his previous election campaigns so you can compare them. + Show Spoiler [Chuiu's game 5 as Townie] +On March 17 2009 17:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok everyone, unlike the flashy gimicks of caller, I offer substance to my platform!.
to start with heres my portfolio.
Name: BloodyC0bbler Mafia experience: 5(6 if you count callers as two go's), 1 game run, 1 game co hosted
Looking at just the one stat alone, I have the experience to lead this town to victory! In mafia 2, I was town aligned and we won, mafia 3 we as town dominated the mafia, mafia 4 was ruined by a jerkoff so well, can't really say much there. Tracils game ended early, but my side was winning. Callers first game ended day one with VI win, and his second game I as VI won.
I have a high precident of winning the games on the side im part of, with ability, and luck like that, I would be an obvious goodluck charm for the town.
Now, witha ll the extra things I do on TL (PX, Location thread, etc...) You guys know I spend way to much time here, giving me the most amount of time to really jump ontop of things, I can analyze clues well which is helpful in your sheriff.
That is my background,
As for what I will do for the town to win.
As sheriff or mayor, I will help guide the town where I can doing what I do best, Analysis. I can analyze clues, behaviour of players and guide us in a winning direction.
As sheriff, I can jail 4 people in a game once per person, this allows me to save potential targets from mafia in a night, or jail the mafia lowering their KP.
As mayor I can guide us towards killing the right suspect, and with a day 1 auto lynch, kill the person who is the most fishy to the town, but in the end, that will come to a consensus among the town first.
Now for a plan. We all know the town works better when organized, as such, neither mayor nor sheriff can guide this town to victory without being under suspect (we always flip as mayor or sheriff regardless of any other role).
So heres the plan.
Medics protect veteran players early. When one of them takes a hit, the medic should roleclaim to that person AND that person should claim they took a hit. That person then gets checked. They get the medic checked as well. If BOTH check out, they both come out and serve as figureheads for the town. They coordinate blue abilities but keep information on to the town.
When the person is hit they speak up. The sheriff then locks him up, protecting him from night hits while a dt checks him out. Once verified we repeat process with med, and have two figureheads, as opposed to the regular one.
In the event the person who is hit doesnt speak up, the medic speaks up, we verify them first, then the one hit after.
This is our best chance at getting town leadership quickly. + Show Spoiler [Qatol's game 8 as Traitor] +On May 16 2009 15:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: OK BOYO'S!
Ok guys, this game will be the hardest one potentially we have ever done, as such we need to get the mafia as soon as this game starts. I've shown a record of insane amount of clue analyzing from previous games, as such I believe I would make a good candidate for the town to keep alive. I however, would prefer to be pardoner, this allows me to help prevent potentially townbreaking lynches.
As mayor, I would analyze the clues (as this is my forte) and bring them to your attention and direct votes on the best possible suspects, thus bringing the town some central leadership to avoid chaos.
As pardoner, I would do generally the same idea, however, would use my ability to prevent lynches on cases where it appeared someone with no links was up for no reason.
Vote for order, vote for BloodyC0bbler
+ Show Spoiler [Plexa's game 12, Townie] +On July 03 2009 07:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: OK first off
I AM RUNNING FOR OFFICE
I am already seeing idiocy of players that has led to many vets getting insanely discouraged with playing these games. I appreciate Plexa for trying to make this game interesting with the addition of different roles, tweaking how some work, and the addition of fog. Now lets outline why I should be in office.
Weather
I'm already seeing debate on weather, and You guys are saying opt for rain? We have two medics, each have an extra life, and they can protect people. Historically medics have sucked more than any other role in the game, IE don't depend on them early game, how hard is this to understand, MEDICS DO NOT WIN GAMES. This instantly gets rid of the damn rain option.
Next we have sunny which allows our assassins to attack. If you guys vote for this I will kill you. EVEN IF they hit a mafia, which we all jump and joy in, there is a chance they hit the godfather, and guess what, this means the godfather role gets given to another mafia and we have to find the damn guy again, way to much effort, so sunny isn't an option we want, also vigi roles aren't always reliable, lynches are where we have to win, so SUNNY is out.
Next we have snow, snow is useful for hey additional clues. Guess what, most of the top clue analyzers from all previous games aren't in this one, IE the amount of people benefiting from these clues is so damn small its not worth voting on, so we ignore snow.
This leaves fog, ie WE SPAM FOG. All greens should be voting fog every day to keep it going. It removes the pledges kp from the mafia. So if there would be at least 1 possibly as high as 3 or 4 pledges. This will reduce a KP from the mafia meaning 1-2 less people die at night. THAT IS A GUARENTEE. Medics are not guarenteed to protect so this is a safer bet. So we spam fog until the pledges are all dead, then move on to a different weather. Also note, with fog reducing the mafia KP, the suicide bomber will be less likely to use his ability as it removes even more kp from them.
Leadership In most games I have played, I have worked in some way in town circles working for the benefit of the town, many times leading to a win for the town. This gives me the experience to help lead the town and help keep it organized. The towns in the last few games have been reduced to very small voices screaming at a mass of chaos and leads to failure, it has to stop. I would make an excellent choice for the leadership purely based off my experience at keeping some form of order. Untop of that, for once I am one of a very few in terms of a specific skill. I, as ive said in other games, clue analyze. Out of the current player base of this game, Myself and Pyrr are most likely most known for spending time on clues (there may be one or two people from pyrr's game , but i didnt pay much attention to it). This means either him or myself should have the bg protection purely to keep us alive to use that skill. I will do my best to keep us alive.
Double Lynch I will make sure we get these used on top mafia targets, IE if we have two insanely guilty looking people, double lynch will be used. We wont have to worry about constantly voting for double lynch one day, then worrying mafia stop it. IT WILL GET USED and by god it will get by the town.
These are merely a few points, but seriously with the debate of what to vote on for weather, A strong player is needed as the emperor or we are all fucked.
Vote for me
but more importantly VOTE FOR FOG + Show Spoiler [This game] +On February 14 2010 07:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As the game as begun, it is time to get it started.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for the position of mayor.
I believe the town can easily win this if we work together, as a concise unit, and do so before the mafia can create their own plans. Action must happen now. My campaign is on a platform of strength. I believe I have the strength to help pull this town together. I can analyze clues, behaviour, and can help guide blues to where they should act. The more we work together, the less we have to lose. The first lynch at the moment, as there is nothing to really go on, I believe is moot unless someone gives themself away obviously. Therefore I would lynch the most inactive player, or in the case of someone giving themself away, that person. Any other choice should be pardon'd instantly.
Vote for unity, Vote for strength, Vote for bloodyc0bbler Notice the similarities between the two games he was innocent. He comes in with a plan, goes into detail, and gives genuine advice. In his game as a traitor, he offers nothing, says random gibberish, and is basically goofing off. He makes no serious attempt to do anything. Exactly like his campaign post this game. BC is a vet, and has played more games than almost anyone else (I think only Ace and maybe Caller leads him). He's also hosted a bunch of games as well (3). He knows what needs to be done. He knows what a mayor needs, he knows how to act as a townie; negligence is not an excuse. BC is acting very out of character and it's so blatant that it's obvious from just 1 post.
And then on page 21 you were brought up by someone and their tag-along buddy....
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111913¤tpage=21
On February 14 2010 13:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ver has been the most sensible so far imo
His accusation of bloodycobbler is based on a change in bc's posting strategy and not the loose and broad clues from Day 1. He's advocating keeping the clues in mind until they become effective later in the game: a reasonable assertion.
I also think we should be using these clues to profile the mafia, rather than starting analytical arguments/trying to accuse anyone already. It seems a bit suspicious that L is already trying to paint Ace red based on the clues when all of the experienced players are saying that using day 1 clues to lynch/accuse is just stupid.
Ace's posting style is a bit arrogant and aggressive for my tastes and I disagree that clues are essentially useless, but his point is fair. Clues, if anything, should be a helping point for our DT's and something used in the late-game
On February 14 2010 13:45 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 13:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ver has been the most sensible so far imo
His accusation of bloodycobbler is based on a change in bc's posting strategy and not the loose and broad clues from Day 1. He's advocating keeping the clues in mind until they become effective later in the game: a reasonable assertion.
I also think we should be using these clues to profile the mafia, rather than starting analytical arguments/trying to accuse anyone already. It seems a bit suspicious that L is already trying to paint Ace red based on the clues when all of the experienced players are saying that using day 1 clues to lynch/accuse is just stupid.
Ace's posting style is a bit arrogant and aggressive for my tastes and I disagree that clues are essentially useless, but his point is fair. Clues, if anything, should be a helping point for our DT's and something used in the late-game I agree that actually acting on clues should be saved for late-game, but discussing them is helpful all game, as more discussion early game=more paper trail late game
On February 14 2010 14:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote: If I were elected, I'd probably lynch Bloodycobbler. The accusations against him are at least based on posting behavior and referenced through other mafia games
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guess my concern/question got answered if I had waited 5 minutes....
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Ugh I went back and re-read starting from page 14 until about page 30 (so far) and I've gone through every bs post, stupid argument, unbelievable accusation etc...
People who should be looked at because they were misleading in day 1:
L: -Strongly advocates clue analysis and explains why its good in this game (pg 16) -Forcing clues to match Ace as a suspect (pg 17) -Shows us he sucks at math and doesn't realize that 8 + 8 = 16, not 18 (pg 19) -BC openly asks why L likes clue analysis, and L claims he has a "sterling" record (pg 21) -Still pushing for the clues against Ace (pg 23) -Wants to kill the moonlight rider, not necessarily Ace (pg 24) -Believes that the moonlight rider might be 789 (pg 24) -Believes the clues of fire, angels and radiance may point to Empyrean (pg 25) -Still thinks Ace and Mystlord are the two strongest lynch candidates (pg 25) -Claims that the clues are so strong and we must utilize them (pg 25)
Chezinu: -Just plain annoying to read (pg 16 - current)
Bill Murray -No explanation required(pg 14 - pg 30)
People who should be looked at who are extremely useless from Day 1 (first half or so and in no particular order):
Iaaan: -useless post implicating BC (pg 15) -Agrees with meeple about something (pg 15) -More useless gibberish (pg 16) -Feels that the mafia families are the best weapons for the town (pg 17) -Argues with Ace that clues aren't primary, but claims Ace said they shouldn't be looked at in the first place (pg 17) -Insists that L's clue analysis is definite and points to Ace (pg 18) -More useless posts (pg 19) -More useless posts (pg 20) -Again... (pg 23)
Meeple: -Everything :facepalm: (pg 14) -Twice again (pg 16) -Arguing with Ace asking for suspects and believes clues should be looked at heavily (pg 17) -Meeple then tries to give us a variable lesson after Abenson (pg 17) -More useless posts between him and Absenson (pg 18) -More useless posts about clues (pg 18) -More useless posts towards Chezinu, as well as informing us that we should hung mafia, no shit (pg 19)
Sidespring: -Weak clue analysis against Ver (pg 15) -Agrees not to lynch immediately based upon clues, but gives no effort in aiding discussion of any sort (pg 16)
Abenson: -Agrees with Ace, only because everyone "should" agree with Ace. (pg 16) -Let us know Chezinu PM'ed him on the 10th, thanks Abenson (pg 16) -Throwing out more useless information about a past mafia game, and trying to teach us about variables (pg 17) -Can't think of anything helpful to say, so he lets us all know (pg 21)
Fulgrim: -Comes in and talks about how clues are important blah blah (pg 18) -Votes for Ver because he has the best posts so far, congrats Ver! (pg 18) -Won't vote for Ace because he's not accusing anybody (pg 18)
People who should be looked at with a careful eye, not too suspicious, just not really helping...
Cyanmachine: -Claims he read everything, but never saw the list of people who were running for mayor, or their posts? (pg 21) -Still unsure as to who's running for mayor, proving he didn't read shit (pg 22)
Faronel: -Provides no contribution and rehashes everything that has been said in the past 8 pages (pg 22) -Made a newb mistake and edited a post, probably just a newb mistake (pg 22)
Fishball: -Always up for seeing BC dead, no reason (pg 15)
[NyC]Hobbes: -Rambling about how clues help the town and that it worked in a previous game (pg 20) -Rambles about how we should use clue analysis in the late game (pg 21) -Supports citi.zen for mayor because of his performance last game (pg 23) -Does not support Ace, ver, or L because of shaky analysis and finger pointing (pg 23) -Wants to kill someone based upon clues and clues alone, that person being Ace (pg 24) -Believes that going back after Ace is killed will give us insight about the players who accused him (pg 24) -Notes that killing someone like Chezinu is useless for the town, if our only reason is because they are annoying (pg 24)
MasterDana: -Ran for mayor on a shitty platform (pg 14) -Makes an even shittier post right after (pg 14)
I'm not suggesting anybody here is mafia, but they have ties to every player who was killed and have been contributing constantly to the derailment of this game within a 16 page period (except for the top three).
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By the way based upon my own analysis I should be a suspect as well. I made little contribution to Day 1, but I am not going to go through my own posts
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On February 17 2010 15:36 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2010 15:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: Ugh I went back and re-read starting from page 14 until about page 30 (so far) and I've gone through every bs post, stupid argument, unbelievable accusation etc...
People who should be looked at because they were misleading in day 1:
L: -Strongly advocates clue analysis and explains why its good in this game (pg 16) -Forcing clues to match Ace as a suspect (pg 17) -Shows us he sucks at math and doesn't realize that 8 + 8 = 16, not 18 (pg 19) -BC openly asks why L likes clue analysis, and L claims he has a "sterling" record (pg 21) -Still pushing for the clues against Ace (pg 23) -Wants to kill the moonlight rider, not necessarily Ace (pg 24) -Believes that the moonlight rider might be 789 (pg 24) -Believes the clues of fire, angels and radiance may point to Empyrean (pg 25) -Still thinks Ace and Mystlord are the two strongest lynch candidates (pg 25) -Claims that the clues are so strong and we must utilize them (pg 25)
Chezinu: -Just plain annoying to read (pg 16 - current)
Bill Murray -No explanation required(pg 14 - pg 30)
People who should be looked at who are extremely useless from Day 1 (first half or so and in no particular order):
Iaaan: -useless post implicating BC (pg 15) -Agrees with meeple about something (pg 15) -More useless gibberish (pg 16) -Feels that the mafia families are the best weapons for the town (pg 17) -Argues with Ace that clues aren't primary, but claims Ace said they shouldn't be looked at in the first place (pg 17) -Insists that L's clue analysis is definite and points to Ace (pg 18) -More useless posts (pg 19) -More useless posts (pg 20) -Again... (pg 23)
Meeple: -Everything :facepalm: (pg 14) -Twice again (pg 16) -Arguing with Ace asking for suspects and believes clues should be looked at heavily (pg 17) -Meeple then tries to give us a variable lesson after Abenson (pg 17) -More useless posts between him and Absenson (pg 18) -More useless posts about clues (pg 18) -More useless posts towards Chezinu, as well as informing us that we should hung mafia, no shit (pg 19)
Sidespring: -Weak clue analysis against Ver (pg 15) -Agrees not to lynch immediately based upon clues, but gives no effort in aiding discussion of any sort (pg 16)
Abenson: -Agrees with Ace, only because everyone "should" agree with Ace. (pg 16) -Let us know Chezinu PM'ed him on the 10th, thanks Abenson (pg 16) -Throwing out more useless information about a past mafia game, and trying to teach us about variables (pg 17) -Can't think of anything helpful to say, so he lets us all know (pg 21)
Fulgrim: -Comes in and talks about how clues are important blah blah (pg 18) -Votes for Ver because he has the best posts so far, congrats Ver! (pg 18) -Won't vote for Ace because he's not accusing anybody (pg 18)
People who should be looked at with a careful eye, not too suspicious, just not really helping...
Cyanmachine: -Claims he read everything, but never saw the list of people who were running for mayor, or their posts? (pg 21) -Still unsure as to who's running for mayor, proving he didn't read shit (pg 22)
Faronel: -Provides no contribution and rehashes everything that has been said in the past 8 pages (pg 22) -Made a newb mistake and edited a post, probably just a newb mistake (pg 22)
Fishball: -Always up for seeing BC dead, no reason (pg 15)
[NyC]Hobbes: -Rambling about how clues help the town and that it worked in a previous game (pg 20) -Rambles about how we should use clue analysis in the late game (pg 21) -Supports citi.zen for mayor because of his performance last game (pg 23) -Does not support Ace, ver, or L because of shaky analysis and finger pointing (pg 23) -Wants to kill someone based upon clues and clues alone, that person being Ace (pg 24) -Believes that going back after Ace is killed will give us insight about the players who accused him (pg 24) -Notes that killing someone like Chezinu is useless for the town, if our only reason is because they are annoying (pg 24)
MasterDana: -Ran for mayor on a shitty platform (pg 14) -Makes an even shittier post right after (pg 14)
I'm not suggesting anybody here is mafia, but they have ties to every player who was killed and have been contributing constantly to the derailment of this game within a 16 page period (except for the top three). Congratulations, you've managed to violently misrepresent nearly everything I've said this game so far. In response to each of your bullet points: 1- I stand by the idea that clues can help the town, nothing much to say here except that believing that clues help the town as much as they help the mafia, and backing it up with a previous example doesn't really strike me as a suspicious action. 2- You've entirely missed the point of this post, which is that discussing clues is helpful all game because it gives us more information on people who post analysis and arguments. 3- I withdrew my vote from citizen once he became inactive and his play began to differ from the play last game, and, since Ace turned out green, I'm not wrong that L's finger pointing at him was based on shaky analysis, am I? 4- Urgh. I don't even know where to start with this one. I made a number of points in this post, the main gist of it being that the first lynch is essentially random, and that following clues is better than following nothing, with the added bonus that it leaves a paper trail. I didn't say that the person we should lynch was Ace and only Ace, I said that since the current clue consensus at the time seemed to point to Ace, and he was generating the most discussion, I'd use him as the example to be discussed in my post. I had noticed some people posting arguments that Ace as a veteran player needed to be kept around, and, in order to get my point across without a bunch of people posting "but we NEED Ace!!! OMG what r u thinking!" and entirely missing the point of the post, I posted an analysis of why Ace was not sacrosanct. I then continued to support my previous argument that analyzing clues produces paper trails that can track mafia. 5- Killing someone because they are annoying is completely pointless, regardless of who they are. Since someone had said they didn't want to waste a lynch, I was using an example to support them. I would love to know why my posting my analysis of the game is constantly contributing to the derailment of the thread. I would also love for you to expand on the "connections" I have to every one of the dead players. If you think my posting or behavior is suspicious, give me a legitimate argument to defend against, don't just post my name in a list of people you want everyone to "watch with a careful eye" while misrepresenting everything I've said in bullet points. P.S.- I'm extremely curious as to how you define the word "rambling", when you say that my 2 and 4 line posts are rambling while my 5 paragraph one isn't.
Because your "5 paragraph post" was not rambling. It was semi-substantive and I'll pull something that was helpful:
Since the current consensus on the clues seems to point to Ace, I'll use him for an example. Regardless of which way Ace flips, I don't think getting rid of him is necessarily a bad idea. If we were to lynch Ace and he flips red, we'll gain interesting insight into how Incognito's clues are going to work for this game, and we'll gain some information about those who are defending him so vehemently. If he flips green, we'll know that the clues aren't as obvious as they seem, and we could get some information from reading back over the posts of people who were accusing him.
Is it the best reason to support lynching Ace? No of course not, but at least you're thinking long-term, not like some of the other players subtly wanted Ace dead.
Now lets go back to the "rambling" posts I was referring to:
On February 14 2010 13:32 [NyC]HoBbes wrote: I agree with citizen that clues help the town at least as much as the mafia, if you look at Incognito's last game, clue analysis provided most of the incriminating posts by mafia members the town used to get them lynched.
blah blah blah you're playing with Pros here... they don't get too flustered over clue analysis so it doesn't have equal value.
On February 14 2010 13:45 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2010 13:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Ver has been the most sensible so far imo
His accusation of bloodycobbler is based on a change in bc's posting strategy and not the loose and broad clues from Day 1. He's advocating keeping the clues in mind until they become effective later in the game: a reasonable assertion.
I also think we should be using these clues to profile the mafia, rather than starting analytical arguments/trying to accuse anyone already. It seems a bit suspicious that L is already trying to paint Ace red based on the clues when all of the experienced players are saying that using day 1 clues to lynch/accuse is just stupid.
Ace's posting style is a bit arrogant and aggressive for my tastes and I disagree that clues are essentially useless, but his point is fair. Clues, if anything, should be a helping point for our DT's and something used in the late-game I agree that actually acting on clues should be saved for late-game, but discussing them is helpful all game, as more discussion early game=more paper trail late game
you're just full of helpful information... really? I'm sure no one was actually aware of that, and DoctorHelvetica needed that support because his point wasn't clear enough as it is.
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Also I want to note that we should really be focusing on who had aggression towards Ace in Day 1. It's a place to start looking for people who felt he was a threat, which could have been either mafia family, or even townies.
I'm interested in hearing from L what his "sterling" clue analysis will bring us for Day 2. I mean lets check his "sterling" record this game:
-Ace (townie)
-Empyrean (townie) -789
I'm going to post this so we remember...
On February 14 2010 16:05 Ace wrote: I'd vote for Ver or BC because I have more trust in them than any other candidate. My rule for elected positions is to vote for good, sensible players that won't do anything radical unless something out of the blue pops up and gives me a different reason.
@Hobbes: If someone keeps egging me on based on clues, then I die and flip green you should lynch the accuser. You forgot to mention that in your post. Everyone should be held accountable. If we let people point fingers and an innocent gets lynched and they get away with an "oops", then everyone is going to do it.
True we didn't lynch Ace, but L was really gunning for him. Was this because he wanted to see who would blindly follow? Or was he really fighting with Ace? I think we should be smart about this and remember that someones clue analysis is not quite as good as he's claiming it to be.
And have we exhausted the thought that Bill Murray could be mafia? I mean he did pretty much smear his own campaign and made a lot of people turn heads, yet we lynched Empyrean anyway...
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On February 18 2010 00:48 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2010 00:30 789 wrote: Also I threw this possibility out before. Is it possible that zato was killed by a bomb? This possibility wouldn't exclude BC getting double hit and ver (if he's telling the truth) absorbing a hit from last night. The hits would still add up to 6. He was killed when he opened his door ... by a bunch of metal sharp objects. Now I don't know how much you guys know about homemade bombs ... but if you want to increase their killing power you pack them with small metal objects to act as shrapnel. This could also explain the hole in the wall. There was a mafia member talked about in the paragraph ... but nothing of really important detail. He knocked on the door but was nowhere to be seen when zato opened it and was killed. I think its either possible that the mafia member used a bomb to kill him (for a clue) or it was a bomb of BC (from madhatter ability). It definitely sounds like shrapnel or glass or something like that. But in previous games when someone has died form a mad hatter bomb, the day post says something at the end like "and mysteriously, on the other side of town, Infundibulum exploded in a shower of blood while he was sleeping!." So I'm pretty sure this is a mafia killer. We don't even know if BC placed a bomb last night anyway, though i wouldn't be too surprised if had placed it on Ver due to their disagreements in the thread.
Not entirely true. Based upon discussion from Day 1 it was apparent that BC actually believed that Ver had the best platform for candidacy, and also believed that if Ver lynched BC, that it would look really bad.
And besides if he had placed a bomb on Ver then Ver would be dead, which he's not.
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Glad to see you got the full scoop on everybody.. probably can't get a chance to go through the last 50 pages until tonight anyway. I'll continue from here on out to look at what people are up to.
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On February 18 2010 05:53 Abenson wrote: Alright... Thanks to some of you guys pm'ing me to remind me that I should start contributing to the town and being a good member of the society... In order for us to survive, I think all of need to contribute. I'm sorry that I haven't really contributed so far, but I will now start posting actual information.
Then do it already.
You're sitting here talking about how you should and that you're going to, but then you end up posting this BS and you will probably quote a few people and be like 'oh I agree.'
Start doing something already.
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On February 23 2010 18:32 Ace wrote: ^^^totally agreed. If you don't like your role, or don't intend to play to win then just quit playing all together.
and he hath said that 40 pages later he would rise from the dead... ashes to ashes dust to dust...
...take this... all of you and drink from it, this is the blood of Ace as he was murdered 40 pages ago...
..he hath come back to reconcile his differences with shitty players by smiting them with the almighty MODKILL.
Our lord and savior Ace...
Amen.
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