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 {CC}StealthBlue United States. June 21 2012 08:27. Posts 15278 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 06:14 pallad wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 01:11 xDaunt wrote:
I feel like the AI is slower at research. I'm playing on immortal with a coastal start where most of my good tiles in my capital are sea tiles (these are notoriously slow starts), and I'm leading in tech at around turn 100 after doing a 2 city + national college build. More impressively, I was never really far behind at any point (I think may 2-3% at most in the literacy rankings). I haven't played on immortal for a while, but I don't recall ever taking the tech lead on immortal this early.
Also, when the AI comes at you with an army now, they really come at you with an army. In my first G&K immortal game, I got trampled by Caesar on about turn 50 when he attacked me with 2 ballistae, 4 archers, 2 warriors, and 2 spearmen. I had about 4 archers and a couple warriors, which in the past was sufficient defense at that point in the game. However, Caesar simply ran my ass over. I think part of the problem is that killing off units is slower in G&K with the new hp/damage system. It was often taking 4 volleys to kill stuff off with archers rather than the usual 2-3. The other problem is that catapults/ballistae don't require iron any more, which makes it really easy to take cities early.
@{CC}StealthBlue I think that you must send spy to city , under your religion influence , like I wirte up i was sending spy to city near my border , and that city was having some followers of my religion.
But besides that there is nothing really major to spy on if you are so far ahead in Techs, that and rigging elections in City States which take several turns. Even that is down to personal choice as to what your priorities are be it Faith, Culture, or even Happiness.
Keep in mind if you are neck and neck with another Civ you should have a Spy back in your city(ies) and one in theirs not relying on a Spy to hopefully have a successful Coup for just one CS.Last edit: 2012-06-21 08:32:19 |
| | It'll take a lot more than words and guns ... The hands of many must join as one, and together we'll cross the river. |
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 pallad Poland. June 21 2012 09:01. Posts 1713 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 08:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 06:14 pallad wrote:
On June 21 2012 01:11 xDaunt wrote:
I feel like the AI is slower at research. I'm playing on immortal with a coastal start where most of my good tiles in my capital are sea tiles (these are notoriously slow starts), and I'm leading in tech at around turn 100 after doing a 2 city + national college build. More impressively, I was never really far behind at any point (I think may 2-3% at most in the literacy rankings). I haven't played on immortal for a while, but I don't recall ever taking the tech lead on immortal this early.
Also, when the AI comes at you with an army now, they really come at you with an army. In my first G&K immortal game, I got trampled by Caesar on about turn 50 when he attacked me with 2 ballistae, 4 archers, 2 warriors, and 2 spearmen. I had about 4 archers and a couple warriors, which in the past was sufficient defense at that point in the game. However, Caesar simply ran my ass over. I think part of the problem is that killing off units is slower in G&K with the new hp/damage system. It was often taking 4 volleys to kill stuff off with archers rather than the usual 2-3. The other problem is that catapults/ballistae don't require iron any more, which makes it really easy to take cities early.
@{CC}StealthBlue I think that you must send spy to city , under your religion influence , like I wirte up i was sending spy to city near my border , and that city was having some followers of my religion.
But besides that there is nothing really major to spy on if you are so far ahead in Techs, that and rigging elections in City States which take several turns. Even that is down to personal choice as to what your priorities are be it Faith, Culture, or even Happiness. Keep in mind if you are neck and neck with another Civ you should have a Spy back in your city(ies) and one in theirs not relying on a Spy to hopefully have a successful Coup for just one CS.
Then maby you should play on higher difficulty ? , you write that you dont have anything to steal because you are way ahead ? if yes.. try higher difficult 
The fact is im playing first game only on this expansion and i dont know exacly how spy work , but I can easy steal tech from other players , like iwrite i steal 4 or techs now in around 170 turn. And other thing is im behind , because i curently play on diffucult that i never beat in orginal Civ 5. |
| | SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD |
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| Candadar June 21 2012 11:15. Posts 1791 | Profile Blog # |
113 hours in Civ V.
Hopefully this reinvigorates my interest.
Was going to wait it out, but fuck it, going balls deep and purchased it. |
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| Cel.erity United States. June 21 2012 11:29. Posts 3584 | Profile Blog # |
My experience on Deity and even Immortal is that the game is much, much harder. I think the reason most people find it easier is because the game now caters to "balanced" strategies instead of "focused" (or in some cases, degenerate) strategies. It is now much harder to beeline and defeat the AI with some rush or pop a bunch of GSes and RAs to get free tech. To me, this means the advantage the AI gets in higher difficulties is much more pronounced, because you're forced to play fair with them.
Anyway, difficulty aside, I love the expansion. I feel like I have to relearn everything I know about Civ V to beat it again, but it's worth it. Religion is a lot of fun and the new civs are pretty flavorful. |
| | We found Dove in a soapless place. |
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| Pobearo United States. June 21 2012 12:10. Posts 348 | Profile # |
| I just picked up Gods and Kings, but is there some kind of in depth guide out there for Civ 5 in general? I played Civ 2 a little as a kid, but I've never really gotten deep into the Civ games. I spend most of my time confused about what to do and questioning my descisions. Any guides or advice would be appreciated, looking forward to this! |
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| Ana_ Finland. June 21 2012 12:14. Posts 99 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 12:10 Pobearo wrote:
I just picked up Gods and Kings, but is there some kind of in depth guide out there for Civ 5 in general? I played Civ 2 a little as a kid, but I've never really gotten deep into the Civ games. I spend most of my time confused about what to do and questioning my descisions. Any guides or advice would be appreciated, looking forward to this!
Reading manual is always good idea. Also, listen to your advisors ingame. |
| | Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. |
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| Sub40APM June 21 2012 15:00. Posts 2017 | Profile # |
I like the customization of the religion. Wish it would spread faster in your empire though, seems silly to have a holy city in a monarchy and everyone else is heathen.
Also, the early game is still a bit of a snooze, it takes so long to make anything that wars dont really get going until 1000 BCish at the earliest. Also, always nice to see the ole cross-continental war is still alive and well in the realm of the Ai. |
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| pedduck Thailand. June 21 2012 18:55. Posts 418 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 11:29 Cel.erity wrote:
My experience on Deity and even Immortal is that the game is much, much harder. I think the reason most people find it easier is because the game now caters to "balanced" strategies instead of "focused" (or in some cases, degenerate) strategies. It is now much harder to beeline and defeat the AI with some rush or pop a bunch of GSes and RAs to get free tech. To me, this means the advantage the AI gets in higher difficulties is much more pronounced, because you're forced to play fair with them.
Anyway, difficulty aside, I love the expansion. I feel like I have to relearn everything I know about Civ V to beat it again, but it's worth it. Religion is a lot of fun and the new civs are pretty flavorful.
I try Deity once and I could not last through Medieval Era. I tried again last week with editor (cheat) that gave me 50000 gold at beginning of the game, I still lost the war in modern era. I can only beat king difficulty. How do you play on Deity?? |
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| duckii Germany. June 21 2012 20:08. Posts 800 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 18:55 pedduck wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:29 Cel.erity wrote:
My experience on Deity and even Immortal is that the game is much, much harder. I think the reason most people find it easier is because the game now caters to "balanced" strategies instead of "focused" (or in some cases, degenerate) strategies. It is now much harder to beeline and defeat the AI with some rush or pop a bunch of GSes and RAs to get free tech. To me, this means the advantage the AI gets in higher difficulties is much more pronounced, because you're forced to play fair with them.
Anyway, difficulty aside, I love the expansion. I feel like I have to relearn everything I know about Civ V to beat it again, but it's worth it. Religion is a lot of fun and the new civs are pretty flavorful.
I try Deity once and I could not last through Medieval Era. I tried again last week with editor (cheat) that gave me 50000 gold at beginning of the game, I still lost the war in modern era. I can only beat king difficulty. How do you play on Deity??
http://www.youtube.com/user/SBFMadDjinn does let's play on deity. |
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| Cel.erity United States. June 21 2012 21:02. Posts 3584 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 20:08 duckii wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 18:55 pedduck wrote:
On June 21 2012 11:29 Cel.erity wrote:
My experience on Deity and even Immortal is that the game is much, much harder. I think the reason most people find it easier is because the game now caters to "balanced" strategies instead of "focused" (or in some cases, degenerate) strategies. It is now much harder to beeline and defeat the AI with some rush or pop a bunch of GSes and RAs to get free tech. To me, this means the advantage the AI gets in higher difficulties is much more pronounced, because you're forced to play fair with them.
Anyway, difficulty aside, I love the expansion. I feel like I have to relearn everything I know about Civ V to beat it again, but it's worth it. Religion is a lot of fun and the new civs are pretty flavorful.
I try Deity once and I could not last through Medieval Era. I tried again last week with editor (cheat) that gave me 50000 gold at beginning of the game, I still lost the war in modern era. I can only beat king difficulty. How do you play on Deity??
does let's play on deity.
Yeah, well basically like I said, there are various ways to predict the AI and understand timings to be able to put together a winning Deity strategy. With G+K though, those are all out the window. Nothing you see in the videos on that channel will work anymore. I imagine it's still easy with the Huns or Austria, but I have yet to give it a "serious" go, I'm mostly trying to play around with the new systems.
Think of it like Starcraft, where a new unbeatable TvZ strategy has been found, and now the Zerg needs to adapt. If you figure out a flaw to expose, you can beat Deity with regularity, but my impression is that winning Deity now will be more about getting perfect starts and having tight, balanced play as opposed to cheesing with some timing build. |
| | We found Dove in a soapless place. |
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| leveller Sweden. June 21 2012 21:27. Posts 1814 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 12:10 Pobearo wrote:
I just picked up Gods and Kings, but is there some kind of in depth guide out there for Civ 5 in general? I played Civ 2 a little as a kid, but I've never really gotten deep into the Civ games. I spend most of my time confused about what to do and questioning my descisions. Any guides or advice would be appreciated, looking forward to this!
First step is not to listen to advisers or recommendations in game most of the time to be honest. If you want in depht (sp?) analysis, the best civ forum is civfanatics.com, they have discussion for civ 4 and older civs as well, and lots of detailed knowledge.
I played the older civs so I can give a little help perhaps.
A few basic first steps is understanding happiness in this civ, which is global. You want to stay positive, an in order to do so you must have buildings, policies (techs you research with culture), and unique luxury resourses. Overall population and number of cities increase unhappiness. Thus you want most cities to be founded next to a unique (you don't have it yet) luxury resource.
Second is the importance of gold, which no longer matters for science, but can be used to buy tiles, buildings and units. FOr maintenance purposes and because of the general lack of production compared to earlier civs, you don't want to build any unecessary buildings that cost maintenance in cities which doesn't need them. Very important is also to trade any surplous happiness resources to the AI for I believe 240 gold maximum on standard speed.
Third is a general advice, which is to have plenty of workers, at least 1 per city. Workers improve the tiles your cities work with their population, and a city is severely crippled if it only has unimproved tiles to work.
Automation is ok I guess, but you want to learn yourself to make the most of your empire. Prioritize food at first, and later specialize cities for different purposes (mines and lumbermills for production cities (which makes military), trade posts for cities focused on gold (and who prioritize buildings such as markets), plenty of jungle,which gives a boost after university, for cities focused on science (tip is that you can also build trade posts on jungles without removing them).
Fourth, is to make sure you build units, because the ai WILL attack if you are too weak. In fact, it is often profitable and easy to war every now and again, the ai isn't too bright and with just a few catapults and a decent amount of the best soldiers avaliable you should be able to start taking cities. This also means you can't go completely wonder crazy, since you need to focus production on an army as well, but on the other hand you can take those wonders from the AI later on anyway.
Best is if they declare on you, since you start getting global hatred after your first war declaration. But one is free 
When it comes to puppeting, annexing or razing enemy cities, in general you should raze useless ones, puppet non-spectacular cities and spam all their tiles with trade posts, and annex the best ones. Puppeting doesn't allow you to chose production, but they are at least initially less unhappy than annexed ones, and they don't increase the cost of various other things.
The Liberty tree in social policies is often the best to start and complete asap. After that it is up to you.
Wow this turned out longer than expected... Hope it helps you on the right track.
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| | Fan of Morrow, White-Ra, Thorzain, MC, July, Tasteless and Psy. |
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| pallad Poland. June 21 2012 21:28. Posts 1713 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 15:00 Sub40APM wrote:
I like the customization of the religion. Wish it would spread faster in your empire though, seems silly to have a holy city in a monarchy and everyone else is heathen.
Also, the early game is still a bit of a snooze, it takes so long to make anything that wars dont really get going until 1000 BCish at the earliest. Also, always nice to see the ole cross-continental war is still alive and well in the realm of the Ai.
And ofc you are using missionary to spread it faster yes ? , you can buy missionary for faith , hey cost 200 faith. I have no problems with my religion spread. |
| | SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD |
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| Candadar June 22 2012 04:15. Posts 1791 | Profile Blog # |
I'm in just a bad spot for this war, but I think I got it figured out.
Red is basically the kill zones. I can be hit by either both cities, or a city and their catapult. This is by far the most annoying fucking war I've ever had the pleasure of fighting because of the restricted movement everywhere and the tightness of it all. It's all common sense from the picture, yellow represents an unfinished catapult being built. I feel that once I take Barcelona, that Madrid should be easy taking. However, jesus christ just taking Barcelona is going to be hard. This plan is probably going to fall apart because he probably has another 5 trillion catapults built in addition to the one he warded me off last time with.
Once I secure this island (and all dem resources) Ethiopia is next. Love the game so far by the way. Playing on Prince just to get back into things, and it's definitely MUCH better than I remember. The AI is also abusing terrain and is being smart about this invasion. It knows it has the defenders advantage and it's letting me throw units away. I've lost 3 swordsman, a composite bowman, and a spearman already. I was already considering peacing out. Shit is cash.
+ Show Spoiler + |
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| Sub40APM June 22 2012 04:19. Posts 2017 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 21:28 pallad wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 15:00 Sub40APM wrote:
I like the customization of the religion. Wish it would spread faster in your empire though, seems silly to have a holy city in a monarchy and everyone else is heathen.
Also, the early game is still a bit of a snooze, it takes so long to make anything that wars dont really get going until 1000 BCish at the earliest. Also, always nice to see the ole cross-continental war is still alive and well in the realm of the Ai.
And ofc you are using missionary to spread it faster yes ? , you can buy missionary for faith , hey cost 200 faith. I have no problems with my religion spread.
Yes but think about it. Your religion arrives at 200 faith, you have to wait another 200 faith for your first missionary. That can be up to 50 turns if you discovered religion early enough. I am not aware of any religion that takes 500 years to spread from its main center to a smaller city within the same empire.
Later in the game of course, when your faith is +50 then yea, obviously its easy to spread religion.
So ya, I wish religion spread faster within your empire, also that combat in pre-steel era was a bit more involved but the units are just too expensive to mass up enough to over run a city, even with catapults. |
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| TheToast United States. June 22 2012 04:20. Posts 4804 | Profile Blog # |
On June 22 2012 04:15 Candadar wrote:I'm in just a bad spot for this war, but I think I got it figured out. Red is basically the kill zones. I can be hit by either both cities, or a city and their catapult. This is by far the most annoying fucking war I've ever had the pleasure of fighting because of the restricted movement everywhere and the tightness of it all. It's all common sense from the picture, yellow represents an unfinished catapult being built. I feel that once I take Barcelona, that Madrid should be easy taking. However, jesus christ just taking Barcelona is going to be hard. This plan is probably going to fall apart because he probably has another 5 trillion catapults built in addition to the one he warded me off last time with. Once I secure this island (and all dem resources) Ethiopia is next. Love the game so far by the way. Playing on Prince just to get back into things, and it's definitely MUCH better than I remember. The AI is also abusing terrain and is being smart about this invasion. It knows it has the defenders advantage and it's letting me throw units away. I've lost 3 swordsman, a composite bowman, and a spearman already. I was already considering peacing out. Shit is cash. + Show Spoiler +
See this is why the hex system is great, adds a lot of strategy into the game and really makes terrain mean something. They just need to address some other issues.
I wouldn't be surprised if they change some stuff with patches, they added a bunch of crap to Civ V via patches in the months after it was released iirc. |
| | I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid. | |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. June 22 2012 04:29. Posts 27004 | Profile Blog # |
| Am I the only who played Multiplayer? All these complaints about AI don't really affect me. |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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| Brow23 Germany. June 22 2012 04:41. Posts 105 | Profile # |
| I never played MP in Civ, I don't get why people play Civ-MP ...MP is way too fast for me. |
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| Torte de Lini Canada. June 22 2012 04:49. Posts 27004 | Profile Blog # |
How is it fast? It's turn-based?
With friends and such... |
| | https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini) | |
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| andrewlt United States. June 22 2012 04:53. Posts 3112 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 18:55 pedduck wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 11:29 Cel.erity wrote:
My experience on Deity and even Immortal is that the game is much, much harder. I think the reason most people find it easier is because the game now caters to "balanced" strategies instead of "focused" (or in some cases, degenerate) strategies. It is now much harder to beeline and defeat the AI with some rush or pop a bunch of GSes and RAs to get free tech. To me, this means the advantage the AI gets in higher difficulties is much more pronounced, because you're forced to play fair with them.
Anyway, difficulty aside, I love the expansion. I feel like I have to relearn everything I know about Civ V to beat it again, but it's worth it. Religion is a lot of fun and the new civs are pretty flavorful.
I try Deity once and I could not last through Medieval Era. I tried again last week with editor (cheat) that gave me 50000 gold at beginning of the game, I still lost the war in modern era. I can only beat king difficulty. How do you play on Deity??
Beating the AI in the Civ series in the highest difficulties always involves some combination of:
1. Taking advantage of AI limitations, especially in diplomacy. Many of these strategies are borderline exploits.
2. War, because the AI is generally not good at decision making in combat.
3. Ridiculously OP slingshot strategies that allow players to get certain advantageous techs very early. This is often combined with 2 to take advantage of the techs. |
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| Candadar June 22 2012 05:01. Posts 1791 | Profile Blog # |
Jesus Christ this AI is deadly. My last plan fell apart. I reloaded just to see if it was a fluke and this AI is consistently pretty fucking good. This is take 2 at the situation, and if I fail here I'll take what I get and move on. Again, I don't know if this is a fluke but the AI is responding to my fucking strategies. It saw I was moving in from the left and put a spearman on the ridge there from across his fucking country. Like, as SOON as he spotted my sword from the left he did that. That fucks up any assault because I can't surround the city proper. I also can't move my siege engine to my Citrus tile to attack his city because, guess the fuck what, the Spearman is going to kill it.
My entire plan is going to revolve around 100% luck. I'm going to try and entirely encircle the town and use my archers to pick off the spearman so I can get a swordsman up there and begin using my catapult. However the AI specifically targets my catapults now, which is even more fucking frustrating.
God damn, and this is only on Prince too.
+ Show Spoiler +
It may be because it's been a while, but I have 113 hours in this game before this and I was destroying this AI on King to the point of steamrolling before. So this shit is definitely improved.Last edit: 2012-06-22 05:01:55 |
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