| FiercE United States. April 05 2010 11:36. Posts 63 | Profile # |
I didn't upload my own replay but here's an example replay because it's very similar to my build and strategies
http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/749
I watched through this replay, and the zerg goes lings, roaches, hydras, and infestors. I think one of his crucial mistakes was not taking the expansion next to his base blocked by the rocks. Other than that, I don't know what else he could have done.
I am consistently ranked anywhere from 10-20 in my platinum division and I play zerg. I win about 1 in 5 games against terran and it frustrates the hell out of me and my wins are against noobs. The terran always go marine mauraders and medivacs and once he gets stim, i cannot win.
My army will consist of lings, roaches, and hydras. I don't even bother getting infestors anymore because i can get 3 more hydras or 6 more roaches for the gas cost. Infestors also always die after casting fungal growth because of shitty cast range and shitty armored 90 hp. Sigh... if only I had dark swarm...
I've tried banelings and they work quite well at stopping a push but when I go banelings, I usually don't have enough roaches / hydras / lings to continue a counter attack because it takes quite a few banelings to have a significant effect against mauraders.
I've tried mutalisks but he will have too many mauraders and can run through my base before i can run through his... not to mention turrets are much stronger this version
I can never get far enough the tech tree to get enough broodlords or ultralisks. 2-3 just don't cut it.
If you give advice, please support with high level replays.Last edit: 2010-04-05 13:18:17 |
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| studmac United States. April 05 2010 11:46. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| I am also having some serious difficulty with T's MMM. I am a rank 2 gold player so it would be difficult for me to give you advice. However, one thing that helps me is to scout as much as I can and keep tabs on the Terran army; this way you can estimate his armies' unit mixture. Then you can build units accordingly. i.e if he has a vast majority of mauraders then cut back on ur roaches and maybe pump some more speedlings. If I find any pro game replays that demonstrate good zerg play against MMM I'll be sure to post it here. |
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| FiercE United States. April 05 2010 11:47. Posts 63 | Profile # |
| i've seen idra beat lzgamer once... ONCE out of like 5 games played... |
| | Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turn into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. |
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| AcrossFiveJulys United States. April 05 2010 12:03. Posts 3594 | Profile Blog # |
| infestor/hydra/speedling/roach eats me alive whenever I try to do MM in TvZ. Well placed fungal growths are just insane. Now I go mech every TvZ. |
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| FiercE United States. April 05 2010 12:10. Posts 63 | Profile # |
i just got a brief lesson from lzgamer, he says the key to beating terran is use fungal growth on the medivacs
i'm going to have to try this |
| | Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turn into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. |
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| FortuneSyn Brazil. April 05 2010 12:15. Posts 1768 | Profile Blog # |
ZvT is way way way easier than TvZ, especially vs mmm.
Go FE, then ling/bling. Time your ling/bling production to his push. Use hints such as if he went reactor or tech lab first. The less marines he has the less blings u should have, its pretty simple. Lair you can go infestor or mutas. Mutas is way easier, but you gotta know how to fend off a thor push.
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| Bosu United States. April 05 2010 12:18. Posts 3161 | Profile Blog # |
Infestors definitely are amazing against mmm. When the terran throws in a couple tanks/thors though getting the plagues off gets a bit dicey.
I think the big key to the matchup is creeping as much of the map as you can pretty early. |
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 fulmetljaket April 05 2010 12:19. Posts 482 | Profile Blog # |
fungal growth?
just a thought |
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| Rothbardian United States. April 05 2010 12:23. Posts 497 | Profile # |
As a Terran player the biggest thing I worry about is a macro oriented Roach masser, who throws in a few Hydra's behind them.
You can get 3/3 ~ 20 minutes into the game, with the Hive upgrade...That is very hard to take out especially with Marauder-Medi. Use Nydus Canals to wreck havok on expo's, and infest the whole map with Creep Tumors + Gilal Reconstitution makes Roaches move crazy fast.
Anyways, that's my perspective as a T player. |
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| Chen United States. April 05 2010 12:24. Posts 6344 | Profile # |
On April 05 2010 11:36 FiercE wrote:
My army will consist of lings, roaches, and hydras. I don't even bother getting infestors because i can get 3 more hydras or 6 more roaches for the gas cost. Infestors also always die after casting fungal growth. Sigh... if only I had dark swarm...
that is your problem. fungal growth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3 hydras. fungal growth is like 8 second plague/ensnare. units cant kite, and they take alot of damage because their units are relatively low health. marines take 80% after a stim and marauders take ~35% after a stim. it is insanely effective that you get a blob of 10-15 units hit with that kind of damage. So far watching players in the upper levels of various tournaments if zerg gets good fungal growth on the MMM blob he always wins |
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| Floophead_III United States. April 05 2010 12:28. Posts 1832 | Profile # |
On April 05 2010 12:10 FiercE wrote:
i just got a brief lesson from lzgamer, he says the key to beating terran is use fungal growth on the medivacs
i'm going to have to try this
This is so he can't build up a medivac fleet by running with his support units when his main army dies.
I did some experimenting with speedling/burrowbane/infestor play. I was going mutalisks midgame as a transition to banelings/infestors, but I wasn't having much success at the time because that was before marine/reactor nerf. The missile turret buff might make it not worth doing now though.
I think you could simply open ling/bane and go infestors from there. Adding hydras to kill off those medis (since no mutas) and I think you might be able to contain the terran pretty effectively, which gives you time to expand and macro up.
(Another cute idea: if he's lacking in AA, get drop, load up some banelings in a couple overloads, and go banebomb his minlines.)
Another thing to always do: Place creep tumors and spew overlord creep once you get lair. Make sure if terrran is attacking that he's going on creep to do it. The movespeed bonus is incredible. |
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| Bosu United States. April 05 2010 12:34. Posts 3161 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2010 12:24 Chen wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 11:36 FiercE wrote:
My army will consist of lings, roaches, and hydras. I don't even bother getting infestors because i can get 3 more hydras or 6 more roaches for the gas cost. Infestors also always die after casting fungal growth. Sigh... if only I had dark swarm...
that is your problem. fungal growth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3 hydras. fungal growth is like 8 second plague/ensnare. units cant kite, and they take alot of damage because their units are relatively low health. marines take 80% after a stim and marauders take ~35% after a stim. it is insanely effective that you get a blob of 10-15 units hit with that kind of damage. So far watching players in the upper levels of various tournaments if zerg gets good fungal growth on the MMM blob he always wins
It isn't even really the damage the plague does that is important. It is that it works sorta like the sentry force field that it just screws up the MMM unit arc. Last edit: 2010-04-05 12:35:31 |
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| xnub Canada. April 05 2010 12:35. Posts 610 | Profile # |
Bainlings and infestors rape MMM. Also Roachs and hydras rape them to keep the Roachs infront of hydras and watchs the hydras mow them down. If medvacs are in range focus them witha few hydras win.
Altho i would still like to see the lurker come back was one of my fav units for zerg in bw : P. But ya zerg is stronge or just fine VS just MMM.Last edit: 2010-04-05 12:37:45 |
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| FiercE United States. April 05 2010 13:14. Posts 63 | Profile # |
you guys all say infestors rape the shit out of terran yet don't provide replays
you think i haven't tried infestors?
i've been going through all the platinum zvt replays on sc2rc.com and the ratio thus far is 1 zerg win for 8 terran wins |
| | Imagine punching somebody so hard that they turn into a door. Then you found out that's where ALL doors come from, and you got initiated into a murder club that makes doors. The stronger you punch, the better the door. |
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| Disastorm United States. April 05 2010 13:17. Posts 898 | Profile # |
Im having the same problem as Fierce. I'm top 8 in my Platinum division and win only 1/10 of my games versus Terran. My other matchups I win probably 60-70% of the time but my matchup vs Terran is probably measly 10%. I've tried infestors a few times to no avail and have actually tried every other zerg unit, also, but ill try infestors again and see how it goes.
Also most imporatnt thing is I don't find it possible to expand as Zerg. When are you supposed to expand? I can expand against terran if i get roaches but then they can just coutner that with marauders. Also, against protoss are you supposed to expand after you get hydras? Because in that matchup I find that its impossible to expand before that.Last edit: 2010-04-05 13:20:52 |
| | "Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10 |
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| xnub Canada. April 05 2010 13:50. Posts 610 | Profile # |
On April 05 2010 13:17 Disastorm wrote:
Im having the same problem as Fierce. I'm top 8 in my Platinum division and win only 1/10 of my games versus Terran. My other matchups I win probably 60-70% of the time but my matchup vs Terran is probably measly 10%. I've tried infestors a few times to no avail and have actually tried every other zerg unit, also, but ill try infestors again and see how it goes.
Also most imporatnt thing is I don't find it possible to expand as Zerg. When are you supposed to expand? I can expand against terran if i get roaches but then they can just coutner that with marauders. Also, against protoss are you supposed to expand after you get hydras? Because in that matchup I find that its impossible to expand before that.
Most zerg players say expand fast or die 10 - 14 most times it seems /shrug |
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| Disastorm United States. April 05 2010 13:53. Posts 898 | Profile # |
On April 05 2010 13:50 xnub wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 13:17 Disastorm wrote:
Im having the same problem as Fierce. I'm top 8 in my Platinum division and win only 1/10 of my games versus Terran. My other matchups I win probably 60-70% of the time but my matchup vs Terran is probably measly 10%. I've tried infestors a few times to no avail and have actually tried every other zerg unit, also, but ill try infestors again and see how it goes.
Also most imporatnt thing is I don't find it possible to expand as Zerg. When are you supposed to expand? I can expand against terran if i get roaches but then they can just coutner that with marauders. Also, against protoss are you supposed to expand after you get hydras? Because in that matchup I find that its impossible to expand before that.
Most zerg players say expand fast or die 10 - 14 most times it seems /shrug
lol its impsosible to hold any expansion you do at 10-14 .... alot of people tell me you need to expand late.Last edit: 2010-04-05 13:53:34 |
| | "Don't worry so much man. There won't be any more zergs left to QQ. Lots of QQ about TvT is incoming though I bet." - Vrok 9/21/10 |
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| Sejong Korea (South). April 05 2010 13:55. Posts 151 | Profile # |
| I've also been having difficulty as zerg against Terran MMM particularly on Blistering Sands. Would love some replays (as OP asked for)... Last edit: 2010-04-05 13:55:58 |
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| Vexx United States. April 05 2010 14:16. Posts 462 | Profile Blog # |
I've had mixed results in this match up. I am not ranked in 1v1 so this is from 2v2 plat experience.
I've noticed that hydras rape everything and that they are really key to success. Fungal growth has given me mixed results because if the battle takes place in a cramped area, infestors have a hard ass time getting in super shitty range to case fungal.
In my experience, my Ling/Roach/Mostly Hydra/3 infestor army usually wins the fight UNLESS the terran went overboard on the medivcas (6-10).
An additional problem is that during larger battles, there are enough units creating a wall that the medivacs can heal comfortably without being close enough for your hydras. I have not tried adding corruptors but I can see them getting owned something fierce real quick.
Banelings have helped too in these giant battles but even if you win, you may not have a force strong enough to finish the push.
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As a mainly terran player, I make sure to get additional medivacs and I am a big big fan of siege tanks in mid-late game. Just 4-5 can dish out so much punishment (provided their army isn't ling heavy where you'll end up splashing your own army). Ravens with defense drone do wonders because not taking that first 400-1000 damage changes the fight entirely (with stim, it's dirty.)
The main thing I would suggest is to keep tabs on the terran army and don't wait for him to setup in front of your base to fight. Try very hard to catch him in the open where he can't make a super line of marauders-that-slow-for-no-good-reason and pick off those medivacs. All it takes is a few hydras. It's also much easier to clean up with banelings and land fungal growth in the open. |
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| dudeman001 United States. April 05 2010 15:31. Posts 2126 | Profile Blog # |
On April 05 2010 14:16 Vexx wrote:
I've noticed that hydras rape everything and that they are really key to success. .
In the ZvT match up, the most cost effective counter to mass hydras is mass marines. Marines are weak little buggers but they're dirt cheap for the terran and once they get the combat shield they're even more worth it. This also leaves terran with stockpiling gas not being spent on marauders, which is quite handy for ravens.
If you're planning to mass hydras, my best suggestion is to get an abundance of infestors to fungal growth the crap out of the terran army. But it's important to bring in roaches as well. Think of them as your damage soaking tanks.
In the midst of writing this post, I've come under the feeling that army composition really matters so much more for the zerg in late game SC2 than in SC1. Balancing roaches, hydras and infestors before any kind of switch to broodlords or slowlisks is the key. Massing simply doesn't work. |
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