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 PanzerDragoon United States. April 13 2010 14:33. Posts 822 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 14:19 bjornkavist wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 07:34 kyophan wrote:
Korea eat, drink, and breathe starcraft. This will not destroy progaming starcraft. Wc3 did not die because of that scandal. The game simply was not that deep like starcraft to last that long.
You over estimate the popularity of Starcraft. Since this is a Starcraft site that covers pro BW from a foreign stand point it seems like the biggest thing in the world. When sadly, when compared to Hockey in Canada, or Football in the States, its no where near as popular. Yes people know about it, tons do, compared to other countries but Koreand definately dont breathe Starcraft.
I would say SC is most comparable to MMA in the states; a niche sport with a decent sized hardcore fanbase, but not wide casual appeal. |
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| moopie April 13 2010 14:38. Posts 12498 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 14:09 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 12:26 moopie wrote:
On April 13 2010 12:18 Luddite wrote:
With Boxer- I gotta say, even if he was involved in this, I'll bet everyone would go to MASSIVE lengths to keep it quiet. Because if he was guilty of it even once than it would completely destroy starcraft.
I disagree. If boxer was involved then it would be a shame, but starcraft would live on just fine. As it is though, this hearsay about every progamer under the sun needs to stop until there is hard proof presented.
If we cant trust the most beloved progamer of all time, who can we trust? Competitive Starcraft would lose ALL credibility if Boxer got caught up in this, as opposed to just most of it.
While boxer was a very important player in the history of starcraft, and the development of esports (though not alone, so I don't know why you single him out so), at this point he is not an active part of it. Regardless of the "OMG SCANDAL" thing going on right now (in korea as well as TL), it will blow over. the SPL format change negates the ability to bet on players directly (and instead only on the teams). Any players proven to be cheating (see 'proven', not suspected, like most names in these threads, see: stork, jaedong, fantasy, etc etc etc) will be forced to retire from starcraft (and might face criminal charges), but the game will go on. Teams will not all disband if boxer is found to have been throwing matches several times.
IMO instead of speculating so much on the what-ifs of every player that was and is, its best to wait until the situation is settled, and the results are announced, and move on. Far too many people in the past 2 days are calling certainties about every korean player in existance due to some mistake they have made in a game that led to them losing. What's next? "omg idra cancelled the cc, clearly he was being paid to lose!!1!".
Last edit: 2010-04-13 14:39:13 |
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| CapO United States. April 13 2010 14:42. Posts 1615 | Profile Blog # |
how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing?
since, when were they so good at acting?
of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..  |
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| Pyrrhuloxia United States. April 13 2010 14:53. Posts 6532 | Profile Blog # |
On April 13 2010 14:42 CapO wrote:how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing? since, when were they so good at acting? of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..
Well Savior cried after the loss to Bogus, which apparently is one of the matches with the most evidence of corruption. |
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| EtherealDeath United States. April 13 2010 14:55. Posts 8158 | Profile Blog # |
| Omfg @ the list of suspected / supposedly confessed players on page 7. This would be the greatest bullshit ever in SC. Like.... shit.... (imagine how much money Flash would've made if he had joined them lol) |
| | SC2: Kasu.767 ////////// Dota 2: 1a2a3a | |
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| uiCk Canada. April 13 2010 14:58. Posts 1906 | Profile Blog # |
On April 13 2010 14:53 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 14:42 CapO wrote:how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing? since, when were they so good at acting? of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..
Well Savior cried after the loss to Bogus, which apparently is one of the matches with the most evidence of corruption.
least they can do for some nice liquid imo |
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| MamiyaOtaru United States. April 13 2010 15:05. Posts 1651 | Profile Blog # |
On April 13 2010 14:42 CapO wrote:how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing? since, when were they so good at acting? of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..
was mentioned above Savior cried after the Bogus (lol) match. Maybe he felt bad for what he did. Maybe when he was sweating he was under pressure to lose without looking like he was trying to lose. Doing something wrong with real world consequences could do that to someone.
I hope above hope these are all rumours though At least let it only be some scrubs involved if there is something going on D: |
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 TheYango United States. April 13 2010 15:11. Posts 15773 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 14:38 moopie wrote:
While boxer was a very important player in the history of starcraft, and the development of esports (though not alone, so I don't know why you single him out so), at this point he is not an active part of it. Regardless of the "OMG SCANDAL" thing going on right now (in korea as well as TL), it will blow over. the SPL format change negates the ability to bet on players directly (and instead only on the teams). Any players proven to be cheating (see 'proven', not suspected, like most names in these threads, see: stork, jaedong, fantasy, etc etc etc) will be forced to retire from starcraft (and might face criminal charges), but the game will go on. Teams will not all disband if boxer is found to have been throwing matches several times.
You're looking at this from an internal point of view, and not from the point of view of a spectator.
Suppose you're a casual SC viewer in Korea. You only know, say, 5-6 progamers by name, and follow those few carefully. Now suppose that of those 4 of them were found to be match-rigging, including your favorites. What keeps you watching? You don't play, you don't look for deep strategic insight. All you look for is to follow your favorite players. And now you hear that they've broken the law for a quick buck, and that some of their greatest achievements might have been a fluke?
Now assume that these people make up the majority of viewers in Korea. You can't tell me that ratings/viewership wouldn't decline. Boxer is key not because he's a big player in current Starcraft, but because in the hearts and minds of many people, he is what brought them into Starcraft. That the flagship progamer of the last decade is corrupt would signify that the entire industry is corrupt.Last edit: 2010-04-13 15:14:01 |
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| KingofHearts Japan. April 13 2010 15:21. Posts 560 | Profile Blog # | |
| | moshi moshi~ | |
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| Zev United States. April 13 2010 15:24. Posts 51 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 14:53 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 14:42 CapO wrote:how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing? since, when were they so good at acting? of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..
Well Savior cried after the loss to Bogus, which apparently is one of the matches with the most evidence of corruption.
Probably guilt and embarrassment that comes with losing to Bogus. Sadly I think FBH may be in it too... He was doing great for so long, and then BOOM sucks ... =( That or KESPA new rules on dancing took away his will to win. |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. April 13 2010 15:28. Posts 3477 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 15:21 KingofHearts wrote:anyone remember savior losing to pj in wcg semifinals?? im sure that sh-it is rigged. source here for anyone who doesn't know http://www.mymym.com/en/news/9974.html
If that were true.... man -_- it's practically treason. |
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| BloodDrunK Bangladesh. April 13 2010 15:28. Posts 2756 | Profile Blog # |
| looks like we're gonna need a separate thread for the Savior fanboys to discuss all of his performances since 2008. |
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| Mooncat Germany. April 13 2010 15:41. Posts 1228 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 15:05 MamiyaOtaru wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 14:42 CapO wrote:how come jaedong and along with others,who were mentioned under the list of investigation, often sweat and look like they are having hard times, while they are losing? since, when were they so good at acting? of course, i don't think the whole scandal is a complete lie, but man..
was mentioned above Savior cried after the Bogus (lol) match. Maybe he felt bad for what he did. Maybe when he was sweating he was under pressure to lose without looking like he was trying to lose. Doing something wrong with real world consequences could do that to someone. I hope above hope these are all rumours though At least let it only be some scrubs involved if there is something going on D:
Or maybe you guys will finally stop insisting that certain progamers (especially MJY) cry if they win/lose their matches and accept that it's just a natural reaction of the eyes to concentrating intensely on the screen for extended periods of time.
Maybe for sAviOr losing on purpose requires even more concentration than trying to win does for other people... |
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| moopie April 13 2010 15:43. Posts 12498 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 15:11 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 14:38 moopie wrote:
While boxer was a very important player in the history of starcraft, and the development of esports (though not alone, so I don't know why you single him out so), at this point he is not an active part of it. Regardless of the "OMG SCANDAL" thing going on right now (in korea as well as TL), it will blow over. the SPL format change negates the ability to bet on players directly (and instead only on the teams). Any players proven to be cheating (see 'proven', not suspected, like most names in these threads, see: stork, jaedong, fantasy, etc etc etc) will be forced to retire from starcraft (and might face criminal charges), but the game will go on. Teams will not all disband if boxer is found to have been throwing matches several times.
You're looking at this from an internal point of view, and not from the point of view of a spectator. Suppose you're a casual SC viewer in Korea. You only know, say, 5-6 progamers by name, and follow those few carefully. Now suppose that of those 4 of them were found to be match-rigging, including your favorites. What keeps you watching? You don't play, you don't look for deep strategic insight. All you look for is to follow your favorite players. And now you hear that they've broken the law for a quick buck, and that some of their greatest achievements might have been a fluke? Now assume that these people make up the majority of viewers in Korea. You can't tell me that ratings/viewership wouldn't decline. Boxer is key not because he's a big player in current Starcraft, but because in the hearts and minds of many people, he is what brought them into Starcraft. That the flagship progamer of the last decade is corrupt would signify that the entire industry is corrupt.
Yes, PR hits do happen, and they do affect viewing, but they will not kill the sport, simply because people also follow teams (not just select players), and the teams are here to stay. Now if/when your favorite player turns out to be in the middle of a scandal, it might bother you, and you're right, some might give up on the sport entirely, but that is generally not the case. Some people write said player off, some stick by them regardless for their other accomplishments, but most will find new favorites to follow.
As for Boxer, if he were theoretically found to be guilty of such a thing, it would indeed tarnish his image (and make e-sports look bad), but it would not take away from his accomplishments, and he would still remain a starcraft icon (much like I expect savior to be if indeed he is guilty and is forced to quit, after everything dies down a bit). I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. |
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| Jonoman92 United States. April 13 2010 15:44. Posts 7411 | Profile Blog # |
On April 13 2010 15:43 moopie wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 15:11 TheYango wrote:
On April 13 2010 14:38 moopie wrote:
While boxer was a very important player in the history of starcraft, and the development of esports (though not alone, so I don't know why you single him out so), at this point he is not an active part of it. Regardless of the "OMG SCANDAL" thing going on right now (in korea as well as TL), it will blow over. the SPL format change negates the ability to bet on players directly (and instead only on the teams). Any players proven to be cheating (see 'proven', not suspected, like most names in these threads, see: stork, jaedong, fantasy, etc etc etc) will be forced to retire from starcraft (and might face criminal charges), but the game will go on. Teams will not all disband if boxer is found to have been throwing matches several times.
You're looking at this from an internal point of view, and not from the point of view of a spectator. Suppose you're a casual SC viewer in Korea. You only know, say, 5-6 progamers by name, and follow those few carefully. Now suppose that of those 4 of them were found to be match-rigging, including your favorites. What keeps you watching? You don't play, you don't look for deep strategic insight. All you look for is to follow your favorite players. And now you hear that they've broken the law for a quick buck, and that some of their greatest achievements might have been a fluke? Now assume that these people make up the majority of viewers in Korea. You can't tell me that ratings/viewership wouldn't decline. Boxer is key not because he's a big player in current Starcraft, but because in the hearts and minds of many people, he is what brought them into Starcraft. That the flagship progamer of the last decade is corrupt would signify that the entire industry is corrupt.
Yes, PR hits do happen, and they do affect viewing, but they will not kill the sport, simply because people also follow teams (not just select players), and the teams are here to stay. Now if/when your favorite player turns out to be in the middle of a scandal, it might bother you, and you're right, some might give up on the sport entirely, but that is generally not the case. Some people write said player off, some stick by them regardless for their other accomplishments, but most will find new favorites to follow. As for Boxer, if he were theoretically found to be guilty of such a thing, it would indeed tarnish his image (and make e-sports look bad), but it would not take away from his accomplishments, and he would still remain a starcraft icon (much like I expect savior to be if indeed he is guilty and is forced to quit, after everything dies down a bit). I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
I dunno... if savior is confirmed to have thrown matches I think it will hurt the way he is remembered, at least for me it will. I doubt boxer is involved, I mean unless they bribed him to actually win for once lololol. |
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| dukethegold Canada. April 13 2010 15:47. Posts 5573 | Profile Blog # |
Seems that at this point, Savior is pretty much an absolute certainty as far as corruption goes.
I thought his legacy was getting destroyed when he kept losing to noobs. Now I have seen everything. |
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| mOnion United States. April 13 2010 15:52. Posts 4941 | Profile Blog # |
what happened to my magical Starcraft world?
Bisu slumping
SC2 raping everything
MSL had no sponsor for forever
Boxer's marrying someone who already has a kid???
Now all this horrible garbage
My mona lisa has been shat on X_X whyyyyyLast edit: 2010-04-13 15:53:22 |
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| Zed03 Canada. April 13 2010 16:11. Posts 110 | Profile # |
On April 13 2010 15:52 mOnion wrote:
what happened to my magical Starcraft world?
Bisu slumping
SC2 raping everything
MSL had no sponsor for forever
Boxer's marrying someone who already has a kid???
Now all this horrible garbage
My mona lisa has been shat on X_X whyyyyy
lol! |
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| KinosJourney2 Sweden. April 13 2010 16:13. Posts 1774 | Profile Blog # |
Basically now SC1 is doomed, theres no way in hell it can recover it seems
Boxer NOOOOOOOO don't marry a old lady T_T |
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| anch United States. April 13 2010 16:21. Posts 5457 | Profile Blog # |
I dont know what the hell is wrong with Boxer, unless thats a really milky MILF. There are girls lined up to have sex with Boxer and this woman is over his age and has a kid. (most likely not Boxer's, unless Boxer had sex when he was 18)
That just ruins my image thinking how Emperor is being tamed irl.
edit: we need a different thread for Boxer also.Last edit: 2010-04-13 16:21:58 |
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