Oh Micro, Where Art Thou?

That was an epicly long read, and I should be studying for finals, but that was worth it. Props man for your work.

Basically to sum up your article and how I feel... the units are sluggish/unresponsive.

Swift as the wind, felt before noticed.

Eury Sweden. April 27 2010 16:36. Posts 1028

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Next time cut out all the Blizzard bashing, and you got half the size of the article. I don't see how your bashing adds anything to the point you are trying to make, instead it just ends up hurting the article. Why should Blizzard read your article where you insult them over and over again. Would you do that if you where in their shoes?

I hope TL admins will close this thread, and you can instead rewrite and then repost your article without the fluff. Right now it reads like a tiresome rant that Blizzard will most likely ignore.

Ina300 United States. April 27 2010 16:46. Posts 5

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I can't believe I read the whole thing. Good read. But I don't think anything will come of it. They have their design philosophy for SC2 and they are sticking to it. BW isn't going away. We can still play that.

decemvre1 Romania. April 27 2010 16:51. Posts 51

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On April 27 2010 16:36 Eury wrote:
Next time cut out all the Blizzard bashing, and you got half the size of the article. I don't see how your bashing adds anything to the point you are trying to make, instead it just ends up hurting the article. Why should Blizzard read your article where you insult them over and over again. Would you do that if you where in their shoes?

I hope TL admins will close this thread, and you can instead rewrite and then repost your article without the fluff. Right now it reads like a tiresome rant that Blizzard will most likely ignore.

How about NOT ?

Everyone is overly nice nowadays anyway; so who care's if there's blizzard and browder bashing ? they damn well deserve it for just making "AWESOME UNITS" that do "terrible terrible damage".

Before i played the game i used to curse at blizzard for putting in so many massive, slow unmicroable units such as thor ,colosus, Battlecruiser, mothership, carrier, ultralisk and broodlords, but actually move-attack is also inexistent.

Eury Sweden. April 27 2010 16:59. Posts 1028

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On April 27 2010 16:51 decemvre wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, I guess it depends on what goal you have with your posts. If you want Blizzard to read what you say, and perhaps change their mind, then insulting them is very counterproductive. However if you only want to rant and vent frustrations, then I guess you and the OP are very successful with your posting.

It just make the ordeal of reading your posts pretty pointless though.

sluggaslamoo Australia. April 27 2010 17:09. Posts 3474

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The devs aren't kids, they are not going to go cry to bed just because they read offensive posts. They listen and read between the lines, and fix problems, its their job.

BW: Slugger[wOk] feel free to add | No Tidehunter

DrSmoke United States. April 27 2010 17:11. Posts 175

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I think your opinion of sc bw is a bit biased, perhaps even in accurate in a nostalgic kind of way. It seems to me that most of you beloved micro of the past was taking advantage of bugs in the way units moved.

You love the old air units so much, but a key to using them was stacking, or preventing the stacking of them, due to the horrible engine of an ancient game.

Might I also point out that although bw hasn't been balanced in 9 years, it still took 2 years after release to get to that point. I can only imagine your complaints had you been a beta for bw...

BW was a great game back in the day, but it was not perfect. Your complaints sound more like those of an old man pining for the days of horse-drawn carriages.

deL Australia. April 27 2010 17:18. Posts 5511

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Read it all. Enjoyed it all. Agree with most.

I also miss moving shot and really don't think it would make the game feel too much like BW. Please bring it back, it makes micro so much more exciting.

slippery sausage

ROOTdrewbie Canada. April 27 2010 17:18. Posts 1303

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Yeah I really don't agree with you on this, I think that SC2 is amazing and will be a great ESPORT game and it seems like you just expected it to be exactly like bw only with better graphics ;( Also please do not bash Blizzard they are doing a really good job !

www.root-gaming.com

IrVeNoJu Poland. April 27 2010 17:20. Posts 61

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Exacly how I feel about curent state of the game. And yes, ZvP is broken, almost everygame leads to 4 warpgates allin....

W.A.M

Eury Sweden. April 27 2010 17:23. Posts 1028

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On April 27 2010 17:09 sluggaslamoo wrote:
The devs aren't kids, they are not going to go cry to bed just because they read offensive posts. They listen and read between the lines, and fix problems, its their job.

Sadly they are humans. If you surround the point you are trying to make with insults then there is a good chance that they will ignore the insults together with the argument you are making whether its well made or not.

Btw I can guarantee you that in their job description you can't find anything about reading various Internet forums for feedback. Many however still do that, and they do that on their spare time. They don't get paid for listening to angry rants, and I'm sure they rather do something else with their time like spending time with their families. A concept hard to comprehend if you are a teenager.

zatic Germany. April 27 2010 17:25. Posts 11700

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I agree it could have done very well, probably better without the Blizzard and especially the Browder hate. And even if the criticism may be warranted, the tone towards Blizzards and the attacks on DB weren't really necessary to make a point.

Still that's Lalushs problem since it weakens his post, not going to close an excellent thread because of that.

I know Teamliquid is known as a massive building

kickinhead Switzerland. April 27 2010 17:31. Posts 2056

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It's pretty simple: Unit-controls in Sc2sucks.

Change it or SC2=fail in the long run.... I'm only in Beta and already bored and playing scbw again....

"It's breakfast-time in China."

Demand2k Norway. April 27 2010 17:46. Posts 545

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Nice read, lots of stuff that can be agreed upon. I find myself playing BGH these days instead of the SC2 beta because microing goliaths and wraiths is so damn fun, lol.

decemvre1 Romania. April 27 2010 17:48. Posts 51

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On April 27 2010 17:11 DrSmoke wrote:
I think your opinion of sc bw is a bit biased, perhaps even in accurate in a nostalgic kind of way. It seems to me that most of you beloved micro of the past was taking advantage of bugs in the way units moved.

You love the old air units so much, but a key to using them was stacking, or preventing the stacking of them, due to the horrible engine of an ancient game.

Might I also point out that although bw hasn't been balanced in 9 years, it still took 2 years after release to get to that point. I can only imagine your complaints had you been a beta for bw...

BW was a great game back in the day, but it was not perfect. Your complaints sound more like those of an old man pining for the days of horse-drawn carriages.

Clearly you're not an ex BW player so you don't know what your talking about when you say, " taking advantage of bugs in the way units moved"; either go away or sit quietly while we debate or go play 13000+ games of bw and then come back and tell us we're just abusing bugs in the software ok

P.S. Like Browder you probably think that "micro" is just "kiting" and pulling a damaged unit back.

While in reality each unit in SC1 had its own SPECIFIC way (or even more ways for that matter) of being microed and kitingg and pulling back the damaged unit was childs play.

Last edit: 2010-04-27 17:52:32

FoieGras Canada. April 27 2010 17:53. Posts 270

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Nice read, I hope the Blizzard guys get to take a look through this article.

MorroW Sweden. April 27 2010 17:55. Posts 3412

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i think it would be a good idea to let air attack while moving like they could in sc1. now u cant hunt micro at all and that was one of the major micro parts of air vs air in sc1

Mios United States. April 27 2010 17:55. Posts 563

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coming from competitive wc3 which is basically all micro, i find fights a lot more boring in sc2. the difference between a+clicking and putting your full focus into microing an army to its full potential is so small that its hardly worth it sometimes.

specifically from wc3, i really miss surrounds and blocks, which took immense skill and would play a crucial role in the outcome of the game; one surround on a grunt or hero or something early game is huge. not to mention the fact that in big battles there are a million things to do which made the pros really shine and the noobs really obvious.

i never played too much BW but i did watch a lot of pro tounaments and such, and it is really easy to SEE skill in BW, which isnt the case with SC2.

every good rts should be about strategy, macro, and micro. one RTS may put its priority in one aspect over another, but all three were still crucial. the only reason SC2 depends mostly on your decision making and macro is because it lacks micro, not because its a "strategy" game. the strategy aspect of sc2 takes no more skill and forethought than it did in wc3 or bw, the only reason its so much more important is because theres not much else to do.

making unit control incredibly precise, and making a unit's effectiveness heavily dependent on how a player controls them would add so much more depth to this game, i really hope Blizzard catches on.

however, this IS the beta blabla sc2 should evolve into something better so i'll be patient for now, but if it doesnt, it will never be an internationally acclaimed esport.

Last edit: 2010-04-27 17:59:31

no LAN and intercontinental bnet = T_T

decemberscalm United States. April 27 2010 17:56. Posts 723

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Revise the article, post this on the front page. Seriously, you touched the soul of broodwar <3.

oodar United Kingdom. April 27 2010 17:56. Posts 1

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It seems obvious why these choices have been made - mass appeal. They aren't making a game to please the current community, they're making it to grab people who probably never played the original games.

If they made SC2 a carbon copy of BW, sure the community of people who played BW religiously would buy it - but the millions other potential customers probably would not. Even if they did they'd be rewarded with a gigantic skill gap between those who played BW and those who didn't and a massive learning curve if they wanted to try and catch up.

TLDR; of course they did this, its good business.