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| Mindor January 02 2012 18:36. Posts 161 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:29 CrazyCow wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:21 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:18 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:16 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:14 Powermovez wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:12 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:10 CrazyCow wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:06 Hyore wrote:
He said he didn't want to. Peer presure goes a long ways.
Saying you don't want to do something and then caving to pressure is worse than just doing it in my mind. Why would you do something that you don't want to do.
Shit man, shit happens. Take your moral shittery off somewhere else. Wtf. A guy who didn't want to get drunk got drunk. A guy that doesn't drink a lot got drunk. A guy who should have known better, now knows better. Get over it ffs.
Are you saying people who do things while drunk shouldn't be held accountable?
Oh get over yourself, thats not what I am saying at all. Just go and make some mistakes in life, and then you will realise nothing Destiny has done is all that bad. Fuck is everyone on Team Liquid a 15 year old that has never done anything stupid? If so then wow, fuck this.
Just why do you think it's wrong to get held accountable for doing something stupid? Okay let's say as a hypotetical example that a person did drugs as a minor and had to go to jail, well they still had to go to jail didn't they? They still got scolded didn't they? They still had to stand up to the consequences didn't they?
On January 02 2012 18:17 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:11 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:07 Excomm wrote:
On January 02 2012 17:45 Shikyo wrote:
Have you heard of shy girls? Some have problems speaking up if you do something like that. Or about other things, as well.
"Is it all right to you if I touch you in this way?" Ask this before doing that, and don't do anything without a "yes". Not that difficult. Did you even know that just TRYING it to see their reaction is sexual assault? Honestly you guys disgust me
I just don't agree. People don't ask permission for sex and sign documents of consent. Many girls would laugh you out of the bedroom if you said, "is it okay if I grab your boobs?" It sucks if a girl is shy and gets put in an awkward spot because she doesn't know how to deal with someone's sexual advances, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that scenario doesn't apply to what happened here.
Hey hey here I thought she was there as a guest and not as a pick-up from some bar O_O My entire point is about RESPECT. In that kind of a situation you shouldn't even think about doing anything sexual.
Why shouldn't you? Thinking about sex is pretty normal lol.
It's called respect. ... God. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
Jeez Mr uptight Virgin.... Destiny did nothing that should get him into trouble. What he did is only shocking to 14 year old virgins and the Amish. Mia Rose could have snapped his arms off if she wanted to, they are like twiglets. You 14 year olds are just getting your boners in a twist at nothing. Anyone who is over 20 years old has done worse than this. Get over it seriously ffs. Edit: Fuck, I've bitten these trolls bait so hard, prob going to be banned now. FFS Destiny <3 Screw the uptight community we are breeding here. I thought you guys had died out in the 80s.
Anyone who has a set of morals that includes respecting women is a virgin and 14 years old. K.
Respecting them and treating them like idiots is not the same thing. I think Mia was amused if anything that Destiny won't remember all the boobie-grabbing tomorrow. (I'm not trying to belittle actual sexual assault, but if every girl considered what went down there that, I could charge 5 different guys for harrassement just on New Year's eve.)Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:44:37 |
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 ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:37. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:33 Rbd wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:19 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:17 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:15 doko100 wrote:
[quote]
Killing someone really? You actually have to be a troll. Nobody is killing anybody, what the fuck?
All I did was use your dumbass logic. The cashier at the coffeeshop never said no. What did I do wrong?
You can't compare killing someone with touching someone's boobies. How old are you, like 12? Nevermind, I don't even think 12 year olds would think like that.
I never once compared the two acts. All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
So what if it is a complete stranger. They didn't say no before hand so according to you they consented. Grabbing someone's tits with their consent is completely legal. The stranger in his example clearly consented according to you and therefore he was ok. Once she communicates to stop he can stop but before hand she let him start.
It's not the same. If you know someone and touch their boobs thinking that she's ok with it, then that is not the same situation as walking up to a complete stranger and touching her tits. Can't even compare that. inb4Ididntcompareit, yes you did, try harder pls. |
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| Titan_Ansiminus United States. January 02 2012 18:37. Posts 27 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:34 Powermovez wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:32 Titan_Ansiminus wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 doko100 wrote:
So people should never have sex/think about sex with someone they feel attracted to because it's disrespectful? That is really interesting lol.
Yes normally I'd consider it very disrespectful if you have a female guest there and just think about having sex with her.
You do understand how a lot of guys' brains work, right?
Men's brains work perfectly fine. It's the instilled social constructs that give off the idea that it's okay to treat women like shit.
Lol, way off base on my comment, boss. I am not talking about treating women like shit. I am talking about a common theme among male though patterns: sex. And if the thought of sex happens to involve women, or perhaps a particular woman, so what?Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:39:59 |
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| Powermovez January 02 2012 18:39. Posts 14 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:36 Mindor wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:29 CrazyCow wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:18 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:16 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:14 Powermovez wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:12 Mallidon wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:10 CrazyCow wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:06 Hyore wrote:
He said he didn't want to. Peer presure goes a long ways.
Saying you don't want to do something and then caving to pressure is worse than just doing it in my mind. Why would you do something that you don't want to do.
Shit man, shit happens. Take your moral shittery off somewhere else. Wtf. A guy who didn't want to get drunk got drunk. A guy that doesn't drink a lot got drunk. A guy who should have known better, now knows better. Get over it ffs.
Are you saying people who do things while drunk shouldn't be held accountable?
Oh get over yourself, thats not what I am saying at all. Just go and make some mistakes in life, and then you will realise nothing Destiny has done is all that bad. Fuck is everyone on Team Liquid a 15 year old that has never done anything stupid? If so then wow, fuck this.
Just why do you think it's wrong to get held accountable for doing something stupid? Okay let's say as a hypotetical example that a person did drugs as a minor and had to go to jail, well they still had to go to jail didn't they? They still got scolded didn't they? They still had to stand up to the consequences didn't they?
On January 02 2012 18:17 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:11 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:07 Excomm wrote:
On January 02 2012 17:45 Shikyo wrote:
Have you heard of shy girls? Some have problems speaking up if you do something like that. Or about other things, as well.
"Is it all right to you if I touch you in this way?" Ask this before doing that, and don't do anything without a "yes". Not that difficult. Did you even know that just TRYING it to see their reaction is sexual assault? Honestly you guys disgust me
I just don't agree. People don't ask permission for sex and sign documents of consent. Many girls would laugh you out of the bedroom if you said, "is it okay if I grab your boobs?" It sucks if a girl is shy and gets put in an awkward spot because she doesn't know how to deal with someone's sexual advances, but I'm pretty sure we can agree that scenario doesn't apply to what happened here.
Hey hey here I thought she was there as a guest and not as a pick-up from some bar O_O My entire point is about RESPECT. In that kind of a situation you shouldn't even think about doing anything sexual.
Why shouldn't you? Thinking about sex is pretty normal lol.
It's called respect. ... God. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.
Jeez Mr uptight Virgin.... Destiny did nothing that should get him into trouble. What he did is only shocking to 14 year old virgins and the Amish. Mia Rose could have snapped his arms off if she wanted to, they are like twiglets. You 14 year olds are just getting your boners in a twist at nothing. Anyone who is over 20 years old has done worse than this. Get over it seriously ffs. Edit: Fuck, I've bitten these trolls bait so hard, prob going to be banned now. FFS Destiny <3 Screw the uptight community we are breeding here. I thought you guys had died out in the 80s.
Anyone who has a set of morals that includes respecting women is a virgin and 14 years old. K.
Respecting them and treating them like idiots is not the same thing. I think Mia was amused if anything that Destiny won't remember all the boobie-grabbing tomorrow. (I'm not trying to belittle actual sexual assault, but if every girl considered what went down there that, I could charge 5 different guys with harrassement just for New Year's eve.)
Just because it isn't overwhelmingly considered "sexual assault" by law doesn't make it okay at all. Sexual assault happens in many different instances that are often times ignored or belittled because of the phrase "boys will be boys". |
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| ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:39. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:19 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:17 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:15 doko100 wrote:
[quote]
Killing someone really? You actually have to be a troll. Nobody is killing anybody, what the fuck?
All I did was use your dumbass logic. The cashier at the coffeeshop never said no. What did I do wrong?
You can't compare killing someone with touching someone's boobies. How old are you, like 12? Nevermind, I don't even think 12 year olds would think like that.
I never once compared the two acts. All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway. |
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| Rush042 Canada. January 02 2012 18:41. Posts 68 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:19 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:17 Rbd wrote:
[quote]
All I did was use your dumbass logic. The cashier at the coffeeshop never said no. What did I do wrong?
You can't compare killing someone with touching someone's boobies. How old are you, like 12? Nevermind, I don't even think 12 year olds would think like that.
I never once compared the two acts. All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen."
I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
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| Powermovez January 02 2012 18:41. Posts 14 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:37 Titan_Ansiminus wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:34 Powermovez wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:32 Titan_Ansiminus wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Shikyo wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 doko100 wrote:
So people should never have sex/think about sex with someone they feel attracted to because it's disrespectful? That is really interesting lol.
Yes normally I'd consider it very disrespectful if you have a female guest there and just think about having sex with her.
You do understand how a lot of guys' brains work, right?
Men's brains work perfectly fine. It's the instilled social constructs that give off the idea that it's okay to treat women like shit.
Lol, way off base on my comment, boss. I am not talking about treating women like shit. I am talking about a common theme among male though patterns: sex. And if the thought of sex happens to involve women, or perhaps a particular woman, so what?
Like I said, you are justifying very basic misogynistic attitudes. I'm truly sorry if a "common theme" for you is simply viewing women as sex objects.Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:42:08 |
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| purpose Sweden. January 02 2012 18:43. Posts 1017 | Profile # |
Serious though, this is not such a big deal. I know alot of girls that I could grab. Sure in some situations some of them might not like it. but they would never ever see it as a crime. if it is not ok they would tell me. Just as I would if they grabbed my balls. I would not see it as a sexual harass.
Destiny knows mia, she seemed fine with it so why bother so much? State of the game have had drunken shows. incontrol has even comitted a crime in the early stages of sc2. he restreamed gsl I think and casted it. that actually was breaking the law and he could have been charged for it. He did not know he broke the law and apologized and stopped.
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| ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:45. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:19 doko100 wrote:
[quote]
You can't compare killing someone with touching someone's boobies. How old are you, like 12? Nevermind, I don't even think 12 year olds would think like that.
I never once compared the two acts. All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything. |
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| Hoffies Guam. January 02 2012 18:45. Posts 4 | Profile # |
| When I grab women, they like it. It's just the kind of guy I am. I can do it at the club, pub, or even in the library. It usually leads to sex or at least a ph number. I have a gift, I admit it |
| | srs business is the last refuge of the shallow |
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| Excomm United States. January 02 2012 18:45. Posts 143 | Profile Blog # |
On January 02 2012 18:11 Shikyo wrote:
Hey hey here I thought she was there as a guest and not as a pick-up from some bar O_O My entire point is about RESPECT. In that kind of a situation you shouldn't even think about doing anything sexual.
In the context of the material that Destiny has had on his stream in the past including but not limited to SC2 bm, LoL bm, use of racial slurs, sexist remarks and belittling of guests (verbal), I would have very little expectation of being treated with respect as a guest on Destiny's stream (I don't watch every week, but I have seen examples of the above more than a few times).
You can see the same type of behavior on display at many pop concerts and people regard it as entertainment. Given that Destiny has built his stream following mostly upon the expectation of providing entertainment first and "professional" SC2 behind that I doubt that he was even thinking about anything sexual (and probably wasn't thinking much at all) when he groped Mia. I don't think he meant any disrespect at all and just thought it would be entertaining (for fans of both parties) to do it.
I may be mistaken, but I don't think Mia was offended by what happened so it seems a bit extreme to me that some posters are comparing what Destiny did to sexual assault when in the context of the situation it wasn't unexpected.
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| CEPEHDREI Germany. January 02 2012 18:47. Posts 1511 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:45 doko100 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
[quote]
I never once compared the two acts.
All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything.
in todays society you start with trying to kiss her and not with grabbing her boobs after she told him 23232x times NO TOUCHING. But why the fuck are u guys even talking about that? As long as she doesnt do anything against it shouldnt matter.
god my brain hurts. both sides in here with so many dumb points. Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:51:32 |
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| Rbd January 02 2012 18:48. Posts 19 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:45 doko100 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:21 Rbd wrote:
[quote]
I never once compared the two acts.
All I'm doing is presenting another scenario where you can do something that the other person obviously consented to. They never said no, right?
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything.
In our societies laws it is also illegal. If you do it to a girl you know and it turns out she is ok with it or at the least not offended and tells you to stop you are ok, but that relies on trust for the other person to not flip out on you.
By definition of the law, if you even shake someone's hand without their consent, and not saying "no" is not consent, you are in a situation that can get you into trouble.
By our societies laws, the "Giving consent by letting it happen" is not at all relevant. |
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| ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:49. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:48 Rbd wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:45 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:23 doko100 wrote:
[quote]
That is not the same. When you kill a person, you are automatically commiting a crime, therefore its self-explanatory that what you are doing is wrong. When you touch someone's tits it depends on their reaction wether or not they like or dislike it. Of course you cant just touch random people you dont know. But destiny and mia know eachother and Mia seemed to be ok with it, so there is no problem, never was, never will be, you are just stiring up some shit because you have probably never touched a girl before, so why should others, right?
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no? Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay? I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything.
In our societies laws it is also illegal. If you do it to a girl you know and it turns out she is ok with it or at the least not offended and tells you to stop you are ok, but that relies on trust for the other person to not flip out on you. By definition of the law, if you even shake someone's hand without their consent, and not saying "no" is not consent, you are in a situation that can get you into trouble. By our societies laws, the "Giving consent by letting it happen" is not at all relevant.
shaking someone's hand can not get you into trouble wtf man
edit: And if someone shakes your hand it actually means they are giving consent, because... you know... they are shaking your fucking hand.
Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:51:18 |
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| Titan_Ansiminus United States. January 02 2012 18:50. Posts 27 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:49 doko100 wrote:
shaking someone's hand can not get you into trouble wtf man
Nah, US legal system is uptight enough that it could (probably in California)Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:52:01 |
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| ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:51. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:50 Titan_Ansiminus wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:49 doko100 wrote:
shaking someone's hand can not get you into trouble wtf man
Nah, US legal system is uptight enough that it could
No it really couldn't. It takes two people to shake hands. |
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| purpose Sweden. January 02 2012 18:52. Posts 1017 | Profile # |
Jeez can we just let it go. Mia will never press charges so no crime was comitted here. Was it unapropriate by destiny...fuck yea, was it disrespectful...a bit yes but it is also somewhat understandable seeing as he probably can not handle alcohol that well and I think mia knows that.
Destiny got drunk, abit excited that a hot girl was there and got carried away. I think mia perhaps saw it as abit annoying but probably not offended, nor a situation she could not handle so why bother so much about it?
Just let it go. |
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| Rbd January 02 2012 18:52. Posts 19 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:49 doko100 wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:48 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:45 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:26 Rush042 wrote:
[quote]
This brings a lot more in to question though. Where do you draw the line? If I've known someone for X years, then Y sexual act is okay because they haven't said no?
Obviously if I go up to a random girl on the street and grab her tits, it's a crime, so at what point between complete strangers, and where Destiny and Mia are in terms of knowing each other, did that become okay?
I'm not suggesting people run every act by any partner, that would be ridiculous, but legally it is a crime unless you have clear consent.
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything.
In our societies laws it is also illegal. If you do it to a girl you know and it turns out she is ok with it or at the least not offended and tells you to stop you are ok, but that relies on trust for the other person to not flip out on you. By definition of the law, if you even shake someone's hand without their consent, and not saying "no" is not consent, you are in a situation that can get you into trouble. By our societies laws, the "Giving consent by letting it happen" is not at all relevant.
shaking someone's hand can not get you into trouble wtf man
Yes it can. Physically touching someone without their consent, and once again for you, letting it happen is not consent, is against the law. Will people try to press charges if you walk up and grab their hand? probably not, but could they? absolutely.
Just because you are ignorant of the law and all you focus on is your perceived idea of what you think things should be doesn't change how things are in society.
Edit: you clearly cannot read. My example was if you walked up to someone and grabbed their hand without their consent and you shook their hand when they didn't want to.Last edit: 2012-01-02 18:53:51 |
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| ChaosTerran Austria. January 02 2012 18:54. Posts 844 | Profile # |
On January 02 2012 18:52 Rbd wrote:
Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 18:49 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:48 Rbd wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:45 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:41 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:39 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:36 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:31 doko100 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:30 Rush042 wrote:
On January 02 2012 18:29 doko100 wrote:
[quote]
You want to know where you draw the line? when the girl tells you "no", walks away or pushes you away. That is where you draw the line. Mia did not do that, so Destiny didnt do anything wrong. end of story.
So if I go up to a complete stranger and grab her, and THEN she pushes me away... did I do something wrong?
Mia isn't a complete stranger, derp.
Right, but I'm asking you to tell me when the shift happens. When does it turn from being "Not okay, because it's a complete stranger," to "I know her, so I thought I would try it?" I'm not saying what Destiny did with Mia was sexual harassment, I don't believe it was.. that being said, I do believe that there are cases where a girl is unable, for some reason, to say no, or resist, and it can still be harassment. There is a lot of abuse that comes from people not being able to say no to people.
It's a social thing, more than anything. If you know the girl and have the feeling she might be ok with it, you could try it, it's hard to tell sure, but it's not the same situation (stranger/friend). And Mia gave consent because she let it happen, so I don't see the problem anyway.
I just have problems with the "Giving consent by letting it happen." I think that's an extremely dangerous way of thinking, but, that's getting into a lot more than Destiny's stream, so I'll leave it at that.
But that's how things work in the real world. You don't ask a girl "is it ok if I touch your boobs?", "is it ok for me to give you a hug?", "can I kiss you?"... no.... you just try it, if she rejects you then fine, where's the problem? If she doesn't, then well you should assume that she is ok with it, because any logical thinking human being would just tell you if they are not. Asking for permission, at least in our society, would be perceived as awkward and probably ruin everything. That is actually the social norm, try and get to know a girl, you will realize that it's not an easy step and incredibly hard to judge for yourself if she will be ok with it or not, but you have to try to find out, asking - in today's society - is not an option. Would it be better? Yes. But it's simply not the social norm and if you ever want to have sex with a girl, asking will make you seem pathetic more than anything.
In our societies laws it is also illegal. If you do it to a girl you know and it turns out she is ok with it or at the least not offended and tells you to stop you are ok, but that relies on trust for the other person to not flip out on you. By definition of the law, if you even shake someone's hand without their consent, and not saying "no" is not consent, you are in a situation that can get you into trouble. By our societies laws, the "Giving consent by letting it happen" is not at all relevant.
shaking someone's hand can not get you into trouble wtf man
Yes it can. Physically touching someone without their consent, and once again for you, letting it happen is not consent, is against the law. Will people try to press charges if you walk up and grab their hand? probably not, but could they? absolutely. Just because you are ignorant of the law and all you focus on is your perceived idea of what you think things should be doesn't change how things are in society.
Dude, for god's sake, if I shake your hand it means that I gave consent by shaking your fucking hand and you gave consent by shaking my hand. If I didn't want to shake your hand, I simply wouldn't do it.
edit: And what crime would shaking someone's hands be? Like what? Assault? LMAOLast edit: 2012-01-02 18:55:13 |
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| Shikyo Finland. January 02 2012 18:54. Posts 20145 | Profile Blog # |
| Well either way it's derailed quite a bit, originally my point was just about the respect for a guest(an important guest, in my opinion, I'd call her a celebrity) |
| | "I shall wait for you in death's halls, my Love (love love love love~)" |
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