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| StarMasterX United States. May 27 2010 17:50. Posts 113 | Profile # |
This all sounds good in theory, but I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you leave the game developers in charge of growing e-sports it will be failure.
Also by the time I read this it was page 20, but let me get this straight....isn't Blizzard screwing all other Korean channels by signing exclusively with Gom? To me this goes far beyond Kespa, and Blizzard's "we don't want to dominate e-sports" comment doesn't seem true at all. |
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| Eury Sweden. May 27 2010 17:50. Posts 1028 | Profile # |
Why are people still living under the illusion that KeSPA created e-sports in South Korea?
On May 27 2010 17:50 Garrl wrote:
This. Honestly, since Activision bought majority share in Blizzard, they've been sliding down into being my most hated developer.
Vivendi (owner of Blizzard since 98) merged Vivendi games with Activision to create Activision-Blizzard, and they retained a majority share in the new company.
In other words nothing have changed for Blizzard. At the end of the day it is Vivendi is the one that call the shots, and it have been that way since Starcraft got released.Last edit: 2010-05-27 17:56:06 |
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| SmoKim Denmark. May 27 2010 17:54. Posts 8203 | Profile # |
so much arguing going on here, hell i just hope everything works out, BW and Sc2 are great(or Wc3)
all im worried about is if we need to pay for watching GOM-tv.
Still think its impossible to really predict what's going to happen now, at least until the game is out.
/crosses fingers |
| | "LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon |  |
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| DorF Sweden. May 27 2010 17:55. Posts 945 | Profile Blog # |
| Whatever Blizzard has to say about kespa violating their intellectual rights or whatnot KeSpa made thousands and thousands more fans for BW and in a direct connection also for SC2 just by doing theese "illegal" tournaments or wtf they like to call it . Blizzard are assholes , I hope MBC and OGN can continue MSL, OSL and so forth. |
| | BW for life ! |  |
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| HeIios Sweden. May 27 2010 17:55. Posts 2490 | Profile # |
This is wonderful news!
To all the doomsayers, why are you so scared of change?
Do you think GOMtv will just take this great opportunity and piss it down the drain?
The whole scene will adapt, and something new and amazing will be the result.
There will be some hardships at the earliest but I have great faith that everything will turn out just fine.
More tasteless, woohoo!
[edit]
(To some of the guys earlier in the thread) If you have a problem paying for world class e-sports, then maybe you shouldn't have an opinion to begin with. And lets not forget, GOMtv had free viewing and the option to pay more for a HD stream. I don't think they will change this.
Last edit: 2010-05-27 17:59:01 |
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 Boonbag France. May 27 2010 17:55. Posts 2135 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 17:50 Eury wrote:
Why are people still living under the illusion that KeSPA created e-sports in South Korea?
I asked mods several times to make a news post about Kespa history and pro gaming history in Korea.
I'm gonna end up doing it. I was in Korea around the time Kespa was about to be created.
Nobody is saying Kespa created esports.
Kespa is the structure that was builded to try and run things in a global fashion rather than each organizer separetly.
Also, the birth of Kespa was decided between a few companies and the governement. |
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| Eury Sweden. May 27 2010 17:58. Posts 1028 | Profile # |
On May 27 2010 17:55 Boonbag wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:50 Eury wrote:
Why are people still living under the illusion that KeSPA created e-sports in South Korea?
I asked mods several times to make a news post about Kespa history and pro gaming history in Korea. I'm gonna end up doing it. I was in Korea around the time Kespa was about to be created. Nobody is saying Kespa created esports. Kespa is the structure that was builded to try and run things in a global fashion rather than each organizer separetly. Also, the birth of Kespa was decided between a few companies and the governement.
Good, I hope someone makes that article. But there are plenty of people in this very thread that seems to believe that KeSPA was the organization that created E-sports in Korea, and they are not just a regulation body that haven't been around for that long. |
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 p4NDemik United States. May 27 2010 17:59. Posts 13823 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 17:33 StarcraftMan wrote:
What Letmelose said.
If ain't broke, don't fix it.
Leaving KESPA alone would practically guarantee a successful Pro-League with SC2.
Doing it from scratch with GomTV is 50/50 and there is a possibility of SC2 never establishing a Pro-League.
Letmelose's post summed up a lot of how I feel about this situation as well. This exactly is my issue with how this is all going down. I'd hate to see all this being left up to chance after things have come so far.
So many people are excited at this move purely because they want to pick sides and proclaim their hatred of KeSPA and the powers that be, but don't seem to realize the consequences that this may have on the game succeeding as a competitive endeavor. |
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| StarcraftMan Canada. May 27 2010 17:59. Posts 491 | Profile Blog # |
[u]
On May 27 2010 17:37 EvilTeletubby wrote:
@ fallingdream -> I don't think it's that anyone really likes Kespa here, it's just Kespa staying in their current position is the best to ensure that progaming as we know it continues. It's still a very, very fragile system that could easily be dealt a killing blow with one mis-step.
^^^
QFT
Some of you KESPA haters need to realize this: Pro-gaming is VERY FRAGILE. Let me repeat that word again:
Fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile, fragile ....
There is NO SIGNIFICANT PRO-GAMING LEAGUE WORLDWIDE other than the sole SC1 Pro Scene in Korea. CS and WC3 are not pro-leagues - they cannot fill a stadium with 10K+ cheering fans like the SC1 Pro-League. Remember that SC1 has had finals with over 50K fans attending. There is only one successful Pro-League for all of E-Sports and that is the SC1 Pro-League.
With Blizzard and GomTV running the show, we risk going back to the dark ages before Boxer's time.
If there were numerous other successful Pro-Leagues world wide, I don't mind it if Blizzard screws with KESPA and the Korean SC2 Pro-League failed. Unfortunately, there are no other successful Pro-Leagues world wide and we can't afford to have our ONLY SUCCESSFUL Pro-League fail.
Last edit: 2010-05-27 17:59:25 |
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| zs3000 United States. May 27 2010 18:00. Posts 43 | Profile # |
On May 27 2010 17:24 Letmelose wrote:
There's not enough money in E-Sports for everyone to have a big piece of the pie.
Here is how big the scene is.
There are two cable channels dedicated to the coverage of E-Sports; OGN and MBC Game. Each broadcasting channel has an individual league, but that's not where the money is. The money is in the Proleague, with the corporate sponsored teams duking it out for glory. The corporations that are funding the teams ARE Kespa, and they OWN the players. They get no direct profit from the scene other than the exposure they get on television.
GomTV has no television channel of their own. It's just an internet broadcasting system. While it makes no difference for the average non-Korean viewer. It is a HUGE difference for the Koreans. Yes, the hardcore fans will follow professional Starcraft no matter what the media is, but do you expect the corporate sponsors to keep the scene alive simply for the fans? Total bullshit. They're in it for the air time on television and public relations reasons.
I don't give two shits about bunch of money hungry whores playing their ego battles for what they feel they deserve, but what I DO care for is the scene that the PLAYERS have created through their dedication, their inhuman skills and passion for the game in general. The conditions under which they play are mind boggling, and not at all lucrative for the effort they put in, but things are better than they were before. You know why? Because E-Sports in Korea has developed from a select few gamers going around looking for tournament prizes to rake in, to having corporate sponsored teams that pays them (not much, unfortunately, in most cases) for what they do.
The moment the corporate sponsors lose control over the scene, that serves no function (in their minds) other than getting them exposure to nationwide younger audiences, I wouldn't be surprised if they ditched the scene for Blizzard to deal with. Or even worse, leave the scene in ruins, with Korea's finest gaming minds not able to showcase their skills ANYWHERE if Kespa makes them uphold their contracts with their teams (that are controlled by Kespa).
FUCK THAT. Fuck the English commentary by GomTV. Fuck Blizzard for getting their share. Fuck Starcaft 2. Blizzard doesn't feed the scene. Blizzard didn't create the scene. There's already one money hungry whore running the scene for what little market it has (it's NOT that big I assure you), but at least it is willing to keep the teams running (and the teams pay the players, and the players ARE the scene). What makes you people think Blizzard is willing to spend millions running the teams? Blizzard is in it for the money, just like Kespa.
If the corporate sponsors that run Kespa don't feel like the E-Sports industry isn't worth giving Blizzard what they desire, we'll be left with Blizzard and GomTV running the scene with what is left over from the scene. A bunch of unpaid teenagers. No television coverage. Falling interest from the Korean viewers. It doesn't matter how good Starcaft 2 is. We'll have to start all over, and there's no guarantee that it'll work again this time. Blizzard are money hungry whores. At least Kespa doesn't hide it.
I like this post :O |
| | www.justin.tv/zs3000 |  |
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| Letmelose Korea (South). May 27 2010 18:02. Posts 642 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 17:50 Eury wrote:
Why are people still living under the illusion that KeSPA created e-sports in South Korea?
They didn't. The gamers and a few others made the scene noticable enough for corporations to take an interest and start funding the scene for coverage and control over the scene. The scene grew even bigger with more televised games of Starcarft than ever before. Now Blizzard wants a piece. They don't want to fund the scene for coverage and control like Kespa. Nope, they want coverage and control over the scene for having created the game. If it all works out, fine, Blizzard can get more money for having created a brilliant game that made all this possible.
However, the corporations that run the show don't give a FUCK about E-Sports. They care about money. Blizzard wants the money. Looks like the corporate sponsors will just leave the scene to die rather than giving Blizzard what they want. Jesus, why can't anyone see this. |
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| Boonbag France. May 27 2010 18:03. Posts 2135 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 18:02 Letmelose wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 27 2010 17:50 Eury wrote:
Why are people still living under the illusion that KeSPA created e-sports in South Korea?
They didn't. The gamers and a few others made the scene noticable enough for corporations to take an interest and start funding the scene for coverage and control over the scene. The scene grew even bigger with more televised games of Starcarft than ever before. Now Blizzard wants a piece. They don't want to fund the scene for coverage and control like Kespa. Nope, they want coverage and control over the scene for having created the game. If it all works out, fine, Blizzard can get more money for having created a brilliant game that made all this possible. However, the corporations that run the show don't give a FUCK about E-Sports. They care about money. Blizzard wants the money. Looks like the corporate sponsors will just leave the scene to die rather than giving Blizzard what they want. Jesus, why can't anyone see this.
Listen to this man, everyone !
Samsung, SKT, KT etc
They're huge companies and treated esports very harshly (aside samsung somewhat.. tho its debatable) in its infancy.
If sc1 dies tomorrow they wont rescue it either. That's why you don't see people, GOM and Blizzard wont put up the money top run the show, and the sponsors they'll find to match the old system will just have to be these same companies otherwise the leagues will be cheap, just like GOM sc1 league.
Last edit: 2010-05-27 18:07:10 |
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| Scorch Austria. May 27 2010 18:05. Posts 2937 | Profile Blog # |
This was a smart move by Blizzard. Responsibility to handle things now lies with GomTV, Blizzard got their money and doesn't need to spend further resources on the matter. GomTV is a Korean company and may be able to make deals with KeSPA/OGN/MBC better than Blizzard. Even if they don't succeed, Blizzard can say it's not their fault.
At best, we can have a prospering scene with Proleague and three individual leagues like in 2008/09 for both Broodwar and Starcraft2, except without half the teams boycotting GOM's tournament.
At worst, due to uncertainty and bad negotiating, no sponsors are willing to invest money and everything goes down the drain, with only GomTV broadcasting weak semi-professional games on a payable stream. |
| | What? The land of the free? Whoever told you that is your enemy. |  |
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| mdb May 27 2010 18:06. Posts 3568 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 17:37 EvilTeletubby wrote:
@ fallingdream -> I don't think it's that anyone really likes Kespa here, it's just Kespa staying in their current position is the best to ensure that progaming as we know it continues. It's still a very, very fragile system that could easily be dealt a killing blow with one mis-step.
On April 25 2010 12:42 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 12:36 Megalisk wrote:
So SC2 can potentially fizzle and fail as an ESPORT? Sweet..
Nope. If there is demand, another group, LESS FUCKING RETARDED than Kespa, will step up to the plate. I have no fear whatsoever that SC2 (and SC1 for that matter) can continue just fine without Kespa.
ETT, you and waxangel were the people (moderators, whose opinion is most valued) who were one of the most active spreading the Kespa-hate on this website. Dont you think that when blizzard was checking teamliquid.net and see all the shit thrown upon Kespa, this wasnt the final thing that lead them to take this descision and stop working with Kespa? I think you should take responsibility for this.
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| Hectic Australia. May 27 2010 18:10. Posts 158 | Profile Blog # |
In reality, apart from us hardcore TL'ers no one in western society even knows what broodwar is, and starcraft won't last forever in Korea. It's still chump change when you look at the bigger picture.
Hence, i think this move by Blizzard is well worth it because somethings needs to be done to push e-sports along.
Even if it totally fails it's worth the gamble. For all we know competitive PC gaming is not even safe when you look at how many people choose to play mindless console games and MMO's instead. If things just stay the way they are then we are a dying breed.
please Blizzard, save us and bring esports to the masses. I don't want to be 40 years old and looking back on the golden age of PC gaming when people, long ago, played starcraft in korea. When im 40 years old i want to be watching starcraft games live while being bombarded by advertisement and pop culture.
At the very least GOM presents starcraft to english speaking people in an entertaining and professional way. I'd rather take my chances on that then let the game rot and die a slow death, while we listen to vods in korean. lol. If esports is gooing to take the world it has too appeal to more than a few hundred thousand western geeks outside of korea. Last edit: 2010-05-27 18:21:29 |
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| Sandrosuperstar Sweden. May 27 2010 18:13. Posts 523 | Profile # |
| Edit: im not so sure anymore... Last edit: 2010-05-27 18:28:08 |
| | I'm homo for Lomo, gay for GGplay, but at the end of the day I put my dong in Lee Jaedong | |
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| Boonbag France. May 27 2010 18:14. Posts 2135 | Profile Blog # |
I dont really get why Blizzard anyway is trying to lock this as they don't have any official plan set for Esports, and OGN and MBC wouldve just gave their new game free advertisement. Daily. On tv.
I mean, what the fuck ? |
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| GGzerG United States. May 27 2010 18:14. Posts 3513 | Profile Blog # |
| this is so awesome !! im so happy for this man |
| | http://cafe.daum.net/everguild @ Fish... ~Fish SPECIAL LEAGUE CHAMPIONS! :) *RIP Violet, RIP n.Die_aSam* |  |
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| Garrl Scotland. May 27 2010 18:16. Posts 1121 | Profile Blog # |
On May 27 2010 18:13 Sandrosuperstar wrote:Kespa will no longer be able to run pl IF gom demands them not to. The way i see it now progamers will be able to play sc2 aswell as participate in other tournaments not sponsored by kespa, gom will work as a governing body keeping companies from creating a monopoly. Atleast that's what i hope their policy is  i really need to know what gom wants/will do !!!!!!
GOM WILL be a monopoly. NO OTHER company can actually broadcast. GOM will obviously demand that KesPA doesn't run PL, aswell as MBC and OGN runnng the MSL and OSL; they've effectively given all the power to GOM to create a monopoly. From there, GOM can do whatever the fuck they want; they can charge £1000/customer to view their games if they really wanted.
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| Eury Sweden. May 27 2010 18:18. Posts 1028 | Profile # |
A lot of people are mentioning how greedy Blizzard is and how they are just after more money. Which may or may not be true, but even if it is true I don't see how it have to be something bad for e-sports.
The purpose of a company is to generate money, and you would want them to believe that there are money to be made in e-sports, or e-sports will never grow to become big.
The more money to be made in e-sports the more money companies will be willing to invest into it. Simple as that.
I hope e-sports will become extremely profitable for companies like Blizzard because that will not only make Blizzard more inclined to care about e-sports, but it will also show other gaming companies that catering games to a more competitive crowd might not be such a bad idea.
And if game companies are profiting from e-sports then other companies outside of the industry will want to be part of that further driving the revenue in e-sports, thus maybe in the future we can have more than a handful of players that gets paid a decent salary.Last edit: 2010-05-27 18:20:11 |
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