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 Mylin   Sweden. May 28 2010 05:30. Posts 177
Profile Blog # 
It's actually quite problematic in itself that in e-sports someone actually 'owns' the game (unlike sports) and the game companies of course have different objectives then for example a gaming league.

Theoretically we can have SC2 now for say 5-6 years then Blizzard finishes developing SC3 and it turns out to be the biggest piece of shit game ever for competetive gaming. Blizzard still would probably say 'Hey you wanna run SC2 tourneys then you better pay XXX,XXX something ridiculous or we won't negotiate a new contract' to force the leagues to switch over to their new game (which in turn "forces" alot of players to do so).

Actually as I wrote that I realized that's basically what they're doing right now with BW and SC2.

No game companies having this influence over competetive gaming is just not healthy it would be best if IPR laws made it so the leagues could just pick and choose between whatever games they wanted (which in extension is what people want to compete in and watch).
Last edit: 2010-05-28 05:31:39
no
Old Post

 
 bmml   United Kingdom. May 28 2010 05:32. Posts 955
Profile # 
I forgot MLG started up again this year (after a year long~ hiatus) but I seem to remember the costs for WoW at such events as MLG being so high it stopped other interested parties in starting these things up.
Last edit: 2010-05-28 05:34:18
 
Old Post

 
 mahnini   United States. May 28 2010 05:33. Posts 6768
Profile Blog # 

On May 27 2010 21:19 Boonbag wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +


The money gain/ saving they were making through esport advertisement was calculated and actually published and posted a few years back on Team liquid.

And a team can't win mutiple time its entrance fee dude. The cash prize is very small. I mean, it sounds like you never ever watched pro gaming or know any detail about it.

Just search these forums, you'll find plently of information.



???

On December 08 2007 01:04 Daigomi wrote:
MSL was 50k last season.
OSL was 40k last season.
PL was either 80k or 120k last season.

you are misunderstanding what i am saying when it comes to profit. whether or not the teams make money directly is not relevant, you can either assume that all these multimillion dollar companies enjoy taking losses sponsoring esports or that they are in fact seeing significant return by doing so. you can't just appeal to you historical knowledge of the progaming scene here, it's not going to cut it. what blizzard is doing is fully within their rights if korean law is anything like us law and the only reason people seem to be thinking otherwise is because they think kespa is some benevolent esports entity that did it for the game (which, if this were true, they would continue support it anyway).
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
Old Post

 
 Teddyman   Finland. May 28 2010 05:35. Posts 357
Profile # 
Basically there are 2 possibilities, either Blizzard's permission is needed to broadcast BW or it isn't.

If it is needed, then KeSPA still has a chance to negotiate a deal with GomTV. Not making such a deal would mean that the entirety of the current BW pro scene is just giving up and holding their breath to see if GomTV will run a BW league so that the players don't have to get "real" jobs. In this case we would either see progaming succeed since there was enough money to pay the legitimate rights holder, or fail because there wasn't. Yes, it would suck that leagues would have to stop because the sponsors wouldn't believe enough in the sport to put up the cash to pay the rights holder. Realistically in that case it would be better to take a step backwards in esports and run it at the scale where it can pay off all its bills.

If Blizzard is just full of hot air and the law doesn't require their permission to run tournaments, all signs point that BW progaming will continue as normal. I don't think this is a likely scenario, as it would mean even less chance of seeing SC2 on Korean TV and less money for Blizzard in every respect, so I bet they have done their research on this matter.


On May 28 2010 01:04 Boonbag wrote:
To all of you, happy of this, have fun watching shitty leagues in english, with a shit quality, and shit players that will end up selling hot dogs on the streets once they turn 20.


Sadly, about 80% of pro license holders would make more money doing that.
When you're being provoked, don't get provoked.
Old Post

 
 Kralic   Canada. May 28 2010 05:35. Posts 2566
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:32 bmml wrote:
I forgot MLG started up again this year (after a year long~ hiatus) but I seem to remember the costs for WoW at such events as MLG being so high it stopped other interested parties in starting these things up.


Really because I remember following the 2009 tour unless I was just high and thought I was watching it.
Brood War forever!
Old Post

 
 infinity2k9   United Kingdom. May 28 2010 05:36. Posts 2398
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:18 hasuprotoss wrote:

Show nested quote +



Yeah, but the corporations don't necessarily "own" the teams either.

Western corporations sponsor a whole bunch of stuff, from NASCAR drivers to NHL teams, NBA teams, etc.

If the demand to watch professional sports is there, then companies will want to advertise their product.


Can't you see the difference between those and the SC scene? All 3 of those can exist by selling TV rights to their leagues which is the same thing people are getting worked up about KeSPA trying to sell. Alongside that is gate receipts to events and merchandise. So you have none of those things and only sponsorships as any revenue at all, hence the proteams being owned by them. Unless you are going to get some private rich people willing to own proteams there's literally no other way to do it, at least to create teams to the extent of the current BW ones. Of course there is foreign progame teams but we are not talking anywhere near the same amount of upkeep cost.

I don't think people realize how little money is involved here in contrast with bigger sports. KeSPA have already stated they are willing to pay reasonable royalties to Blizzard for broadcasting, which they did for BW in the past, it was the other requirements that i believe they were not willing to agree to (and judging by the list of demands it was reasonable to reject it).
Old Post

 
 Tristan   Canada. May 28 2010 05:37. Posts 565
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:30 Mylin wrote:
It's actually quite problematic in itself that in e-sports someone actually 'owns' the game (unlike sports) and the game companies of course have different objectives then for example a gaming league.

Theoretically we can have SC2 now for say 5-6 years then Blizzard finishes developing SC3 and it turns out to be the biggest piece of shit game ever for competetive gaming. Blizzard still would probably say 'Hey you wanna run SC2 tourneys then you better pay XXX,XXX something ridiculous or we won't negotiate a new contract' to force the leagues to switch over to their new game (which in turn "forces" alot of players to do so).

Actually as I wrote that I realized that's basically what they're doing right now with BW and SC2.

No game companies having this influence over competetive gaming is just not healthy it would be best if IPR laws made it so the leagues could just pick and choose between whatever games they wanted (which in extension is what people want to compete in and watch).


I don't think Blizzard is intentionally going out of their way to kill Brood War. Way I saw it KeSPA was going way out of their way to kill SC2 because they couldn't get the same deal they had with BW
http://Zangano431.tumblr.com/
Old Post

 
 baeracaed   United States. May 28 2010 05:39. Posts 604
Profile Blog # 
I would say board/card games are a better analogy. You can't play Starcraft without Starcraft, but you can play football with old shoe. Blizzard isn't trying to own the RTS genre, just their brand of RTS.

To me it's the same way the NFL/NBA work. If you don't use their likeness, rebroadcast their games, etc. then play/broadcast football football all you want. People can play/compete with other RTS games. Still, imho sports is a bad analogy.
(☞゚ヮ゚)☞ Cookies! ☜(゚ヮ゚☜)
Old Post

 
 WiljushkA   Serbia. May 28 2010 05:43. Posts 1402
Profile # 

and shit players that will end up selling hot dogs on the streets once they turn 20.


already happening.
"As much as I love the image of me F5-ing paypal every 15 minutes while fist pumping and screaming "SHIP THE MONEY BITCHES"" - Day9
Old Post

 
 Mylin   Sweden. May 28 2010 05:46. Posts 177
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:37 TheElitists wrote:

Show nested quote +



I don't think Blizzard is intentionally going out of their way to kill Brood War. Way I saw it KeSPA was going way out of their way to kill SC2 because they couldn't get the same deal they had with BW


I don't think this is about wheter you prefer BW or SC2, KeSPA or Blizzard but rather just a problem that game companies basically got all the leverage in matters regarding e-sports and e-sports isn't always their primary concern (while for leagues/proteams and broadcasting companies like MBC and OGN it is cause that's where they make their money).

I hate KeSPA as much as anyone aswell but still what's happening here is not good at all.
Last edit: 2010-05-28 05:47:41
no
Old Post

 
 heishe   Germany. May 28 2010 05:47. Posts 2132
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 03:46 infinity2k9 wrote:
Can you imagine a western company ever owning a pro videogame team? It'll never happen. Its so sad it took so long to get where it is today with sponsors to now possibly be thrown away.


You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?




If you value your soul, never look into the eye of a horse. Your soul will forever be lost in the void of the horse.
Old Post

 
 I_Love_Bacon   May 28 2010 05:50. Posts 4100
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?



Doctor Pepper, Old Spice, and Stride gum have been sponsoring MLG for a while as well, from an organizational standpoint.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Old Post

 
 infinity2k9   United Kingdom. May 28 2010 05:52. Posts 2398
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?







Sponsoring is not the same as owning a team. AIG is/was the sponsor of Manchester United, but they do not own the team. Try asking Intel to pay for your clans premises, transport, player wages.
Old Post

 
 shalafi   May 28 2010 05:52. Posts 328
Profile # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?




Doesn't that mean $500 a year instead of $30000 a month?
 
Old Post

 
 maybenexttime   Poland. May 28 2010 05:52. Posts 3083
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?







LOL, are you serious? Sustaining a progaming team in Korea costs hundreds of thouusands if not millions of dollars afaik. What the companies you mentioned do is give some hardware or a handful of shirts. T____T

Those two things do not compare.



On May 28 2010 05:37 TheElitists wrote:

Show nested quote +



I don't think Blizzard is intentionally going out of their way to kill Brood War. Way I saw it KeSPA was going way out of their way to kill SC2 because they couldn't get the same deal they had with BW


Blizzard wanted those very same terms to apply to BW. Their terms were simply ridiculous. I bet GOMTV agreed to less strict ones (simply for the fact that GOMTV does not own any progaming teams so they cannot give away the ownership to Blizzard...).
Last edit: 2010-05-28 05:55:30
 
Old Post

 
 hacpee   United States. May 28 2010 05:53. Posts 740
Profile # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?




How many of those clan members play 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for 4+ years just to make it? Fact is that I don't care about the gamers. Esports isn't about the people who play. Esports is about producing the most exciting and enticing product. If blizzard does something that reduces the quality of the product, I will be against it. If blizzard starts sponsoring real programing houses where players follow a rigorous 12 hour a day, 6 days a week schedule then I welcome them with open arms.
 
Old Post

  Amnesia   United States. May 28 2010 05:53. Posts 3818Profile Blog # 
Fuck SC2. lol. Seriously. Who wants to watch a retarded 1a game that takes so little skill whatsoever?

If SC1 dies I will quit the Starcraft scene for good.
 
Old Post

 
 I_Love_Bacon   May 28 2010 05:56. Posts 4100
Profile Blog # 
This reeks of people unable to accept change. Omg, progaming teams/houses might change?!?!?! Blasphemy. How will an e-sport exist without such things?!?!?!?!
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Old Post

 
 maybenexttime   Poland. May 28 2010 05:56. Posts 3083
Profile Blog # 

On May 28 2010 05:56 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
This reeks of people unable to accept change. Omg, progaming teams/houses might change?!?!?! Blasphemy. How will an e-sport exist without such things?!?!?!?!


Change? How about cease to exist? Stop being dellusional...
 
Old Post

 
 Grebliv   Iceland. May 28 2010 05:57. Posts 796
Profile # 

On May 28 2010 05:47 heishe wrote:

Show nested quote +



You mean like Intel, Pepsi and Puma (only to name 3 of many many other western sponsors) that have sponsoring contracts with many clans out there?







not really comparable as said, paying a full team salary, housing and food vs shelling some hardware and perhaps salary for the odd overachiever or two.


On May 28 2010 05:56 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
This reeks of people unable to accept change. Omg, progaming teams/houses might change?!?!?! Blasphemy. How will an e-sport exist without such things?!?!?!?!


Well if you kill progaming teams/houses, you'll most likely end up with a scene pretty equivilent to the foregners scene now, aka B-teamers now would be S-class then
Last edit: 2010-05-28 05:58:57
ESV Mapmaking!
Old Post

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