These are two cute strategies that you can currently pull off, that will likely be removed in later patches. The first is best described by a youtube video:
This works on the same principle as the old colossi idea, except without needing force fields to contain the units. All you need to do is cast vortex on your opponents units, and then throw any number of archons into the vortex before it collapses. When the vortex collapses, the archons will instantly attack, dealing splash damage to every single unit in the vortex before they spread back out- with enough archons, you will instantly kill entire armies doing this. I have killed 150+ food of void rays in a single burst of less than 20 archons before.
This is mostly viable towards the lategame and FFA settings. It will kill any army, easily, though a terran with nukes might be a tricky target- he could take out all your archons if a ghost escapes the abyss. The main problem here (besides it being a very lategame application) is that the mothership is very slow, so targetting a vortex can be difficult. But if your opponent runs into the vortex- which might be fairly likely, since the archons can remain hidden offscreen or cloaked- he'll lose his entire army.
The second is the now very popular cheese strategy, "Reaper Proxy Bunker" Many might already know I've popularized this on the other forums. But unfortunately, I've seen many people doing the build order completely wrong in game.
This is a cheese strategy that can dominate TvP, TvT, and still do fairly decently in TvZ (though is not 'overpowered' there, unlike the other two matchups). It works by getting a reaper out before the 2:45 mark, as well as pushing an aggressive bunker into their base- forcing your opponent to respond with usually only probes, which when micro'd properly can score a win before the 4 minute mark- before protoss usually even get a fast stalker, for example.
This build order has been very honed, and allows for a two fast reapers, one fast marauder, and one fast bunker, all before a normal protoss would get a stalker. Even with a rushed stalker, you could get out a reaper, marauder and bunker before it can possibly be out, even with the fastest stalker build order.
1) Set 5 SCV's to mine. Send the other SCV to a location around the enemies base 2) Build a proxy rax @ 150 minerals, outside the opponents base- easy to hide, hard to find 3) @ 75 minerals, start a refinery 4) @ 50 minerals, start one SCV 5) As your refinery finishes, have 3 total SCV's on gas- the one you just built can rally 6) @ 25 gas, start your tech lab. This should be just as the rax finishes, simultaneously 7) Send the proxy SCV to scout your opponent 8) As the tech lab finishes, start one reaper. Take one SCV off gas and send it to join the scouting SCV at the opponents base. This is optional, but can be important- it provides a redundant SCV in case the first one dies, making the bunker harder to kill, but makes the marauder slightly longer 9) As the reaper finishes, start another reaper. Generally you'll want 2x reapers in a row, not a marauder even if you see an early Cybernetics Core. This is because two reapers can kill all their probes before the stalker gets out most of the time- and then run away as the marauder comes. 10) As your first marauder hits their base, start a bunker. If you position it in their mineral line, it is extraordinarily tough to attack with probes if its blocked on enough sides- the probes will lose their attack command when blocked off the SCV. Otherwise, it can be built at a distance if you force the probes to run away, etc. Remember- even if your bunker dies, if it cost them many probes to kill, it already did its duty. 11) Kite the probes with your reaper(s- as the second comes out). You'll want to start at a large distance from the probes, then pull away and 'run and gun' to slow them down in terms of closing the distance. Taking a few hits can sometimes be worth it to finish off probes, and this becomes a micro vs micro battle. Micro your SCV using halt if it is attacked- or even delay building the bunker until the second reaper is there, if you feel it necessary. 12) After the second reaper is out, build a marauder. This seals the deal "just in case" 13) Everyone loads into the bunker, goes pew pew pew 14) Opponent ragequits and calls you a newb and threatens to report you 15) You move to rank 1 platinum (now diamond) with a 90%+ win rate, like me.
I have replays of both strategies in action if anyone needs.
Come on everybody knows about the reaper in bunker tactic -.- Your build order is just the 7 Rax build. It's a strong cheese in the early game especially on small map but can be fend of with the usual anti cheese mechanics (pull out probes to kill the scv, build a zealot, good probe micro etc).
The archon trick is cute but really I don't know this is likely the kind of things that blizzard doesn't want to happen and you can't really pull it off in serious match-up anyway, so yeah cute but whatever.
Yeah but people keep screwing it up. So I figured I'd post the *exact* build order to let people know how to do it correctly. Its 6 barracks into 7 reaper into 7 bunker, with 2 scvs at the bunker. And it can obviously beats "build a zealot", but then its just a matter of micro vs micro while the first reaper is out (once two reapers are out, no amount of micro is really needed, only a stalker can save them)
I'll find replays from SC2RC. I've posted a million
If your army consists of like 20+ arhcons they won't walk their army into the vortex because 1) the strat is obvious and 2) they can beat your army straight up even with a portion of their force missing cos archons are rubbish.
Though to get a mothership you're probably pretty far ahead anyway.
Mothership might be slow but its got a fairly good range on that vortex. I'd easily say mofoship + archons is the best lategame FFA build right now, especially since it works into the "mass warp gate" idea. You can basically stroll around and instantly kill armies. And if your mothership has full energy, it can recall your army after casting vortex for terrible terrible damage.
Heres my most recent game. Obviously terrible micro on my part. Hell both parts. But I was just farming wins anyway, didn't really need to micro to mass wins. And I also botched the build a little- should have had 2 SCV's, but turned out it wouldn't have helped due to "LOL bunker placement LOL" http://www.sc2rc.com/index.php/replay/show/7247
But the point is the same. Toss goes fast stalker in response to terran, I block his cyb core a bit and decimate his economy before the reaper can even pop out- doesn't do him any good at that point.
The reaper rush is easily defended at higher level play. You posted this already on the bnet forums... and got slammed. If I recall correctly, you lost to a standard 13 gateway play, and them blamed your loss on video card problems even though you played 10+ ladder games afterwards.
That game, where my video went batshit before we even started? I had been telling him that in the lobby. And thats the first person to win out of what, 40-50 games against forumers. Oh noes, I only have a 98% win rate instead of 100% now in TvP.
Zealot -> Cyber -> Zealot -> Stalker is a fun way to lose to Reaper -> Reaper -> Marauder -> Everyone gets in a bunker.
Before the last reset, I had a 90.75% win rate (t_t zerg) in 200 games as Rank 1 Platinum Whats your definition of "higher level play" if thats not? Thats higher level play than you
Desert Oasis is the only map I can think of where the reaper rush is almost impossible to stop if the terran does it right, not matter what build protoss goes for. This is because the bunker doesn't even have to finish, you just have to start it on top of his mineral lines and you have free vision of going up and down ^_^
Why did i watched this replay... I just saw a 20apm protoss playing poorly against a cheese of a 80apm terran. What a waste of time... no chrono boost, stupid decisions with probes...
a proxy 6 rax reaper rush is very hard for a toss without any of the extra stuff anyways. Seems like you basically took a 6 rax proxy reaper rush and also said to build a marauder and called it a new strat....
On June 03 2010 15:55 clan_iraq wrote: That game, where my video went batshit before we even started? I had been telling him that in the lobby. And thats the first person to win out of what, 40-50 games against forumers. Oh noes, I only have a 98% win rate instead of 100% now in TvP.
Zealot -> Cyber -> Zealot -> Stalker is a fun way to lose to Reaper -> Reaper -> Marauder -> Everyone gets in a bunker.
Before the last reset, I had a 90.75% win rate (t_t zerg) in 200 games as Rank 1 Platinum Whats your definition of "higher level play" if thats not? Thats higher level play than you
The thing is, everyone who's watched that replay can see that you couldn't have done much more damage to him no matter what your FPS or graphics situation was. You'd have got at most 3 more probes dead, in all likelihood never would have got the bunker down, and your build is such that if you dont instantly win with it, you instantly lose.
Its hard to deal with, but its not unbeatable. If you think it is, you're going to need to beat the best P players with it, not just random diamonds.
a proxy 6 rax reaper rush is very hard for a toss without any of the extra stuff anyways. Seems like you basically took a 6 rax proxy reaper rush and also said to build a marauder and called it a new strat....
When did I say this was new? This was new when I popularized it what, a month or two ago? I'm just posting this because people keep screwing it up and doing builds that are derivative and worse People should at least do it right if they're going to choose to cheese.
he thing is, everyone who's watched that replay can see that you couldn't have done much more damage to him no matter what your FPS or graphics situation was.
My memory is a little hazy, but didn't I start that game by building an scv, setting all my scvs to mine, then realizing 10 seconds later what I was doing, canceling the SCV and sending one out there and not microing units at all? Its easy to kill an afk reaper with probes- its impossible to kill a micro'd reaper with probes.
On June 03 2010 15:55 clan_iraq wrote: That game, where my video went batshit before we even started? [b]I had been telling him that in the lobby.
No you didn't. I was that person who beat you. You said it after the game started.
And thats the first person to win out of what, 40-50 games against forumers. Oh noes, I only have a 98% win rate instead of 100% now in TvP.
No, I wasn't. There were a few other people who beat you and you changed your argument each time. First time was when someone went 10 gate, and then you said that the guy was prepared for the reaper rush. You then lost to a 12-gate and then changed your argument that standard play cannot stop it. I beat you with a 13-gate. Let's not forget your original claim was that this was an "unbeatable" strat.
Before the last reset, I had a 90.75% win rate (t_t zerg) in 200 games as Rank 1 Platinum Whats your definition of "higher level play" if thats not? Thats higher level play than you
You had a 68.66% winning percentage at 1400 rating. Considering that anything below 1500 was D- level on ICCUP, I stand by my original point: Proxy reaper doesn't work at higher ratings (aside from DO as someone else pointed out)
By the way, my ID was Hocari.jun pre-patch (2000+ rating), and currently, Hocari (650 rating). Going by ratings and our match history (you never offered that rematch by the way), I think it's safe to say you don't classify as higher play. I also think it's safe to say that haven't made a single accurate statement in your entire post.
I just tested this with qxc's build order tester, and what I get is the fastest you get your 1st reaper out is at 2:03. This doesn't include the travel time from reaper to toss base, however close or far that may be.
reaper 2:03 reaper #2 2:33
For protoss:
12gate zealot 2:14 stalker 3:01
10gate zealot 2:04 stalker 2:46
I dunno, I don't see it. I guess if they let you get the bunker up but you basically /have/ to kill them with this. I mean this calls for a whopping 3 scvs mining minerals. And it doesn't take a lot of imagination for one to see probes stopping a bunker and a zealot and a few probes delaying the reapers the ~5 seconds necessary to get a stalker out.
Edit. and I downloaded the replay. - Your 'most recent game' requires sc2 to load an old version? - This protoss was 29 apm - He put all his scvs on your bunker instead of the scv - He didn't boost his stalker. IF he had boosted his stalker he probably would have won.
And for reference, your travel time for reapers from your rax to his base was 11 seconds. So by the time the 2nd reaper arrives, a stalker could just be popping out.
My games before the reset were played on Clani.raq, not Anonymous.claniraq. I obviously have not been reaper rushing since then, because frankly its boring. I think a 68.66% win rate doing "normal" builds is pretty damn good on its own, thank you very much. If you had bothered looking up my account before the reset on that same site, you'd see a 90.75% win ratio- which is what I had, doing this strategy in platinum league.
No you didn't. I was that person who beat you. You said it after the game started.
Yes, I did. You're either just plain lying now or just blind. I had been saying my graphics card had overheated two games before that, and I was trying to fix it.
Do you want me to link to the what, ~50 replays against forumers where I win? Theres already about 15 of them online at sc2rc. Its not hard to search those. Do I have to win 50/50 to prove a point and get a cookie, is 49/50 not enough somehow?
reaper 2:03 reaper #2 2:33
For protoss:
12gate zealot 2:14 stalker 3:01
10gate zealot 2:04 stalker 2:46
Unless you're quoting "real seconds" in fastest mode, I believe you're misunderstanding how the end-game report lists build orders. The time displayed is when you start a unit, not when you finish it. Hence a reaper at 2:03 is a reaper finished at 2:43. A stalker at 2:46 can be from 3:14 to 3:28.
- Your 'most recent game' requires sc2 to load an old version?
This game isn't very fun to start off with, its even less fun with a broken GPU. And didn't patch 14 comes out, yesterday or something?