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[G] ZvP Sheth's Guide

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 All
  Liquid`Sheth   United States. June 29 2010 05:05. Posts 2025Profile Blog # 
Zerg Guide:Tips, Advice, and Tricks For ZvP AND ZvT! (Macro Style)


Hi, my name is Shawn Simon. Some of you may know me better as ChOseN or Sheth. I’ve been playing SC1 and SC2 competitively at high levels for a while now. I thought I would write a sort of general advice page here. If you have any questions or tips for me feel free to leave them as comments. Now to the information!

New Information:

I'm adding in a ZvT guide with a few more interesting tricks. I'm going to compartmentalize it as well as I can with spoilers. Whoever wants to see the new infrormation please click the spoiler below! (If Mods could please adjust the title of this thread to Zerg Sheth's Guide I would appreciate it!)

+ Show Spoiler [*NEW* ZvT Guide!!] +

As a zerg player your initial goal is to start ahead of your opponent in expoes. So let’s discuss ZvP. There is a lot of information for all levels of players, so if the opening paragraph is too simple or too complicated please take the time to read a little more. Thanks!

+ Show Spoiler [ZvP Guide] +

+ Show Spoiler [*NEW* Zerg Tips and Interesting Tricks] +
*NEW* I hope you have enjoyed this guide! If you have any questions that you would like answered about Zerg, or oppinions that differ from my own feel free to post them here and I will discuss them with you as soon as possible! I will very likely write a ZvZ guide or finish the ZvP guide next!

I would like to thank the zergs I have played with and watched replays of that have let me get my own unique style. So big shout outs to Catz, Zelniq, Machine, Slush, Suggy, Artosis, Sen and Dimaga!

*New* (Big thanks to those who have helped me edit this large ball of text. For preventing me from saying anything I'll regret, a big thanks goes out to QXC and Artosis! Two great players everyone should watch! Feel free to check out these two links for Artosis Vods, and QXC Twitter.
ArtosisTV
QXC Twitter!

*New* Also for more Guides, Vods, and Replays of Myself, QXC and others please check out Root Gaming's New Website! I will post the link here whenever it will be up! Look for it this weekend!

*New* Until this is up, I will link you to IccupTv's Ustream account where you can find Vods of myself and other good Z's who implement some of the things I've talked about in my guides.
Iccup VOD's HuK v Sheth, Morrow v Sheth


*New* One Last thing... as I keep writing lol, I'm a coach for Gosucoaching.com so if your interested in lessons please check out the website! Both myself and Machine would love to help you! GosuCoaching!
Last edit: 2010-07-25 09:08:28
Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
Old Post

 
 Saracen   United States. June 29 2010 05:10. Posts 5127
Profile Blog # 
I still have to read it, but thanks for posting this! Definitely refreshing to see this with the current trend of SC2 threads.
Old Post

 
 qxc   United States. June 29 2010 05:11. Posts 446
Profile Blog # 
Some strategic use of bold / more spaces / italics / different size fonts (is that possible) would definitely make it more readable.

Looks good though. Keep it up Sheth. You're da man
Last edit: 2010-06-29 06:05:31
qxc.coaching@gmail.com for information on coaching
Old Post

 
 Numy   South Africa. June 29 2010 05:14. Posts 7383
Profile Blog # 
Thanks for the great post. Since I never saw this covered I was wondering what the signs are for a stargate/void ray rush? Do you base this one feel and just get a 3rd queen really fast? Or are there some signs in the protoss play that he could be hiding a hidden stargate. Before the beta was down I had been doing a very early sac ovie but I'm starting to think that isn't the right way.
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 Alou   United States. June 29 2010 05:14. Posts 3747
Profile Blog # 
As I might be facing you in the second round of a tournament Sheth, thank you for telling me some of your tricks

Nice thread. Always nice to see a top player share some of his thoughts on a match up.
Life is Good.
Old Post

 
 CryMore   United States. June 29 2010 05:38. Posts 492
Profile # 
Thanks Sheth, great guide. It would be great if you wrote some stuff about ZvT, as zergs tend to have different styles in this matchup; it would be interesting to see your take on this MU.
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
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 tfmdjeff   United States. June 29 2010 05:50. Posts 170
Profile # 
Hmm. I always opened roaches against toss zealot aggression and expanded once i had about 4 roaches. I don't find speedlings very viable because it's not always easy to get a good surround against zealots. Any opinions on opening roaches instead of speedlings?

The way I see it, it uses exactly the same gas as speed, and costs 450 minerals (that's including the cost of the roach warren), which seems to be about 150 minerals cheaper than lings (20 lings = 500 minerals plus 100 on the speed). But I'm not anywhere close to being a pro gamer, so I'd like to hear the opinion of one

I'd love to see how you handle ZvT, though, especially mech =]
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 OverSight   United States. June 29 2010 06:07. Posts 104
Profile # 
As I newer zerg I really appreciate threads like this. Apsects of zerg play can be quite subtle and all the more experienced advice is appreciated.
I have learned and I will thusly crush people. -Day[9]
Old Post

 
 Interfect   Canada. June 29 2010 06:13. Posts 52
Profile # 
As a toss player imma read this, find important things about what zerg players gotta do, and stop them from doing so.
Seize the day!
Old Post

  Liquid`Sheth   United States. June 29 2010 06:22. Posts 2025Profile Blog # 
First of all, thanks alot for the positive feedback.

QXC I havn't figured out how to add spaces other then line breaks, and I don't know how to change font size either. I spent a bit looking for this, but couldn't find it so if you know how please let me know!
Numy I'll add a little bit more on that here and clear it up.
Alou nps bud!
Xixecal thanks and I'm thinking about writing a guide on ZvT as well ^^
tjmdjeff I didn't cover roach builds like that against early toss aggression because I havn't done that much testing on it. I dislike the fact that roaches move so slow without creep / speed buff, but I will think about how to add in a part about that! Thanks alot for the post.
Oversight <3
Interfect Down with the Protoss....
Underneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
Old Post

 
 Bensio   United Kingdom. June 29 2010 06:33. Posts 620
Profile Blog # 
Awesome, thanks Sheth
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 danl9rm   United States. June 29 2010 06:34. Posts 2446
Profile Blog # 
Great job Sheth. I skimmed sort of quickly since most of it didn't pertain to me (it's good that lower level players can understand it). I will be reading it again when I have more time to see how you play ZvP.

You were always a nice guy online. Thanks!
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
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 Diamond   United States. June 29 2010 06:40. Posts 9014
Profile Blog # 
Man there is no better Zerg in the world to post something like this! If I wasn't a Zerg guide I'd love you even more, but as it stands you are helping the enemies of Auir which is just plain unacceptable!

Will definitely read either way though!
Last edit: 2010-06-29 06:54:13
Check out ESV TV at http://www.esvtv.com ****** TaeJa, he's pretty good.
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 brotosterone   United States. June 29 2010 06:54. Posts 260
Profile Blog # 
Great read Sheth. I want to also request your thought on ZvT, especially mech. Also, at what point do you decide to put drones back into first gas after taking them out (after you get your initial lings, natural expo, defended zealout pressure, etc.)?
Old Post

 
 FC.Strike   United States. June 29 2010 06:56. Posts 621
Profile Blog # 
That is one in depth guide, awesome work!

What are your thoughts on late game brood lords vs. ultralisks? I'm sorta liking the mobility ultras provides, but brood lords definitely feel very solid.
--------------------------> My Smiley Face Disagrees, Your Argument is Invalid -------------------------->
Old Post

 
 Fates   United States. June 29 2010 07:12. Posts 82
Profile # 
Thanks Sheth, awesome guide!

I too love getting ling speed before an expansion, it just feels like I have more options other than just worrying about protecting my base. I can harass, push, etc. based on scouting.

I would definitely love to see a ZvT guide, as I struggle against terran (especially mech) the most.
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 monkh   United Kingdom. June 29 2010 07:15. Posts 491
Profile Blog # 
Really good guide, is there any replay you would recommend to supplement this?
Daeden.620
Old Post

 
 Interfect   Canada. June 29 2010 07:43. Posts 52
Profile # 
It might also be important to note that you shouldn't try to engage zealots with zerglings when the zealots are at a narrow ramp and that the queen shouldn't get off the creep so it can always run back and spit in time. As well to keep the zerglings in place so one or two zerglings don't suddenly aggro the zealots and die. For the newer players ya know. Really nice guide though.

Oh and btw, what do you think about doing the double extractor trick compared to just doing the extractor trick once?
When i play zerg (usually 2v2) i go 10 double extractor, 8 drone, 9 drone, 12 overlord and either 12 pool, or make 2 more drones then pool after overlord is done?

Still... PROTOSS FTW!!!!
Seize the day!
Old Post

 
 ROOTCatZ   Peru. June 29 2010 07:43. Posts 1004
Profile Blog # 
amazing guide shawny, great job <3

Pizza-Zerg for life!
www.root-gaming.com
Old Post

 
 Xapti   Canada. June 29 2010 07:47. Posts 2182
Profile # 
I didn't read it all because there was a lot to read, but it looks like the only thing you recommended was a 13pool 13 gas opening?
Versus protoss that sounds kinda stupid. This isn't like SC1 where protoss will always be FEing and speedlings can deal with it. This also isn't SC1 where lings aren't really faster than probes. Those two reasons were good for occasionally doing something like a 12 pool gas in SC1.

For SC2, things are quite different, and getting an early gas and (slightly) early pool like that is going to throw oneself behind on minerals
When you get earlier gas and pool, it results in later hatch and economy, resulting in protoss being able to do things like 1 or 2 gate expand (not like a FE though), or just a more effective timed push (4 gate or robo)

I prefer a more traditional oriented build (if you can call any build traditional) 14 pool 15 hatch on close maps, or 15 pool 15 hatch on futher ones, THEN go queen double gas 3 lings cancel 1 gas, then overlord. In fact getting 6 lings is generally unnecessary, and one can just 1-2 extra drones assuming he isn't being offensive. I consider this build more advanced though, since it takes advantage of using hatchery's health as a buffer to get a force, requires drone micro and/or hidden drones to build a hatchery, and reacts to the opponent rather early on. For lower level players, a 13 pool 13 gas seems much more proper/safe, although even then, I'd probably just recommend something like a 13 pool 18-20 hatch then gas instead. I find getting gas before an expo is kinda unnecessary in ZvP, because roaches suck, lings are already pretty fast, and lair takes too much time and money and gas to go for (considering the upgrades one needs to get after the lair). The exception would be doing a 1-base (mostly all-in) build, such as lair tech roach push (kulas ravine, inceneration zone, blistering sands, and potentially scrap station) which is what I might try if there's two gates or a forge outside.
Last edit: 2010-06-29 08:02:11
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
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