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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
What do you think about unbuildable terrain?
I'm currently trying to convert Grand Line for SC2 and don't know whether i should keep the area with unbuildable terrain or not. In SC2 this has a huger impact on the gameplay. Especially for zerg (creep). So what do you think about this?
And there is a WIP Screenshot of GL. Orange = unbuildable = usefull?
Poll: Unbuildable terrain usefull in SC2?Yay (50) 62% Nay (31) 38% 81 total votes Your vote: Unbuildable terrain usefull in SC2? (Vote): Yay (Vote): Nay
Note: You CAN'T build creep tumors in the orange are but you CAN use the ability of the overlords to deploy creep temporary.
Poll: Should i keep the unbuildable area from Grand Line in my SC2 version?Nay (31) 53% Yay (28) 47% 59 total votes Your vote: Should i keep the unbuildable area from Grand Line in my SC2 version? (Vote): Yay (Vote): Nay
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Unbuildible terran played a pretty big role in sc1, i dont see any in sc2.
Nice map
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10387 Posts
Can you spread creep on unbuildable terrain?
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If it stops creep tumors but doesn't stop overlord creep then it could work, otherwise it won't work.
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I think those areas should stay building free, but I still feel creep should be able to be spread on them. I'm pretty sure it's possible in the editor to allow just creep tumours to be built (might need to modify units.)
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On July 22 2010 20:50 Sputty wrote: If it stops creep tumors but doesn't stop overlord creep then it could work, otherwise it won't work. Because of the Zergs need for mobility, they really need some other boost if you take away the use of creep, otherwise it's just a complete cripple to a race who already struggels to find their advantage, the mobility.
Edit: And by the quote i agree with Sputty, this in that case could work.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
It works like Sputty mentioned. I won't edit the unit creep tumor because this would make this melee map into a custom map (would give zerg an advantage over T and P at those areas).
//edit Once you reach the mid (with ovis dropping creep) you can once again place tumors. This would make the Grand Line in the mid of the map a speedway ^^
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hmm what if you left sporadic 1x1 squares open for creep tumors? this way zerg can still spread creep while the unbuildable terrain fulfills its purpose
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On July 22 2010 21:13 Win.win wrote: hmm what if you left sporadic 1x1 squares open for creep tumors? this way zerg can still spread creep while the unbuildable terrain fulfills its purpose
This is the correct way to do it, many BW maps did the same thing...leaving little buildable areas around where T could fit a few turrets..
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Ok, so i gonna make some holes into the area (some 1x1 and some 2x2).
//edit Unbuildable area on the right side with spots for creep tumors and rocket towers / pylons (no 3x3 so don't expect to see bunkers in that area).
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On July 22 2010 21:24 dezi wrote: Ok, so i gonna make some holes into the area (some 1x1 and some 2x2).
//edit Unbuildable area on the right side with spots for creep tumors and rocket towers / pylons (no 3x3 so don't expect to see bunkers in that area). Then i have no problem at all with the unbuildable terrain. Even if Protoss often like placing Pylons as they push, there should be enough space for this. As long as there isn't to many of those buildable boxes, because then it drops it's purpose. Except that you don't need to worry about a Planetary Fortress rush or maby a Hatchery rush, but then who does...
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
12 boxes for rocket towers and many 1x1 boxes for tumors. hope that's not to much.
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so your unbuildable terrain is useless now. Or you make it totally unbuildable or totally buildable
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On July 22 2010 21:54 ProTosS4EveR wrote: so your unbuildable terrain is useless now. Or you make it totally unbuildable or totally buildable Did you ever play on Medusa?
I think partially build-able is the best option, but we would need to play alot of games on it to really find out.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
Mh, could tune down the 2x2 boxes to 4 per area (8 on the whole map) and also remove the 1x1 boxes connecting north and south (forcing you to place creep at the mid).
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I don't know how balance fully unbuildable would be. So much has changed in SC2 interracially (mmm sexy) because of Pylons providing warp-in, the (almost) necessity of creep spreading, the power of nydus (still underused but this will change), etc.
Unbuildable terrain was required in some SC1 maps to give racial balance, but with all the differences in SC2 I feel it is unclear how balanced unbuildable terrain would be. It is actually a subject I had not really considered for SC2, but now I am interested to see how it plays out.
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part of the reason for unbuildable terrain in sc1 was to prevent turrets (and i suppose sunkens/cannons as well) so i don't think you should leave 2x2 squares open. creep tumors are a whole new dynamic in sc2 so it's up for debate, but i think leaving only 1x1 open for creep tumors makes the most sense in terms of balance. this way zerg gets the creep that they need for mobility, and yet they can't build proxy defensive structures just like the other 2 races.
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On July 22 2010 21:54 ProTosS4EveR wrote: so your unbuildable terrain is useless now. Or you make it totally unbuildable or totally buildable I would say it's a little bit to buildable, but this is fair. Zerg needs creep for mobility, but then so does Protoss in for of Pylons to warp in. And also Terran in some cases, because they rely on defense so much more. But to make some less 2x2 boxes and the problem is solved for me
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
There are now only 2 2x2 boxes per unbuildable area. I also removed the 1x1 boxes around the small area between north and south. So you need some ovis to bridge the area to drop a new tumor there.
Also added a special texture at those 2x2 boxes, so it's easier to notice them. + Show Spoiler [Pictures] +
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On July 22 2010 21:52 dezi wrote:12 boxes for rocket towers and many 1x1 boxes for tumors. hope that's not to much. Make this a full-blown checkerboard. If you leave little holes like this, zergs have to scan around with their mouse to find a hole to place the creep tumor. After spending about five seconds trying to do this, they're going to give up on it... and probably not think twice about ever playing the map again.
I've used the technique I'm describing here on Fighting Spirit and Impervious, and Dyren set up the same thing on Match Point.
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