| zzaaxxsscd United States. October 29 2010 22:03. Posts 626 | Profile Blog # |
Any idea if this moving average is only based on X number of games, or if it has a time component too?
An extreme case for example -- if you let a high diamond player use a 500W/500L silver account (i.e. solid silver), would the diamond player be able to get the account into diamond by massing 20-30 games in a day or two, or would he need to win a couple of games a day for a week or month?
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| Tomo009 Australia. October 29 2010 22:42. Posts 96 | Profile # |
On October 29 2010 22:03 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
Any idea if this moving average is only based on X number of games, or if it has a time component too?
An extreme case for example -- if you let a high diamond player use a 500W/500L silver account (i.e. solid silver), would the diamond player be able to get the account into diamond by massing 20-30 games in a day or two, or would he need to win a couple of games a day for a week or month?
I reallllly hope it is based on a smallish number of games or i'm gonna be stuck in bronze forever. |
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 Excalibur_Z United States. October 30 2010 00:15. Posts 10333 | Profile # |
On October 29 2010 22:03 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
Any idea if this moving average is only based on X number of games, or if it has a time component too?
An extreme case for example -- if you let a high diamond player use a 500W/500L silver account (i.e. solid silver), would the diamond player be able to get the account into diamond by massing 20-30 games in a day or two, or would he need to win a couple of games a day for a week or month?
It has to be just games played, otherwise it would be biased one way or the other toward or against people who don't have the opportunity to play often. |
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| Excalibur_Z United States. October 30 2010 00:21. Posts 10333 | Profile # |
On October 29 2010 17:43 Micksterzone wrote:
Show nested quote +On October 25 2010 15:57 Slaytesics wrote:
What would to formula be for plotting the equation to determine MMR? I am having trouble trying to plot mine. I know my formula is somewhat like
12*(187 - 182) - sigma
Though, I am wondering would this formula work for calculating MMR?
G = games played
Gl (the l is notation, no effect on formula) games lost
O(sigma) = Formula for sigma addition or reduction based upon your opponents sigma and matchmaking ranking
r = rate at which bonus pool is gained
a = amount gained per time constant in bonus pool (IF APPLIED TO YOUR MATCHMAKING POINTS)
m = Your match making points (the ones visible for ladder)
So the formula would work something like this
(G - Gl)*12 = m - ra = matchmaking ranking - sigma
Then to graph this
y = matchmaking ranking - sigma
x = O(your sigma)
If we apply this to an equation (of which we must use the opposite derivative of matchmaking ranking - sigma)
This should two dimensionally determine your MMR, along with anyone with either less games, lower matchmaking ranking (with possible lower sigmas).
I'm wondering, how do u know you sigma? as without knowing it, you cannot know ur approx. MMR  ive been stuck at top of the leage for the last 20 games and want a promotion  i wanna know if its coz my MMR is bad, or if im close....... or what :D
Yeah, you don't really know what your sigma is. We did hear that sigma stays relatively large, too large to be used as a confidence factor for promotion. That was when it was confirmed that sigma did not play a direct role in promotion.Last edit: 2010-11-03 16:05:47 |
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| zyk November 01 2010 18:48. Posts 7 | Profile # |
Hey great post, thanx.
I wanted to share my latest experience (in 4v4):
- I was promoted twice in the first 22 games (from bronze to gold).
- I was promoted from gold to diamond without passing through platinum.
I went 0-5 in the "qualification games" (bronze league) and now i'm 20-15 (promoted to diamond just now).
Just a little more information... |
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 Heyoka Administrator November 03 2010 14:06. | Profile Blog # |
I started laddering some time last week. I went 5-0 in my placements ~2 months ago, against something like silver silver gold plat plat (not totally sure, not sure how accurate looking at their profiles is at this point). 5-0 into plat.
Here is a spreadsheet with my opponent's info. I have usernames and map recorded as well if you also want those. I got promoted to diamond after the last game there. I kept about 80% of my points when promoted (from 314 to 250).
My other teams are: 2 plat 2v2s (8-4, 9-5), 1 bronze 3v3 (5-2) 1 plat 3v3 (5-0), and about 10 4v4s (split between diamond plat and silver - about 150 games between them). Tell me if you want any more info!Last edit: 2010-11-03 14:07:59 |
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| vanick United States. November 03 2010 16:02. Posts 53 | Profile # |
On October 29 2010 22:03 zzaaxxsscd wrote:
Any idea if this moving average is only based on X number of games, or if it has a time component too?
An extreme case for example -- if you let a high diamond player use a 500W/500L silver account (i.e. solid silver), would the diamond player be able to get the account into diamond by massing 20-30 games in a day or two, or would he need to win a couple of games a day for a week or month?
We don't know exactly how the moving average is computed. We do know your more recent games count more than your older ones. I would expect that it only looks at the last N games, where N is some reasonable number (so if you were 500/500 it wouldn't really work against you if you started playing at diamond level). |
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| ribboo Sweden. November 06 2010 10:30. Posts 1840 | Profile # |
Gotta say, after going from "high" plat, to "mid" diamond, I've realized how little points really matter. People love to say they're a 800+, 1300+, 1500+ diamond player. Well, I was matched up by everything from 600-1600 diamond players before promotion and pretty much won/lost against both high and low players.
Blizzard should show MMR
Is there actually a point where points stabilize? They're obviously not very reliable at 1500~ diamond. Is it better at 1,7-1,8k? 2k? Or should you really never mention your points, cuz they don't really matter?Last edit: 2010-11-06 10:32:09 |
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| Excalibur_Z United States. November 06 2010 15:44. Posts 10333 | Profile # |
On November 06 2010 10:30 ribboo wrote:Gotta say, after going from "high" plat, to "mid" diamond, I've realized how little points really matter. People love to say they're a 800+, 1300+, 1500+ diamond player. Well, I was matched up by everything from 600-1600 diamond players before promotion and pretty much won/lost against both high and low players. Blizzard should show MMR Is there actually a point where points stabilize? They're obviously not very reliable at 1500~ diamond. Is it better at 1,7-1,8k? 2k? Or should you really never mention your points, cuz they don't really matter?
I was trying to think of situations where they would matter, but I'm really falling short here.
See a guy at 500 Diamond? Maybe he has 1000 bonus pool left over. If he's used all his bonus pool, maybe he got promoted from a lower league and lost a lot of points during the promotion. Maybe he's just that bad (however, win ratio should corroborate this).
Generally speaking, though, because the max total bonus pool increases at a steady rate, points beyond that level are harder to come by so although you may not stabilize, you would at least slow your rise in points. For example, if the bonus pool total is 1300 and you have over 1300, you know that at the very least you're keeping up. Players in the top top top end who have 2700+ points you would expect to be quite good because that's 1400+ points that they've earned beyond the bonus pool max. |
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| zerglingsfolife United States. November 06 2010 15:51. Posts 1694 | Profile Blog # |
| I have no idea wtf is up with ladder. I get matched up by a guy with 1800 points. I have 1100. The game decides we are even? wtf? I am like .500 and he was like 30 games above 500. I have no idea how our MMRs could be equal. |
| | Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. |  |
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| Matrim United Kingdom. November 09 2010 18:09. Posts 16 | Profile # |
| He could have had a 60 games above 500 then had a 40 game losing streak against opponents a lot weaker than himself. |
| | But one also finds in the human heart a depraved taste for equality, which impels the weak to want to bring the strong down to their level, and which reduces men to preferring equality in servitude to inequality in freedom |
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| Mitchlew Australia. November 10 2010 11:59. Posts 426 | Profile # |
| So since I am in silver league and have been beating diamond players does that mean the there is too much of a gap between the leagues and I'll be stuck in silver because of this bug? A friends tells me I should start throwing games to be able to get a promotion. Whats going on? |
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| Karthane United States. November 10 2010 12:02. Posts 1172 | Profile # |
On November 10 2010 11:59 Mitchlew wrote:
So since I am in silver league and have been beating diamond players does that mean the there is too much of a gap between the leagues and I'll be stuck in silver because of this bug? A friends tells me I should start throwing games to be able to get a promotion. Whats going on?
From what i understand you should just keep playing. You will eventually hit a wall and when that happens the system will place you where it sees fit, which by the looks of it seems to be diamond. |
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| HungShark United States. November 10 2010 12:39. Posts 134 | Profile # |
I'm curious as to how exactly the promotion mechanics work. As mentioned in the OP, my MMR has to maintain itself in the higher league to be promoted. I believe it was also mentioned at one point or another that the system re-evaluates a player after X number of games. Additionally there was mention of a bug.
After being number one in my platinum division for nearly a month (maintaining an average of 51%+ win ratio against Diamond players) I was finally promoted to Diamond today. After I got over the initial shock of it, I looked at the other players in my division. ALL of them were also just promoted to Diamond. My ENTIRE division is 100% full of recently promoted Diamonders. This also occurred after the 1.13 patch.
I'm assuming that either the "bug" has finally been fixed, or Blizzard did a massive coupe to promote higher-level Platinum players to Diamond. |
| | Die again in good health! |
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| Mitchlew Australia. November 10 2010 13:14. Posts 426 | Profile # |
| Well just played 3 more games, lost to 2 diamonds and just beat a diamond and was promoted from silver to platinum. Now have my eyes on the big one :D |
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| a176 Canada. November 13 2010 15:27. Posts 5683 | Profile Blog # |
I've read through the various threads here on TL but I'm thinking I've missed something as I don't quite understand how the MMR system is working for team leagues. I've been treading through 4v4 random for a while now, trying to get from platinum into diamond. I've been #1 for a little while now and am approaching 60% winrate, but I don't get how the system rates you and rewards you when you're playing in a game with all different kinds of MMR-rated players. Its a bit frustrating because I got into diamond in 1v1 and 3v3 (dont play 2v2) pretty quickly, but seem to be stuck in platinum for 4v4.
Any insight is appreciated. |
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| Excalibur_Z United States. November 13 2010 15:56. Posts 10333 | Profile # |
On November 13 2010 15:27 a176 wrote:
I've read through the various threads here on TL but I'm thinking I've missed something as I don't quite understand how the MMR system is working for team leagues. I've been treading through 4v4 random for a while now, trying to get from platinum into diamond. I've been #1 for a little while now and am approaching 60% winrate, but I don't get how the system rates you and rewards you when you're playing in a game with all different kinds of MMR-rated players. Its a bit frustrating because I got into diamond in 1v1 and 3v3 (dont play 2v2) pretty quickly, but seem to be stuck in platinum for 4v4.
Any insight is appreciated.
We think it just averages the MMRs of each player on the random team to get the team's MMR. It's unclear whether each player receives MMR gains or losses based on their individual MMR or averaged MMR for the team versus the opposing team's MMR (my guess would be the latter). Of course, the system is basically a black box already for arranged teams and solo play, and adding a random team layer to that is like putting that black box inside another black box.
Arranged teams, of course, work just the same as solo play: each team has a separate MMR. |
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| a176 Canada. November 14 2010 10:47. Posts 5683 | Profile Blog # |
On November 13 2010 15:56 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:27 a176 wrote:
I've read through the various threads here on TL but I'm thinking I've missed something as I don't quite understand how the MMR system is working for team leagues. I've been treading through 4v4 random for a while now, trying to get from platinum into diamond. I've been #1 for a little while now and am approaching 60% winrate, but I don't get how the system rates you and rewards you when you're playing in a game with all different kinds of MMR-rated players. Its a bit frustrating because I got into diamond in 1v1 and 3v3 (dont play 2v2) pretty quickly, but seem to be stuck in platinum for 4v4.
Any insight is appreciated.
We think it just averages the MMRs of each player on the random team to get the team's MMR. It's unclear whether each player receives MMR gains or losses based on their individual MMR or averaged MMR for the team versus the opposing team's MMR (my guess would be the latter). Of course, the system is basically a black box already for arranged teams and solo play, and adding a random team layer to that is like putting that black box inside another black box. Arranged teams, of course, work just the same as solo play: each team has a separate MMR.
Though so. Basically it becomes infinitely harder to increase MMR because of the way bnet [seemingly] matches you with players of all different mmrs. Great :| |
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| wunil United States. November 15 2010 06:44. Posts 9 | Profile # |
From what I understand, this system is actually pretty good. It pairs you against people of higher MMR and league after you are getting above 50% win ratio. If you keep beating those players with higher MMR the system keeps pairing you with people of higher MMR (or your MMR increases no ones sure) as you keep winning until you start winning at a 50% win ratio against those players with a higher MMR. Then whatever MMR you have when you start winning at 50% it then decides which league to dump you in.
So, say a Silver player has 1000 MMR, he starts winning a bunch and starts playing against players with 1500 MMR. then eventually against players with 2000 MMR and then against 2500 MMR players he wins 50% of the time and it just happens that the Gold league's threshold is around 2400. Then the system will match him against a Silver player (Or a player above your league) and if he wins then the system is then confident and his MMR will rise to that a appropriate level. This is my theory on the promotion system anyways. (the numbers are for example purposes)Last edit: 2010-11-20 06:57:13 |
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| neo_rtr Sweden. November 17 2010 05:35. Posts 69 | Profile # |
Does it make any difference if you have selected 3maps that are not to be "included as often" as the other ones.
Forgot to mention this. I play toss.
If i play in the morning (EU players GMT hours) then i go for multiple wins (PvP PvZ PvZ)
If i play after 9pm ->1am i go for more PvZ (more losses) and PvT PvP is about 50%-50% or 60% wins 40% loss. Most of the time will get matched Vs Z i believe
I am still in Bronze with 1,898 points. Won 380, lost 349 it says on the statsLast edit: 2010-11-17 05:50:20 |
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