Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 2178

On April 23 2012 22:38 bbm wrote:

Agreed. At least with the first two sentences, before you turned into a collosal dick. The games were better, the first person was great, as was the analyst discussion cool. But that's about it. The atmosphere was muted and storylines almost non-existant (until the finals obv).

During the FIFA 2002 world cup, two storylines riveted me. One was my home country, the other was that of Senegal. A team that had never qualified before, who beat reigning champions France in their first match, then tied with Denmark and Uraguay to come second in their group, and then beat Sweden in the Ro16.
Underdogs and home pride. It makes a big difference to the enjoyment you can get out of a tournament. Someone to root for, someone to cheer for. DRG's my favourite player out of the 8 there and I was cheering for him in this tournament, but I'd always cheer for demuslim or bling over him. I WANT an upset, whether it's a big one like scarlett or a relatively lesser one (not taking away from them but they're already great) like Ret > Genius or Nerchio > Hyun.

There's continual complaints about "useless games", especially since Naniwa's blizz cup scandal. MLG doing round robin, fine, but playing all 3 games even if a winner is already decided? IMO round robin lacks suspense, at least before it gets to the last few matches, and then it can be very confusing (such as, I believe, drg v parting being eliminated was decided after drg had won his last series, but not before his last game? wat). I have nothing invested in those games. I'm hesitant to complain too much about round robin, since having more games played with less players is only a good thing though.

DH wasn't a perfect event (whole first day was pretty retarded), but it was a bigger one, a more hyped one, and arguably a better one.

tl;dr: The games were better, the actual event wasn't. Lack of storylines and suspense lead to me feeling less invested in the results of the games. If I was watching the vods I'd much prefer the MLG ones, but I wasn't. I was watching entire tournaments.

edit: Trimmed it up a bit because I rambled like fuck.

On April 23 2012 22:38 bbm wrote:

Agreed. At least with the first two sentences, before you turned into a collosal dick. The games were better, the first person was great, as was the analyst discussion cool. But that's about it. The atmosphere was muted and storylines almost non-existant (until the finals obv).

During the FIFA 2002 world cup, two storylines riveted me. One was my home country, the other was that of Senegal. A team that had never qualified before, who beat reigning champions France in their first match, then tied with Denmark and Uraguay to come second in their group, and then beat Sweden in the Ro16.
Underdogs and home pride. It makes a big difference to the enjoyment you can get out of a tournament. Someone to root for, someone to cheer for. DRG's my favourite player out of the 8 there and I was cheering for him in this tournament, but I'd always cheer for demuslim or bling over him. I WANT an upset, whether it's a big one like scarlett or a relatively lesser one (not taking away from them but they're already great) like Ret > Genius or Nerchio > Hyun.

There's continual complaints about "useless games", especially since Naniwa's blizz cup scandal. MLG doing round robin, fine, but playing all 3 games even if a winner is already decided? IMO round robin lacks suspense, at least before it gets to the last few matches, and then it can be very confusing (such as, I believe, drg v parting being eliminated was decided after drg had won his last series, but not before his last game? wat). I have nothing invested in those games. I'm hesitant to complain too much about round robin, since having more games played with less players is only a good thing though.

DH wasn't a perfect event (whole first day was pretty retarded), but it was a bigger one, a more hyped one, and arguably a better one.

tl;dr: The games were better, the actual event wasn't. Lack of storylines and suspense lead to me feeling less invested in the results of the games. If I was watching the vods I'd much prefer the MLG ones, but I wasn't. I was watching entire tournaments.

edit: Trimmed it up a bit because I rambled like fuck.

On April 23 2012 22:59 hugman wrote:


I understand your perspective, but you're in a very small minority. Most people don't have the time or the talent to learn the game well enough to really appreciate the subtleties of a certain build. It's really condescending to imply that you have to be a pro player to be a fan of SC2. The people who paid 30$ for DH tickets aren't fans of SC2? Not only is it condescending, it's also wrong.

No, I'm not good enough at SC2 to typically enjoy watching a VOD without commentary and without knowing who the players are, just watching the game. There's more that goes into creating an enjoyable viewer experience than just the most minor details that make some players stand out to you. Good casters add to the enjoyment, a good atmosphere at a live event adds to the enjoyment and so does a good storyline (Korean vs foreigner in his home town). There's nothing wrong with that and it also doesn't mean that the quality of play is irrelevant. It's obvious that the starting field at DH was a lot weaker than at MLG and that was a minus for DH, the other parts made up for it though. I don't think it was the best event ever, mostly because of the players and the games, but it was still more enjoyable for me than MLG.

If I go see a live music performance and there's a good atmosphere then I'm going to have a much better time than I would listening to a technically more proficient performance at home on my stereo, even if it's an instrument that I play well enough to appreciate the difference. It's about having an experience, not just being a robot looking at someone's performance. Music isn't just about technique and SC2 is entertainment just as much as it is a game about minor details.

On April 24 2012 02:51 zefreak wrote:


Do you guys not even bother reading Tyler's post? You say that he is being condescending and that everyone is as big a fan of SC2 as he is. And then you ramble off a list of things that make Dreamhack the better tournament, none of which have anything to do with SC2.

1.Production - awesome for showing your family that e-sports is big and professional and legitimate. Not actually very important to people that don't have anything to prove.

2. Storyline - important to most people, considering that most people's appreciation of high level starcraft is non-existent. Storylines are what I tell my friends who don't play the game to get them hyped and interested. For someone with Tyler's understanding of the game, the foreigner/korean storyline is of minimal importance. It's all flash and filler. Starcraft is almost peripheral to people that care about storyline as extremely important. It could be any competition with an underdog story and you guys would lap it up.

3. Crowd/audience/cheering - Another distraction, same as above.

All of these things do add to an experience that most people will enjoy, there is no doubt about that. My point is not that these things are bad or anything of the sort. My point is that some people are fans of the game, while others are fans of the drama, emotion and spectacle. Sure, they probably like the game a bit but they are more drawn towards the players, personalities and underdog storylines.

Some people are passionate about the game itself, and want to see the highest level of play without distractions. Accept that it is the case. It's not 'wrong' to enjoy the peripheral aspects of competitive starcraft. But accept it for what it is.

On April 24 2012 00:31 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:


Totally agree. Tyler's sarcastic comments are just showing off his elitism. I don't blame him, really. It's a product of the direct communication between fans and pros e-sports has grown up with. The only reason you don't see it rear its ugly head in the context of other sports is because they lack this communication.

On April 24 2012 03:09 zefreak wrote:


He sounds elitist because he actually is elite compared to you and the vast majority of casual starcraft spectators. When you have tons of experience and knowledge about something, you tend to have different standards. There are many music fans that go to concerts and are disappointed if the band doesn't have an energetic live show banging on trash cans or running around like idiots. It could be Paul Gilbert shredding for his life but if that's all there is to it then it will only satisfy diehard music/guitar fans.

Dreamhack had so much that would entertain people who have never seen Starcraft. I took a friend who has never played to IPL4 and he had a blast. I would not make him watch MLG Arena because it's not that kind of event. All it had was SC2. Which Tyler is a fan of. That's all it needs for some people. For others, it's not enough.

On April 24 2012 03:02 Bashion wrote:
I paid for MLG but i spent my time watching DH, mostly. You can call me crazy or whatever, but i simply didn't enjoy this MLG event.

People are complaining about the first day of DH, but MLG's was also bad, especially if your favorite players are Protoss.

I had more fun listening to Wolf/dApollo/Incontrol than Tastosis. Even tho Grubby made MLG way better, i dont know, i didnt enjoy it.

On April 24 2012 03:15 Daray wrote:


Same for me. Bought MLG pass and on sunday i only watched the finals. I enjoyed Dreamhack a lot more. Having watched so much sc2 the hype and energy of Dreamhack felt fresh and exciting. Probably not going to prioritize watching those MLG Arenas in the future, there's just so much sc2 available all day every day that a little more of the same is just not worth my time. I didn't watch DH day1 so can't comment on that.

Apollo and Wolf topping the MLG cast imo. Grubby was really good, Tasteless doesn't know anything anymore and often breaks the rhytm of the cast, Artosis imo the best caster with Apollo and Wheat is pretty good when you pair him with an analytical(?) dude like Grubby etc.

On April 24 2012 02:51 zefreak wrote:

Do you guys not even bother reading Tyler's post? You say that he is being condescending and that everyone is as big a fan of SC2 as he is. And then you ramble off a list of things that make Dreamhack the better tournament, none of which have anything to do with SC2.

1.Production - awesome for showing your family that e-sports is big and professional and legitimate. Not actually very important to people that don't have anything to prove.

2. Storyline - important to most people, considering that most people's appreciation of high level starcraft is non-existent. Storylines are what I tell my friends who don't play the game to get them hyped and interested. For someone with Tyler's understanding of the game, the foreigner/korean storyline is of minimal importance. It's all flash and filler. Starcraft is almost peripheral to people that care about storyline as extremely important. It could be any competition with an underdog story and you guys would lap it up.

3. Crowd/audience/cheering - Another distraction, same as above.

All of these things do add to an experience that most people will enjoy, there is no doubt about that. My point is not that these things are bad or anything of the sort. My point is that some people are fans of the game, while others are fans of the drama, emotion and spectacle. Sure, they probably like the game a bit but they are more drawn towards the players, personalities and underdog storylines.

Some people are passionate about the game itself, and want to see the highest level of play without distractions. Accept that it is the case. It's not 'wrong' to enjoy the peripheral aspects of competitive starcraft. But accept it for what it is.

On April 24 2012 03:15 Daray wrote:


Same for me. Bought MLG pass and on sunday i only watched the finals. I enjoyed Dreamhack a lot more. Having watched so much sc2 the hype and energy of Dreamhack felt fresh and exciting. Probably not going to prioritize watching those MLG Arenas in the future, there's just so much sc2 available all day every day that a little more of the same is just not worth my time. I didn't watch DH day1 so can't comment on that.

Apollo and Wolf topping the MLG cast imo. Grubby was really good, Tasteless doesn't know anything anymore and often breaks the rhytm of the cast, Artosis imo the best caster with Apollo and Wheat is pretty good when you pair him with an analytical(?) dude like Grubby etc.

On April 24 2012 03:17 Technique wrote:
So you diss tasteless for not knowing anything and then you name wheat, really dude?

On April 24 2012 03:27 Kollapse wrote:


I love Tasteless so much and I enjoyed his casting this weekend as always, but sadly you are right.

His work involves SC2 and he's fully immersed in the scene, so the casting isn't bad by a long shot. But that's it. You can quickly tell he no longer plays, and almost as quickly you will realize that Tasteless knows very, very little about SC2. The contrast between Artosis and Tasteless as they cast is shocking. It's awesome to hear something new from Artosis every cast, and it's a privilege to get his insight throughout the games. Tasteless, while hilarious and usually never outright wrong, does indeed break the rhythm of the cast.

P.S. The only reason I even make this point is because Tasteless' earlier casts are fucking outstanding. His BW casting rivals that of the best casters in any medium. He is certainly still very capable.

On April 24 2012 03:27 Kollapse wrote:


I love Tasteless so much and I enjoyed his casting this weekend as always, but sadly you are right.

His work involves SC2 and he's fully immersed in the scene, so the casting isn't bad by a long shot. But that's it. You can quickly tell he no longer plays, and almost as quickly you will realize that Tasteless knows very, very little about SC2. The contrast between Artosis and Tasteless as they cast is shocking. It's awesome to hear something new from Artosis every cast, and it's a privilege to get his insight throughout the games. Tasteless, while hilarious and usually never outright wrong, does indeed break the rhythm of the cast.

P.S. The only reason I even make this point is because Tasteless' earlier casts are fucking outstanding. His BW casting rivals that of the best casters in any medium. He is certainly still very capable.

On April 24 2012 03:28 Daray wrote:


Imo Wheat knows more about the game atm than Tasteless and he does better play by play. Tasteless seems like an awesome guy but if you listen to his casting objectively it's not that good.