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Did KeSPA cancel TLO vs Nada at IEM? - Page 25

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 All
 
 Sprouter   United States. August 22 2010 19:01. Posts 915
Profile # 


26. In fact, there's no difference for them because they are going to pay GomTV the same money which they've been paying to KeSPA.
Is there a source for this? If it is the same fee, why is MBC apparently have a hard time renewing an agreement with GomTV?
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:02:36
 
Old Post

 
 CalmDown.Breathe   United States. August 22 2010 19:05. Posts 176
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 18:52 aru wrote:

Show nested quote +



Screwing over the e-sports scene is just a byproduct in their bid for control? So it basically doesn't matter who "wins", everyone else loses.


Seems like it for now, since they don't know how to handle the Starcraft scene in Korea, ever since Korean courts ruled in favor of Kespa (sort of). It doesn't seem likely that they'll keep LAN away forever (just like how it seems implausible that there would be no chat rooms forever), but until they know how to control LAN access... yeah. One way would be with their "tournament registration" function where tournament organizers submit their tournaments to Blizzard to become approved. Could see Blizzard utilizing that to enable LAN? But for now, public LAN would seem really unlikely. That and since Starcraft 2 is still pretty new, the scene is growing right now, so the lack of LAN doesn't seem to be an immediate concern for them.
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  aimaimaim   Philippines. August 22 2010 19:14. Posts 2166Profile Blog # 

On August 22 2010 19:05 CalmDown.Breathe wrote:

Show nested quote +



Seems like it for now, since they don't know how to handle the Starcraft scene in Korea, ever since Korean courts ruled in favor of Kespa (sort of). It doesn't seem likely that they'll keep LAN away forever (just like how it seems implausible that there would be no chat rooms forever), but until they know how to control LAN access... yeah. One way would be with their "tournament registration" function where tournament organizers submit their tournaments to Blizzard to become approved. Could see Blizzard utilizing that to enable LAN? But for now, public LAN would seem really unlikely. That and since Starcraft 2 is still pretty new, the scene is growing right now, so the lack of LAN doesn't seem to be an immediate concern for them.


reply to bolded: its highly impossible IF hackers can acquire and crack this, our beloved B.net2 would be rendered useless ..

If they(blizzard) really want SC2 to grow, they should have implemented LAN. No other way.

Regarding KeSPA .. They made a dumb move .. lol
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Old Post

 
 Kyouya   Mexico. August 22 2010 19:15. Posts 318
Profile # 
Thanks for the vids, but omg what a fail, really blizzard just put lan and everything will be better...
El infierno es vivir cada día, sin saber la razón de tu existencia.
Old Post

 
 cybrodroid   United States. August 22 2010 19:15. Posts 6
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 17:11 Milkis wrote:

Show nested quote +



I'm not the biggest fan of KeSPA but I honestly don't think that timeline series is very objective. It's meant to make you upset. Not many netizens support KeSPA (who would, really), but a lot of them are really simplified points that IMO miss a lot of the key details.


Like...What details do they miss? I'm sure many of us would like to hear other sides of this story.
can't sleep, clown'll eat me
Old Post

 
 Aetherial   Australia. August 22 2010 19:15. Posts 907
Profile # 
kespa... lol
Old Post

  McDonalds   Liechtenstein. August 22 2010 19:17. Posts 2244Profile # 

On August 22 2010 17:33 Devolved wrote:
When you think about it, KESPA is probably the reason there's no LAN. Blizz is forced to run tournaments and all multiplayer games for SC2 through b.net, otherwise, KESPA could just steal Blizzard's Intellectual Property like they did with SC:BW and create a small fortune from it without including Blizzard.

Last I checked Kespa was a non-profit organization? Which I assume means they function like a co-op. And they aren't selling t-shirts with giant mutalisk sprites on them anyway. This whole intellectual property thing is a legal manoeuvre. Blizzard sold the rights to Gretech because Gretech would agree to their terms, but the main reason was obviously that any legal challenge from Kespa after that point would be a contest between two Korean companies, not a Korean company and a foreign one.

So yeah, it's about control, but the real issue is branding. Blizzard don't like the fact that the premiere Starcraft event is the "OGN Starleague" or whatever. They want it to be the "Activision Blizzard Starcraft Invitational". They want their company logo on the desk and in the background.

(Man, the WCG theme song is so bad.)
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:18:50
High five :---)
Old Post

 
 cybrodroid   United States. August 22 2010 19:18. Posts 6
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 17:17 Scarecrow wrote:

Show nested quote +


All the problems like power outage still have potential to happen in SC2. The no lan support just adds one more thing that can go wrong plus unnecessary latency.
The Kespa progamers are a result of the team sponsors taking a risk and investing in esports. The real capital is the players, not the 10 year old game. Why should they allow promoters of another game to profit off what they have built to the detriment of BW?

The gomtv fiasco was a similar issue, the homegrown stars of starcraft generating revenue and advertising for blizzard and gom without any compensation to the companies that created the scene. It even hurt the quality of the other leagues as it added games to already intense schedules. I don't see why people can be outraged at Kespa shutting down a competition that they had no stake in, hurt their own interests (worsened player conditions) and was run using the capital they created.

Agreed with Milkis. That list is ridiculously biased, can argue pretty much every point.


If you can, then do. So far KeSPA seems like the bad guy. Don't know that they are, but so far no one with an apologist sentiment for them has offered any reasons why.

edit: left out part of my thought. Why would they not use these opportunities to further e-sports and develop relationships with those on the IP creators' good side. Which is the bigger risk?
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:28:43
can't sleep, clown'll eat me
Old Post

 
 asdfiprod   United States. August 22 2010 19:20. Posts 34
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 14:41 keV. wrote:

Show nested quote +



You are seriously delusional. They do it because their is profitable gain, by recognition or otherwise. I don't know what fantasy world you live in where companies like Samsung act on good will.




http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/goodwill.html

In business terminology, goodwill means something different than kindness of heart. It's not a fantasy world or delusion, it's big kids world.
Old Post

 
 CalmDown.Breathe   United States. August 22 2010 19:22. Posts 176
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 19:14 aimaimaim wrote:

Show nested quote +



reply to bolded: its highly impossible IF hackers can acquire and crack this, our beloved B.net2 would be rendered useless ..

If they(blizzard) really want SC2 to grow, they should have implemented LAN. No other way.

Regarding KeSPA .. They made a dumb move .. lol


It was just a hypothetical example. If Blizzard already figured it out, they would have implemented it already. Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports so they have the most to gain with E-Sport's growth and the most to lose with E-Sport's downfall so they probably know what they're doing and are contemplating every decision they make. For now though, they're concentrating on marketing and drawing in more people towards Starcraft 2. Furthering their progress / development of LAN, although great for tournaments and E-Sports, probably doesn't do much for the casual gamer (their current target audience) so their priorities are probably elsewhere right now as well.

And yeah... Kespa did make a dumb move. If they just agreed to negotiate with Blizzard, everything would have been just peachy.
Old Post

  McDonalds   Liechtenstein. August 22 2010 19:27. Posts 2244Profile # 

On August 22 2010 19:22 CalmDown.Breathe wrote:
Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports

Blizzard is a video game company. They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish.
High five :---)
Old Post

 
 CalmDown.Breathe   United States. August 22 2010 19:34. Posts 176
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 19:27 McDonalds wrote:

Show nested quote +


Blizzard is a video game company. They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish.


Which is why they'd like to have as much of an influence in e-sports as they can. Wouldn't they have loved to have Korean Pro-gamers on starcraft 2 right now? but nope, can't because of Kespa. which just goes back to how they're trying to keep control over their products now.
Old Post

 
 hacpee   United States. August 22 2010 19:43. Posts 740
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 15:03 Secret_Agent_360 wrote:
For those who are not really aware of KeSPA's business, here's the timeline of KeSPA and its major events in (South) Korea
+ Show Spoiler +




Haha that is totally inaccurate. OGN and GOM could have broadcasted starcraft bw games without going through KESPA. What Kespa wanted was money for using their teams. If OGN/MSL and GOM wanted to, they could have hosted the GSL, OSL, and MSL without the kespa teams and paid nothing.
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:43:53
 
Old Post

  aimaimaim   Philippines. August 22 2010 19:45. Posts 2166Profile Blog # 

On August 22 2010 19:22 CalmDown.Breathe wrote:

Show nested quote +



It was just a hypothetical example. If Blizzard already figured it out, they would have implemented it already. Blizzard's whole success is tied to E-Sports so they have the most to gain with E-Sport's growth and the most to lose with E-Sport's downfall so they probably know what they're doing and are contemplating every decision they make. For now though, they're concentrating on marketing and drawing in more people towards Starcraft 2. Furthering their progress / development of LAN, although great for tournaments and E-Sports, probably doesn't do much for the casual gamer (their current target audience) so their priorities are probably elsewhere right now as well.

And yeah... Kespa did make a dumb move. If they just agreed to negotiate with Blizzard, everything would have been just peachy.


what??? NO .. NO .. KeSPA deserves everything what they did for E-Sport .. with the terms being drawn by blizzard .. its fucking impossible ..

Blizzard deserves everything for creating the game .. but they never gave a rat's ass for the scene .. it was only in 2007 when activision merged with blizzard and got their eyes on the money that is korean esport ..

also, i dont believe that blizzard can handle e-sport .. take a look at WoW and WC3 .. they never made any great progress in the E-sport area, with WoW having a great number of players, it would generate a great e-sport scene and regarding WC3 .. it looks like after SC2 was announced .. they forgot WC3 altogether ..

im not a big fan of kespa but the gamble they made back in the early 2000 is worth the praise while all the other companies that SHOULD have taken care of the potential E-SPORT SCENE and declined to have anything to do with since they see it as a "waste of money" ..

regarding e-sport's growth .. WoW has the BEST chance of having an International E-Sport Scene along with DotA .. but they never gambled on it .. Blizzard instead invested on SC2 because looking at korea, they thought they could get big with it .. IDK if its gonna be big, but it really isn't living up to the Hype ..

my 2 cents

also, that list of timeline about kespa and blizzard is pretty one sided .. blizzard's terms to kespa was REALLY REALLY unreasonable .. here is the list:


1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:51:17
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
Old Post

 
 Devolved   United States. August 22 2010 19:50. Posts 2646
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 19:27 McDonalds wrote:

Show nested quote +


They use "e-sports" to promote their products and in the pond of ways to promote products this is not the biggest fish.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Just look at the sales of SC:BW in Korea and you'll see it's possibly the best way to promote your product. Blizzard didn't initially put in much effort to stop and/or control E-Sports because it was free advertising for their product.
Flash, the last BW bonjwa and first bonjwa of SC2.
Old Post

 
 jayt88   Singapore. August 22 2010 19:51. Posts 92
Profile # 
man.. why are there so many ignorant people here.
Progaming and having no life is almost synonymous. If you want to be like Flash, do you think you can do without practicing for at least half a day, its not as though Kespa forces them to practice, its the requirement of their job.
Next, it was already stated clearly that the match would only be allowed if the game wasn't streamed in Korea, and apparently it was, so I don't see why the match can't be stopped since part of the agreement was breached.

All the senseless hate on Kespa is ridiculous, think for a moment, if you were in their shoes and you're getting pushed back against the wall by Blizzard and GomTV.
Last edit: 2010-08-22 19:53:08
 
Old Post

  McDonalds   Liechtenstein. August 22 2010 19:56. Posts 2244Profile # 
I don't think it's fair to say that the situation is "because of" Kespa though. We've seen what were supposedly the terms of the contract Blizzard wanted Kespa to sign and they were almost absurd. They clearly didn't want Kespa to be involved. It was a calculated move.

But yeah, they pretty much have what they want now in the GOM broadcasts, if you've seen any of them. I just looked for a VOD a minute ago. The wallpaper in the booths all says STARCRAFT BLIZZARD STARCRAFT BLIZZARD. That's basically all that Blizzard were interested in, I think. They saw the identity of the company as more important than the identity of the contest, and Kespa disagreed.
High five :---)
Old Post

 
 Devolved   United States. August 22 2010 20:01. Posts 2646
Profile # 

On August 22 2010 19:51 jayt88 wrote:
Next, it was already stated clearly that the match would only be allowed if the game wasn't streamed in Korea, and apparently it was, so I don't see why the match can't be stopped since part of the agreement was breached.


It's completely illogical to have the terms of an agreement between two parties rely on the actions of a third party that is uncontrollable by the two parties entering the agreement (i.e. pirate streamers). If this is the way KeSPA handled negotiations with Blizzard I can see why Blizzard finally said F-it and signed a deal with GOM.
Flash, the last BW bonjwa and first bonjwa of SC2.
Old Post

  some_noob   August 22 2010 20:01. Posts 160Profile # 
I kinda understand bizzard about their NOLAN problem, it would be soo easy to crack sc2 and setup virtual lan network.

What about being able to connect with lan when logged in bnet 2.0 ?
Old Post

  junkacc   August 22 2010 20:03. Posts 99Profile # 
Blizzard will ditch SC2 esport as soon as they come out with SC3 and it won't take 10 years this time. They just want to promote whatever is their latest game and kill off the previous one. Kespa is getting in the way by creating an environment for BW's continued success. Blizzard doesn't care about e-sports. They only want to use it as a promotional tool for their games. They'll try to kill SC2 just like they're trying to kill BW now. But with organizations like KeSPA out of the way, and with complete control of every aspect of the game, the task is much easier.

These are the demands Blizzard made to KeSPA.
e스포츠협회에 따르면 블리자드는 △게임 사용기간 1년으로 제한 △스폰서십, 중계권 등 모든 수입에 대해 게임사용료 이상의 로열티 및 서브 라이선스 비용 요구 △리그 관련 모든 운영활동에 대한 사전 승인 △2차 저작물인 경기 콘텐츠에 대한 소유권 △협회에 대한 회계감사 권한 등의 무리한 요구를 해온 것으로 알려졌다.

-Contracts/Licenses on games last for at most one year (I assume renegotiation after each year).
-Royaltees and service payments on top of contract/licensing fees for all sponsorship and broadcasting.
-All league and operation activities must be vetted by Blizzard in advance.
-Copyrights on all secondary content such as match content belong to Blizzard
-Auditing rights on Kespa

Can't believe all you fanboys and blind worshipers think Blizzard has altruistic motives on this. They want to put you on the endless upgrade train; like their COD business model. But first they must kill off BW, that is their #1 obstacle atm.

Last edit: 2010-08-22 20:24:48
http://filesmelt.com/dl/1284595498849.gif
Old Post

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