| Spawkuring United States. August 28 2010 02:48. Posts 710 | Profile # |
| I'm still wondering why the marauder hasn't been nerfed yet. |
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| Alou United States. August 28 2010 02:48. Posts 3747 | Profile Blog # |
On August 28 2010 02:46 summerloud wrote:
what a fucking joke. no rauder nerf, no voidray nerf. voidrays make 3on3s and 4on4s downright silly, and rauders have been a joke ever since the beta started
and i guess zerg is allowed to FE vs toss again now
3v3 is serious business. It's insane that they didn't think of that mode in this patch. What were they thinking. |
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| koppik United States. August 28 2010 02:48. Posts 676 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:44 Meta wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 02:13 KingRajesh wrote:
Blizzard being Blizzard unfortunately, it's not the fact that siege tanks hit REALLY hard, it's the fact that you can make a line of them, and the corresponding splash damage plus them all firing at the same time destroys units. And also, what set of light, unarmored units do Zerg have to "perform better against siege tanks"? The Zergling?
Bunker build time needs to be 40 seconds IMO.
Zerglings, Marines, Hydralisks, DT's?? Are there any others? lol. Infestors?
The tank nerf really will make a BIG difference for how zealots do against tanks. It'll make a reasonable sized difference for hydralisks vs. tanks. And it'll make a small difference for the other light units.
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| licarn New Zealand. August 28 2010 02:49. Posts 17 | Profile # |
No changes to Marauders but Zealot's are being nerfed...
What are Protoss supposed to do to survive the early game now?
2-gate needs to be altered, but not like this. |
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| ltortoise August 28 2010 02:49. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:47 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 02:45 ltortoise wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:41 VirtuallyLost wrote:
Everyone know this was coming...
Another thing I'd like to mention is now that siege tanks do 35 + 15 to armored, while zerglings have 35 hp. It seems now getting a +1 Carapace upgrade is now extremely important, making tanks 2 hit zerglings. Zergs, i think, now has an opportunity to timing attack the terran, with +1 Carapace upgrade, while the terran is still researching +1 Attack for vehicles.
Expect to see terrans to rush to armory to get that +1 Vehicles upgrade in all games if they decide to go mech.
Eh...This doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. Who doesn't have marines around their tanks. So your zerglings run in with 1hp and instantly die to my marine ball?
Your marine ball now attacks some of my zerglings instead of directly killing my other shit. One or two volleys from marines is one or two volleys from my other units (Mutas/Hydras/Roaches), and that makes all the difference in some engagements.
Sure, I'll buy that. But it's a pretty tight window. If you are "going tanks" vs zerg, the +attack upgrades are pretty mandatory since they make such a huge difference. Also, don't most zergs prefer to get +attack before carapace? |
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| vyyye Sweden. August 28 2010 02:49. Posts 3905 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:48 Defrag wrote:
If im reading this correctly, big Ultralisk nerf and no proposed zerg buffs? what the hell?
Protoss and terran nerfs technically buff zerg. |
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| ZaaaaaM Netherlands. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 1702 | Profile # |
| Pretty sweet changes, but I really hoped they did something about the mechanics of tvz early game, 5 second delayed reaper won't change much- its still 20 viable BO's vs 3.. Ah well, we'll see. |
| | no dude, the question |  |
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| Aegeis United States. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 1495 | Profile Blog # |
| Can't wait for the next State of the Game podcast, would love to hear some pro insight on this. |
| | "Skills to pay the bills" - Artosis |  |
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| SichuanPanda Canada. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 1542 | Profile Blog # |
Just a little math on the Zealot change versus Zerg for everyone.
Timings:
Pylon - 25, Gateway - 65, Zealot - 38 (19 Chrono), Pool - 65, Zergling(s) - 24
Assumptions:
- Zerg is going 6/7 pool
- Protoss scouts / guesses this is coming 8 pylon
- Protoss Chronos the Zealot
Discussion
Quite simply it takes 89 seconds from the start of the Pool for the Zerg to have Zerglings built and heading to the Ps base. Assuming an 8 rather than a 9 pylon, the Protoss will take 109 seconds after the start of the first Pylon to get one Zealot out.
With a 6/7 pool it essentially goes down at the same time as the Pylon - if not earlier, the pool will also be fully complete by the time the gate finishes.
The math does not lie there will be a full TWENTY SECOND window possible in Z v P where it is literally impossible for the Protoss to have a Zealot - (and that is only assuming the P goes the fastest possible Zealot build). I fear for this match-up on short-rush distance maps.Last edit: 2010-08-28 02:51:12 |
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| Dromar United States. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 1777 | Profile Blog # |
On August 28 2010 02:11 ]Grey[ wrote:
These all seem like pretty solid changes. Their reasoning for the zealot change is a bit odd though. Were proxy gateways particularly hard to hold off as Terran? They seemed pretty ineffective against Zerg, from my experience, at least.
I feel the same way. I've held off in-base proxy 2 gate with 15pool and thought "Wow that was easy. Proxy gates are horrible in this game." I dunno maybe my opponents messed up somehow in those games. Then again, maybe it's harder to hold for Terran. |
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| shindigs United States. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 4274 | Profile Blog # |
| The only change that I'm confused about is the zealot build time increase. It seems that the change is just meant to allow for more fast expand options and to lower super cheesy aggression. However, I'll give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt in that they tested the build time and zealots were able to pop out to stop any significant cheeses before warp gate research is completed. |
| | Twitter: @shindags || Collegiate Starleague www.cstarleague.com || Sponsored by #ESPORTSPROBLEMS || twitch.tv/shindigs |  |
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| bobsc2 August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 8 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:42 rastaban wrote:
Wow, the change to tanks really makes banelings so much better against the Tank, Marine combo.
Rastaban, are you serious?
Side note: Can someone explain to me how the Tank vs Zerg dynamic has changed... I mean I'm looking at what a tank basically did before compared to after the nerf. Obliterating that front line of zerg. Well the front line is mainly Sppedlings and roaches. So the facts are :
Lings have 35 HP:
Roaches have 125: Armored
Tank dmg output before: 50
Tank dmg outpute after: 35, +15 to armor
So aren't they still going to basically one shot the lings and then do the same damage to the roaches. Maybe the reduction in normal damage will allow a couple lings to get through, but I'm seeing a stim MMM ball mowing down the leftovers extremely quick and the tanks 2nd shot still hitting the roaches. If not the second maybe their 2.5 or 3rd shot.
Can someone explain...
Oh and Protoss the lings are starting to look like the new reapers to your probes... good luck
Thanks |
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| MangoTango United States. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 3670 | Profile Blog # |
On August 28 2010 02:38 Nightbiscuit wrote:
Just watch how one Zerg pro after the other will switch to Terran after they read about these balance changes. Simply ridiculous.
What? Pretty sure Zerg got a buff while the others got nerfed. |
| | "One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis |
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| R0YAL United States. August 28 2010 02:50. Posts 1762 | Profile Blog # |
Yay i like these changes but there are more things id like to see such as
1) tech lab time increased to equal reactor
2) BC build time increased to 110
3) Bunker build time increased by 10 seconds OR salvage returns 75% resources from 100%
These arnt hate-on Terran nerfs for I am but a mere unbiased random player, I just think it would be better balanced  |
| | Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. |  |
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| knyttym United States. August 28 2010 02:51. Posts 5666 | Profile Blog # |
On August 15 2010 12:46 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 15 2010 12:40 KissBlade wrote:
On August 15 2010 12:22 IdrA wrote:
On August 15 2010 12:17 kNyTTyM wrote:
when are you going to pick up another race idra?
i still play a bit of terran on the asian ladder but i think im going to stick to zerg, i enjoy it much more and theyre definitely going to be patching it soon, would feel kind of stupid to switch to a race that doesnt suit me nearly as well just to have it nerfed.
Hey Idra, you mentioned Check thinks ZvP is impossible which is fairly uncommon as far as the view goes. Any insight on this matchup that makes it particularly tough?
its not uncommon, the only reason it doesnt get bitched about publicly amongst foreigners is that terran is a way bigger problem. the problem with zvp is that if you play safe vs zealot pressure early you're handicapped for the mid game, and vice versa.
Relevant quote. I see it very few times in my games but apparently it drives check crazy. |
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| Nightbiscuit Sweden. August 28 2010 02:51. Posts 179 | Profile # |
I don't play to become a pro, I play to have fun and not being able to beat equally good players as Zerg is not what I consider fun. Having to endure the current state of balance for at least two more months is not worth it imo. I could switch to terran but I have too much self-respect.
These balance changes are laughable and it only shows that Blizzard have dug themselves in quite a hole since nerfing them too much would upset the largest part of their player base as they would all lose quite a lot of rating. So instead, they will progressively nerf Terran instead of giving them one huge nerf, even though they are very aware of exactly how strong they are. |
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| Vortok United States. August 28 2010 02:51. Posts 659 | Profile # |
A sad day for Siege Tanks, and I don't even play T.
Although the Zealot build time nerf seems to hurt more than reaper/bunker build time nerfs, hopefully it's for the best and leads to slightly less shenanigans in PvP in addition to the proxy 2gate target. |
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| Arco United States. August 28 2010 02:51. Posts 1934 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:50 SichuanPanda wrote:
Just a little math on the Zealot change versus Zerg for everyone.
Timings:
Pylon - 25, Gateway - 65, Zealot - 38 (19 Chrono), Pool - 65, Zergling(s) - 24
Assumptions:
- Zerg is going 6/7 pool
- Protoss scouts / guesses this is coming 8 pylon
- Protoss Chronos the Zealot
Dicussion
Quite simply it takes 89 seconds from the start of the Pool for the Zerg to have Zerglings built and heading to the Ps base. Assuming an 8 rather than a 9 pylon, the Protoss will take 109 seconds after the start of the first Pylon to get one Zealot out.
With a 6/7 pool it essentially goes down at the same time as the Pylon - if not earlier, the pool will also be fully complete by the time the gate finishes.
The math does not lie there will be a full TWENTY SECOND window possible in Z v P where it is literally impossible for the Protoss to have a Zealot - (and that is only assuming the P goes the fastest possible Zealot build). I fear for this match-up on short-rush distance maps.
6/7 pool is easily stopped by making a tightwall with a combination of gateways/pylons/a forge. A cannon/chronoed zealot (even if out after lings are trying to kill your wall) seal you an easy win.
I never lose to this bs regardless.
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| shindigs United States. August 28 2010 02:52. Posts 4274 | Profile Blog # |
On August 28 2010 02:50 R0YAL wrote:Yay i like these changes but there are more things id like to see such as 1) tech lab time increased to equal reactor 2) BC build time increased to 110 3) Bunker build time increased by 10 seconds OR salvage returns 75% resources from 100% These arnt hate-on Terran nerfs for I am but a mere unbiased random player, I just think it would be better balanced
Tech lab time increase would screw up a lot of build order timings for terran. I don't think its necessary. |
| | Twitter: @shindags || Collegiate Starleague www.cstarleague.com || Sponsored by #ESPORTSPROBLEMS || twitch.tv/shindigs | |
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| Slayer91 Ireland. August 28 2010 02:52. Posts 8805 | Profile # |
On August 28 2010 02:30 Mastermind wrote:
Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 02:25 SiegeFlank wrote:
On August 28 2010 02:19 InToTheWannaB wrote:
"Zealot rushes are currently too powerful at various skill levels" ? Who gives a rats ass if a silver level player can't deal with a zealot rush? I'm zerg and never really had that big of a problem stoping zealot rushs. Hell I dont see pro matchs where protoss players are winning massive amounts of games with proxy zealot rushs too. I can't say I understand that change to much. The siege tank change seems cool. Maybe now zerglings and zealots could be useful vs them. I like most of the other changes as well from the look of things.
Even IdrA has said that 2gate aggressive Zealot play is too strong against Zerg, especially if they're fast expanding. It was another factor contributing to Zerg's really limited early game.
Even Idra? What is that suppose to mean? You take the whiniest player in the entire communities opinion on balance and act like it proves something? LOL
Sorry, but no offense, looks like idra is one of the best players in the community as well. The other 2 top zerg players in the world, one's going to switch terran and one went random and still is insanely good. He's hardly the whiniest player, just the one who's whines get's the most attention since its arguable that he's the best zerg in the world and is having problems.Last edit: 2010-08-28 02:53:15 |
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