| Quotidian Norway. September 11 2010 06:36. Posts 1670 | Profile # |
I'm guessing almost everyone has seen it by now. I'm curious if people have figured out the specifics of it beyond what was described in the match commentary.
Has anyone tried it? I gave something kind of like it a shot, and although I couldn't pull it off, I just loved the "attitude" of it and how it felt. It's both extremely mobile and in your opponents face, and also quite defensive.
Check it out here http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1042］http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1042Last edit: 2010-09-11 06:40:22 |
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| superbabosheki United States. September 11 2010 06:38. Posts 1466 | Profile Blog # |
It's a really good FE strat.
1) Gas before rax for fast factory.
2) Hellion to contain zerg, constant reinforcing
3) Pull SCVS off gas after factory in order to get a fast CC down(safe due to hellion aggression)
4) Fast +2 upgrade so hellions 2 shot zlings, and strengthen tank/thor vs roach
You need quite a bit of APM to constantly kite roaches while macroing.
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| Edso Canada. September 11 2010 06:42. Posts 112 | Profile # |
hmm it seemed like TLO would have got stomped if the zerg got mutas out, i dunno pure mech is sketchy with magic box mutas.
On the other hand I can also see the hellions forcing the roaches out so Zerg won't have enough gas to be able to tech to mutas.
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| superbabosheki United States. September 11 2010 06:43. Posts 1466 | Profile Blog # |
On September 11 2010 06:42 Edso wrote:
hmm it seemed like TLO would have got stomped if the zerg got mutas out, i dunno pure mech is sketchy with magic box mutas.
On the other hand I can also see the hellions forcing the roaches out so Zerg won't have enough gas to be able to tech to mutas.
Going muta and getting out a significant number is pretty much impossible with constant hellion pressure. Zerg HAS to go roaches which do eat up a good amount of gas, and having thors out in time is pretty easy since he does delay his port quite a bit.
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| Pufftrees September 11 2010 06:47. Posts 2322 | Profile # |
| This was definitely a very well thought out build. I'd say this opening is refined to at least a tier ahead of most builds out there. This really feels like a pro sc1 build from a distance. |
| | Chance favors the prepared mind. |
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| Cuh United States. September 11 2010 06:48. Posts 371 | Profile Blog # |
| I tried it right after the match, and it didnt work for me. Way to micro intensive for me to do. But im a better zerg after copying that roach play |
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| vontz September 11 2010 06:50. Posts 22 | Profile # |
| link no longer works, is there a replay of this or another link to it? |
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| Quotidian Norway. September 11 2010 06:52. Posts 1670 | Profile # |
It looks like TLO went for Thor before tank in the VOD, and also in my experience - where the zerg eventually got mutas - they aren't really a problem. I kept losing due to failures in both micro and macro.
Vontz, just go to gomtv.net. I guess you have to register there though...Last edit: 2010-09-11 06:53:15 |
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| bmalotaux Netherlands. September 11 2010 06:53. Posts 4 | Profile # | |
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 ccdnl United States. September 11 2010 06:53. Posts 610 | Profile # |
On September 11 2010 06:43 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 06:42 Edso wrote:
hmm it seemed like TLO would have got stomped if the zerg got mutas out, i dunno pure mech is sketchy with magic box mutas.
On the other hand I can also see the hellions forcing the roaches out so Zerg won't have enough gas to be able to tech to mutas.
Going muta and getting out a significant number is pretty much impossible with constant hellion pressure. Zerg HAS to go roaches which do eat up a good amount of gas, and having thors out in time is pretty easy since he does delay his port quite a bit.
i understand what you're trying to get at but I feel the same way as Edso, if zerg sets up some key spinecrawlers and manage with minimum amount of roaches, in order to save up to get mutas, that build would have been harassed so badly by mutas. Note that his Thors came out Pretty god damn late. In TLO'S match I was on my seat the whole time because if zerg used his mobility/drops to his advantaged and didnt suicide his units the match would have been much closer. And if Terran turtles...Zerg can just expand.
Last edit: 2010-09-11 06:54:16 |
| | civil cervixes || Kang Min Fan || I like TLO, TLO= German, I like Germans..? |
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 avilo United States. September 11 2010 06:53. Posts 3245 | Profile Blog # |
| newsflash: just because TLO did it does not mean it's new. Sounds like a solid/common strat though. |
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| ThreeSixDrew Canada. September 11 2010 06:54. Posts 152 | Profile # | |
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| ccdnl United States. September 11 2010 06:55. Posts 610 | Profile # |
On September 11 2010 06:54 ThreeSixDrew wrote:
A fresh link?
I dont think you can watch the vod unless you have an account/signed up for the service. |
| | civil cervixes || Kang Min Fan || I like TLO, TLO= German, I like Germans..? |
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| Pulimuli Sweden. September 11 2010 07:03. Posts 2579 | Profile Blog # |
ive seen DeMusliM use it quite alot as well
its a really nice build and TLO executed it very nicely in game1 today |
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| Quotidian Norway. September 11 2010 07:03. Posts 1670 | Profile # |
Avilo, it's the specifics of this build that makes it..eh.. specific. I've seen plenty of terrans do early/mass hellions against zerg, but there are some things about this build, like the double armories instead of blue flame, that kind of makes it feel - again - specific to TLO.
And why get into the whole "there is nothing new under the sun"-thing? That's not productive. |
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| ultramafia September 11 2010 07:40. Posts 219 | Profile # |
On September 11 2010 06:48 Cuh wrote:
I tried it right after the match, and it didnt work for me. Way to micro intensive for me to do. But im a better zerg after copying that roach play
this exactly. I'm only plat level zerg but i honestly believe TLO was just too good for this guy. Artosis was right about TLO's opponent he would have easily advanced against 70% of the field. The guy really played perfectly to counter TLO strategy but TLO was just way to micro intensive.
Either way i've already won several tough match-ups with this mass roach play. If opponent goes air its so easy to transition to hydra.
either way this was by far the best match so far in gsl and TLO really impressed me alot with
A) the sophistication of the build
B) the intuition to continue the strategy and win with pure micro/macro even after he faced several close situations.
C) the 2nd game i loved TLO's decision to switch up and harass with drops. Even after he showed an identical opening. Seemed a very natural transition and it seems like the opening may be very viable in several builds and strategies.
I know this is off topic but how sick was TLO's maur drops into the baneling ball. i was freaking out. |
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| DaZe Sweden. September 11 2010 07:53. Posts 2111 | Profile # |
Great play by TLO indeed but the strategy isn't really new, just modified. I would rather focus on his choice of strategy on that specific map (xel'naga cav) and how you can use your pressure early on to transfer into several follow-up's... mostly bio or mech.
edit: to elaborate the follow-up-thinking-pattern and clarify -> with the right harass and early pressure the zerg wont have much knowledge of whats going on and what to do next.Last edit: 2010-09-11 07:56:12 |
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| ltortoise September 11 2010 07:55. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On September 11 2010 06:53 avilo wrote:
newsflash: just because TLO did it does not mean it's new. Sounds like a solid/common strat though.
Agree with this. Common TvZ opening, excellently executed by one of my favorite players, TLO. |
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| Zips United States. September 11 2010 08:01. Posts 146 | Profile # |
So how do you counter this build, anyways?
In the commentary, tastetosis mentioned that he trained for this match with Idra, and idra said "his best chances for beating this seems to be roaches."
Well he went roaches, and did an amazing job at staying aggressive, but it just wasn't enough to counter mass tank + thor. The hellions weren't even that effective early game. He basically used this strat against an opener that would preform the best against it, and still managed to lose in both economy and army.
So what's a zerg to do, exactly? |
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| UnderWorld_Dream Canada. September 11 2010 08:12. Posts 219 | Profile # |
I'm surprised we havent seen pure mech play more often since the release.
It's a really good strategy but don't forget that TLO played very strong games. The wallin with starports at the end of game 1 was just brilliant. |
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