| Dionyseus United States. November 06 2010 21:52. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
| Found a small bug in v20. When you choose a 2 base goal, the output doesn't state that the goal is 2 bases even though the algorithm does give you a 2 base build order. |
| | 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius |
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| Existor Russian Federation. November 06 2010 22:05. Posts 3122 | Profile # |
| Can you explain, what the new functions in v20 ? I mean "Enforce worker parity" and "Always push 3 porkers together", and what is YABOT format? |
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| Dionyseus United States. November 06 2010 22:10. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
On November 06 2010 22:05 Existor wrote:
Can you explain, what the new functions in v20 ? I mean "Enforce worker parity" and "Always push 3 porkers together", and what is YABOT format?
Don't know what enforce worker parity does but I think Always Push 3 just sends 3 workers to gas whenever an extractor is made. YABOT format is for the Yabot build order program which lets you practice build orders, here's the website:
http://www.sc2builds.com/
and here's some more info about YABOT:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128752 |
| | 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius |
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| icezar Germany. November 06 2010 22:46. Posts 228 | Profile # |
Enforce worker parity
will add a condition that at x time you need to have y workers or the build is not satisfied.
I think that the number of workers is the amount that a Terran could produce in that amount of time by constantly making workers at Commandcenter.
Basically you want to use those like: None: for rush the other for econ builds
Always Push 3
means that it will only put and take 3 workers together on/off gas
This allows you to pull workers from gas but not loose too much performance. |
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| azzu Germany. November 07 2010 00:48. Posts 135 | Profile # |
On November 06 2010 22:05 Existor wrote:
Can you explain, what the new functions in v20 ? I mean "Enforce worker parity" and "Always push 3 porkers together", and what is YABOT format?
In simplier terms and/or further detail:
"Enforce worker parity" means that the program will only give you builds where you have the same amount of workers a terran could have had if the terran had the same amount of bases at the same time like you. (that means 1 worker every 17 seconds per base)
"Until saturation" means it does the above, but won't build additional workers if your base is already saturated.
"Overdrone" means it builds more drones than necessary (like a terran/protoss does) to transfer these extra drones when a new expansion finishes.
"Always pull/push 3 workers together" means that it doesn't build a really early gas and puts 1 drone in it. It always puts either 3 or 0 workers in a gas geysir with this option turned on. |
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| Bumblebees United States. November 07 2010 01:01. Posts 309 | Profile # |
It should be noted that worker parity options only work at a specific efficiency. (I believe it's 80% right now).
This allows some headroom to get quicker builds, and to account for larva spawn. Most of the time the build requirements will be satisfied with larva and minerals that could be used to pull the total drone count to 100% efficiency.Last edit: 2010-11-07 01:02:14 |
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| azzu Germany. November 07 2010 01:03. Posts 135 | Profile # |
On November 06 2010 07:14 The Touch wrote:
Now forgive me if there's a way of doing this in the interface that I haven't figured out, or if this would be ridiculously complicated and time consuming to code (I have literally no clue about such things), but I keep finding myself wishing there was a feature where you could add a condition that building or unit X must be finished before building or unit Y starts.
There is a dirty way to do this right now.
The program will most likely build the things needed for a waypoint as late as possible. So for example if you set your waypoint for 4 zerglings to 3:00 it will most likely build the zerglings at ~2:36 (24 seconds zergling build time).
You can then apply this knowledge to your problem.
If you want your roach warren to start building 15 seconds after your zerglings came out, you have to set a waypoint to have a Roach Warren built at 3:15 + 0:55(build time) which is 4:10.
So your new setup in your specific case would be
3:00 4 zerglings
4:10 roach warren
5:30 7 roaches |
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| tsuxiit November 07 2010 01:06. Posts 1274 | Profile # |
| This program seems to have a difficult time choosing how many bases it wants, or venturing into the territory of fast expanding to optimize its builds. I told it I wanted 48 zerglings and a nydus worm without specifying the number of bases, and over about 9 hours of sleep it gave me one that I can do in 7:52 on one base, but today I told it to do the same with 2 base as a goal and in 15 minutes it gave me one that accomplishes the build in 7:21. Perhaps you should tell it to be more aggressive when trying multiple hatcheries, Lomilar. |
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| Lomilar United States. November 07 2010 01:31. Posts 130 | Profile # |
Did you delete the old build before you told it to do the 2-base build?
Because if not, it used the first build as a template for the 2-base build. :-)
Nonetheless, I got a 7:39 build for 48 lings in a few minutes. 7:26.
7:18...
I need to send this... 7:05, on one base in fact.
huh.
6:59 |
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| Lomilar United States. November 07 2010 01:31. Posts 130 | Profile # |
| Yes, v0020 is out. I do need to still write up the changelog. Just doing last minute testing right now. |
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| tsuxiit November 07 2010 01:48. Posts 1274 | Profile # |
Wait, just 48 lings? or 48 lings and a nydus network and nydus worm?
And no, I mean the 2 base build was fine, I just found it odd that over the 9 hours I ran the program last night it stuck to 1 basing when, apparently, and this is just with the data I have right now, 2-basing the build is inherently faster. But after I'm done with this other task I'll delete everything and retry the build without specifying number of bases.
edit: Oh, and those are 48 speedlings too, not just regular lings.Last edit: 2010-11-07 01:51:53 |
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| Dionyseus United States. November 07 2010 02:03. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
On November 06 2010 15:02 PR4Y wrote:Just thought I should add... I ran my Phenom II x4 @ 3.2GHz running for almost 24 hours, and found a BO that sacrifices a LOT of early economy for a MUCH earlier 7 Roach Rush (@4:32) Note: It simulated 165,000,000+ games... and I'm quite confident this is as good as it gets for the 7RR. The simulator didn't make a single change to the BO in the last 9 hours of run-time, so I'm guessing this is as fast as it gets.Here is the DETAILED format: + Show Spoiler +@0:00 M:50 G:0 L:3 S:6/10 BuildDrone @0:13 M:51 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone @0:15 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:17 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:24 M:52 G:0 L:2 S:8/10 BuildDrone @0:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:30 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:34 M:54 G:0 L:2 S  /10 BuildDrone @0:41 Spawned: Drone+1 @0:45 Spawned: Larva+1 @0:51 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:00 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:05 M:204 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildSpawningPool @1:13 M:55 G:0 L:3 S /10 BuildDrone @1:28 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:28 M:100 G:0 L:3 S:10/10 BuildOverlord @1:30 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:32 M:27 G:0 L:2 S:10/10 BuildExtractor @1:40 M:52 G:0 L:2 S /10 BuildDrone @1:43 Spawned: Larva+1 @1:53 Spawned: Overlord+1 @1:53 M:85 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 BuildDrone @1:57 Spawned: Drone+1 @1:58 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:02 Spawned: Extractor+1 @2:10 Spawned: Spawning Pool+1 @2:10 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:10 M:152 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 MineGas @2:10 M:152 G:0 L:2 S:11/18 BuildRoachWarren @2:10 M:2 G:0 L:2 S:10/18 MineGas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:12 Mining: +1 on gas @2:13 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:19 M:52 G:11 L:3 S:10/18 BuildDrone @2:28 M:52 G:23 L:2 S:11/18 BuildDrone @2:28 M:2 G:23 L:1 S:12/18 MineGas @2:30 Mining: +1 on gas @2:34 Spawned: Larva+1 @2:36 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:45 Spawned: Drone+1 @2:47 M:103 G:59 L:2 S:12/18 BuildOverlord @2:49 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:04 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:05 Spawned: Roach Warren+1 @3:05 M:118 G 3 L:3 S:12/18 MineMineral @3:05 M:118 G 3 L:3 S:12/18 BuildRoach @3:07 Mining: +1 on mineral @3:10 M 7 G 5 L:2 S:14/18 BuildRoach @3:12 Spawned: Overlord+1 @3:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:21 M:80 G:66 L:2 S:16/26 BuildRoach @3:31 M 6 G:55 L:1 S:18/26 BuildRoach @3:32 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:35 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:37 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:42 M:80 G:45 L:1 S:20/26 BuildRoach @3:48 Spawned: Roach+1 @3:50 Spawned: Larva+1 @3:52 M 6 G:34 L:1 S:22/26 BuildRoach @3:58 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:05 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:05 M 3 G:27 L:1 S:24/26 BuildRoach @4:09 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:19 Spawned: Roach+1 @4:20 Spawned: Larva+1 @4:32 Spawned: Roach+1 Satisfied. Number of actions in build order: 35 ---Final Output--- At time: 4:32 Minerals: 210 Gas: 40 Supply: 26/26 Drones: 12 Overlords: 3 Roaches: 7 Hatcheries: 1 Gas Extractors: 1 Spawning Pools: 1 Roach Warrens: 1 ------------------ Fri Nov 05 18:49:42 EDT 2010: 984.3337354022492 And here is the SIMPLE format: + Show Spoiler +10 SpawningPool M:204 G:0 10 Overlord M:100 G:0 10 Extractor M:27 G:0 11 +1 Drone on gas M:152 G:0 11 RoachWarren M:152 G:0 10 +1 Drone on gas M:2 G:0 12 +1 Drone on gas M:2 G:23 12 Overlord M:103 G:59 12 +1 Drone on minerals M:118 G 3 12 Roach M:118 G 3 14 Roach M 7 G 5 16 Roach M:80 G:66 18 Roach M 6 G:55 20 Roach M:80 G:45 22 Roach M 6 G:34 24 Roach M 3 G:27 Thanks SO MUCH for this app! Are there any plans for Terran / Protoss? I'm an experienced Java developer and have looked at the code repository and am confident I could be of assistance if need be... PM me on here if you wish. Enjoy!
You might have discovered the fastest 7 roach rush.
As for the protoss and terran version, check out the work being done for the protoss version, it seems several programmers are working on versions of it:
http://code.google.com/p/evolutionchamber/issues/detail?id=19#c14 |
| | 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius |
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| Dionyseus United States. November 07 2010 02:13. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
| Having problems in v20 with the start and stop buttons dissapearing from view. I have to stretch the ui up until the very top of my monitor just to see the buttons at the top, but then the buttons at the bottom right dissapear. Last edit: 2010-11-07 02:15:04 |
| | 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius |
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| Ncinerate November 07 2010 02:17. Posts 172 | Profile # |
On November 06 2010 13:48 Lomilar wrote:
I don't know if I have entirely taken it in stride. :-) v0018 will tell you why.
Huzzah!
Lomilar, I love you man ;p.
Special thanks to -you- for making this program. I appreciate the humor, you have no idea how annoying it was getting blown up over something so trivial by people who didn't watch the evolution of the thread  (or who didn't realize builds like the 7RR existed clear back into the beta).
GG |
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| Ulwithy Canada. November 07 2010 03:08. Posts 8 | Profile # |
On November 06 2010 22:46 icezar wrote:
Enforce worker parity
will add a condition that at x time you need to have y workers or the build is not satisfied.
I think that the number of workers is the amount that a Terran could produce in that amount of time by constantly making workers at Commandcenter.
Basically you want to use those like: None: for rush the other for econ builds
I was wondering about this, thanks! |
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| some_proxy November 07 2010 04:13. Posts 4 | Profile # |
First of all, great work. Thanks to the team, this is really revolutionizing the gameplay !
Second, would it be possible to be able to put the number of waypoints ? I'd like to do builds that have 20+ WPs
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| PhilDK Denmark. November 07 2010 07:03. Posts 6 | Profile # |
How to run this program, I can't get it to work on my mac  |
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| Rahlekk United States. November 07 2010 07:44. Posts 106 | Profile # |
Anyone found some good Queen-oriented builds? I love using them, but I can't seem to find a viable one.
Suggestions on what I'd want in the program? Any upgrades, etc.? |
| | viel gluck TLO ^^ | 행운을 빌어요 BoxeR |
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| rbx270j Canada. November 07 2010 07:56. Posts 529 | Profile # |
I have a couple of suggestions that I don't think would be too difficult to implement.
I think a " scout" or "unproductive drone" option would be useful for the purposes of scouting. by this I mean having the ability to make the program treat a drone like a building costing no minerals, no gas, and 1 supply. In practicality, this would let the build order allow the usage of a drone as a scout.
I'd also like to be able to have a min/max mineral and gas entry field for waypoint and final. That way I could, say, have 200 minerals left right as my lair completes as part of my build order so certain tech options would be available regardless of how long the build takes. Conversely, by mandatorily keeping the minerals or gas low, we could optimize the build's drone transfer times (in terms of the result of the result it produces). |
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| Bumblebees United States. November 07 2010 08:01. Posts 309 | Profile # |
On November 07 2010 07:56 rbx270j wrote:
I have a couple of suggestions that I don't think would be too difficult to implement.
I think a " scout" or "unproductive drone" option would be useful for the purposes of scouting. by this I mean having the ability to make the program treat a drone like a building costing no minerals, no gas, and 1 supply. In practicality, this would let the build order allow the usage of a drone as a scout.
I'd also like to be able to have a min/max mineral and gas entry field for waypoint and final. That way I could, say, have 200 minerals left right as my lair completes as part of my build order so certain tech options would be available regardless of how long the build takes. Conversely, by mandatorily keeping the minerals or gas low, we could optimize the build's drone transfer times (in terms of the result of the result it produces).
v0020 has a scouting drone. Look on the final tab, labeled "scout timing". This will make your X drone not be sent to mine.
The problem with specifying a certain number of resources available is that it will not be able to take into account what you want to do with those resources (i.e. not enough overlords/larva ready to spawn units, or correct structures for specific upgrade). Thusly it will not calculate the final minerals/gas if you go ahead and make those structures 'outside' the build order given. You will simply be given a build order with excess resources and no expectation of a method of actually spending it, which is pretty silly.
It already keeps minerals/gas low. Excess is penalized, which is based on the assumption that excess resources that are available when the requirements are met are excess resource gathering units/structures that can be cut to reduce overall time.Last edit: 2010-11-07 08:04:49 |
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