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| Slayer91 Ireland. February 24 2012 23:29. Posts 8997 | Profile # |
| Irelia pretty good against nidalee. |
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| Alaric France. February 24 2012 23:57. Posts 9265 | Profile # |
On February 24 2012 22:35 r.Evo wrote:
Why is Nidalee being treated as "Yeah post 6 she instawins lanes" in GD atm?
Too mobile to be ganked or even caught, pushes really well (ranged, AS boost, powerful AoE abilities with no cost and low CD in cougar form), strong 1v1 and hard to escape from (cougar-Q is an execution type move with huge base damage and really low CD + mobility from Pounce and passive), harasses very well, sustains with E, W is an excellent shred when fighting.
Basically she'll spear you to death and run whenever you try to get her.Last edit: 2012-02-25 02:03:33 |
| | "This build should be called the Neutron Bomb build - you can win by taking out all the people but leaving all the structures standing." - somebody about iEchoic's 2fac/2port (www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624) |
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| r.Evo Germany. February 25 2012 01:54. Posts 5397 | Profile # |
| So basicly the plan is to be in human form, chuck spears, heal, trap -> cougar -> blow CDs -> turn around -> back to human and repeat? =S |
| | "We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross |
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| Mogwai United States. February 25 2012 01:57. Posts 8053 | Profile Blog # |
On February 25 2012 01:54 r.Evo wrote:
So basicly the plan is to be in human form, chuck spears, heal, trap -> cougar -> blow CDs -> turn around -> back to human and repeat? =S
or just stay a cat and show your opponent how kitties are just as tough as dragon ladies or something. my last few games vs. nid have been nid gets wriggle's -> huge defensive item and solos me when I have like, 1-2K gold worth of offensive items on her defensive build, yet she still trucks me. |
| | mogwaismusings.wordpress.com |
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| Alaric France. February 25 2012 02:04. Posts 9265 | Profile # |
By "spear you to death" I meant with auto-attacks since I thought we were talking about bruiser Nidalee top. She does that better than Pantheon.  |
| | "This build should be called the Neutron Bomb build - you can win by taking out all the people but leaving all the structures standing." - somebody about iEchoic's 2fac/2port (www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624) |
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| HazMat United States. February 25 2012 02:22. Posts 9276 | Profile Blog # |
| I wish I could chime in but I have given up on Nidalee ever since Riot made her the same as every other tanky bruiser dps boring wriggles hero champ top whore. |
| | @ShakeDrizzle. I love you all. |
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| bmn February 25 2012 03:55. Posts 520 | Profile # |
Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse. |
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| barbsq United States. February 25 2012 04:10. Posts 3047 | Profile # |
On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote:
Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
really? i was vs a shyv yesterday and had no problem just straight up autoattack fighting her, esp with the aspeed buff on heal. |
| | Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ |
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| bmn February 25 2012 05:58. Posts 520 | Profile # |
On February 25 2012 04:10 barbsq wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote:
Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
really? i was vs a shyv yesterday and had no problem just straight up autoattack fighting her, esp with the aspeed buff on heal.
Yeah, I don't know why I feel so weak in early direct 1v1, it doesn't match what I read others saying about nidalee.
I'd really appreciate any tips.
I'm running apen reds, apen quints, and armor yellow and mres/level blue (IIRC). 21/9/0 masteries. Not optimal offensive masteries (both mpen and apen, just for the flexibility), but still, I haven't been able to flat-out 1v1 anyone I tried in half a dozen or so games. My harrass seemed to do way less damage per spear than I'd think listening to others.
I pretty much always start boots+3pot.
Is it because I don't run flat ad quints or something?
The last person I fought was trynd, in two successive games. Never came close to killing trynd (both trynds went for crit builds). In a 1v1 they'd slaughter me; my harrass never got them low enough because they kept rage-healing, and threatening trades when I harrassed too far from the bush. The first trynd went 4-0 on me because I played too aggressive, the second one never killed me, but it was a giant farm fest that I only won decisively due to jungler help.
Starting dblade feels too dangerous because even with boots trynd can catch up easily if you don't have boots pre-pounce; with pounce, he still gets off 1-2 free hits with slow + whirlwind (pounce has lower cd so you get away after that).
Wukong also has a much scarier burst than ad nidalee early game, so I couldn't straight-up 1v1 him. (He also has much better escapes and chasing power, at least pre-6.) |
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 0123456789 United States. February 25 2012 10:04. Posts 1847 | Profile Blog # |
| You don't 1v1 with nid. You poke. That's why garen and rumble strong vs nid. Best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them. Run if jungler comes or they try to fight you. You have brush. And traps. Nidalee is a champ that you need good csing skills with, because a lot of times, you're just going to split push and outfarm your opponent. Last edit: 2012-02-25 10:05:51 |
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| overt United States. February 25 2012 10:14. Posts 4156 | Profile Blog # |
On February 25 2012 03:55 bmn wrote:
Er, for some reason nobody here mentioned her passive. AFAICT that's the real reason she can harrass so well top lane.
Stay in bushes, whenever opponent comes to cs run out, chuck a spear, go back into bush. That way you take 0 minion hits and they can't retaliate.
I often find that I have no chance to 1v1 my opponent directly, e.g. when fighting trynd top, but there's not much they can do about the bush abuse.
Trynd is like one of the best counters to Nidalee lane though. Almost every champion other than him you can 1v1 post-6 because cougar form burst is ridiculous. If for some reason you can't effectively trade, like if it's Trynd and he heals just as much as you do, then you can just cougar and insta-clear every wave and keep tower pushed. It's hard for someone to straight up fight you if they constantly have minions at their tower. You just have to make sure you keep river warded. |
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| bmn February 25 2012 10:28. Posts 520 | Profile # |
On February 25 2012 10:04 0123456789 wrote:
You don't 1v1 with nid. You poke. That's why garen and rumble strong vs nid. Best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them. Run if jungler comes or they try to fight you. You have brush. And traps. Nidalee is a champ that you need good csing skills with, because a lot of times, you're just going to split push and outfarm your opponent.
Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying with "best way to poke is to just push to their tower and poke them".
If you can't 1v1, how do you push the lane? In human form you have range, but you don't push particularly fast. In cougar form you can push fast, but you have to get in the midst of the wave, where your enemy can start fighting you if they want.
Do you just jump in, clear wave, jump out, and accept that you'll lose a bunch of health in the process?
Or do you first force them away by poking from bushes until they back off, then jump in?
(I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have no clue how other people lane Nidalee, e.g. how aggressive you should be while farming)
As for trynd, if he's strong against Nid, that explains my troubles, thanks.Last edit: 2012-02-25 10:30:07 |
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| 0123456789 United States. February 25 2012 10:37. Posts 1847 | Profile Blog # |
| You're thinking way into the later levels. Nid is all about win lane early, then use that gold adv to win later. Push lane from lvl 1. Get the wave to their tower, not missing cs at all, 0, then you poke them from tower. Last edit: 2012-02-25 10:40:28 |
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| anmolsinghmzn2009 India. March 04 2012 13:38. Posts 836 | Profile # |
so usually with ad bruiser nid I go wriggles ->tanky. But what if I'm vs an AP? Say its top vs a kennen/rumble. Or, like yesterday I had a game where we had an akali who didn't want to go mid vs cass so I went mid and she went top. Do I still just go wriggles? Or stack dorans?
Edit: also, is frozen heart better than atmas? Atmas only affect the damage on Q(cougar). While FH gives more than double the armor, and decreased cool = more spell spam (so moar damage) and more mobility with pounce spam. Last edit: 2012-03-04 16:41:34 |
| | If you're having skyrim problems i feel bad for you son; i dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one. |
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| nojok France. March 05 2012 03:23. Posts 2173 | Profile # |
I'm only around 1500 elo but nid is my best heroe, I jsut switch to ap nid if I know I can't force the other guy out of lane or seriously reduce his CS count. I rush deathcap. Once 6 you can CS under your tower easily.
Concerning AD nidalee, I prefer to get triforce because it allows you push lanes faster and therefore get their towers. You can win games solely and it's really crap because you're never in teamfights, but ir requires some mates with good def abilities who would not let the other dives under tower. I will try the tanky nidalee but I would like to know what you build after wriggles. |
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| anmolsinghmzn2009 India. March 05 2012 12:54. Posts 836 | Profile # |
On March 05 2012 03:23 nojok wrote:
I'm only around 1500 elo but nid is my best heroe, I jsut switch to ap nid if I know I can't force the other guy out of lane or seriously reduce his CS count. I rush deathcap. Once 6 you can CS under your tower easily.
Concerning AD nidalee, I prefer to get triforce because it allows you push lanes faster and therefore get their towers. You can win games solely and it's really crap because you're never in teamfights, but ir requires some mates with good def abilities who would not let the other dives under tower. I will try the tanky nidalee but I would like to know what you build after wriggles.
Oh I didn't have any problem forcing that cass out of the lane anyways.
And yeah tanky nid - wriggles, then situational really. I don't really have much experience playing nid (since I'm usually forced to jungle most games) and I'm still experimenting.
After wriggles I pick up like either a bruta or sheen. Then phage. Usually, either I'll finish triforce if I'm really ahead or get my mog+chainvest+negatron.
Final item build I suppose is like - boots, warmog, atma/FH, FoN/abyssal, triforce, BT.
That said, please don't take follow anything I say too seriously and just follow the advice of our TL vets like smash, yango. They can offer you much more reliable opinions than some random scrub like me :> |
| | If you're having skyrim problems i feel bad for you son; i dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one. |
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| noggnoskill United States. April 02 2012 23:54. Posts 54 | Profile Blog # |
I've decided to pick up Nidalee after getting tired of the other broken top champions including Udyr and Riven, and I gotta say...
This is just a whole new level of unfair. Playing against ranged is already stressful as a melee, but she also has a heal and an AS steroid on the same button. And god forbid you step on a trap, there's a 20-40% armor shred on you right there. Once she gets to 6, there aren't very many champions that can even stay in lane against her anymore. 20 free armor/MR, absurd chasing/escape ability, an execute on a 5 second cooldown, and crazy high base damages. Her traps are basically free wards before your first back, so getting an early gank on her is nearly as hard as when she has her ridiculous escape after 6. After she has Wriggles, she doesn't even need to back. Ever.
I usually start boots, trap stuff up, then b for a 4th pot. Stay in lane until wriggles unless jungler is babysitting, then Phage > Merc Treads. Go for a hexdrinker if against dumb AP champions like Kennen and Vlad, otherwise I rush triforce because AD carries have no clue what they're doing in solo queue and just end up going in like Xin Zhao bot. From there I either get atmas if I need MOAR DEEPS or a Warmogs if the enemy team is smart enough to focus me. I'll usually finish off with a Frozen Heart, but the games tend to be over before I can get there because top inhib is dead by 25 minutes huehuehuehue |
| | Never forget, JAYM 4/4/2012 |
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| ExceeD_DreaM Canada. April 04 2012 01:34. Posts 462 | Profile Blog # |
It is unacceptable to lose top with nidalee unless you are against say Pantheon or Tryn. She is awesome if the player really knows how to play. I play Maknoon style (Korean pro who is top specialist), and it's just starting off standard depending on opponent, either armor+5pot or boots+3pot then getting phage straight away then either go straight trinity or build FH first. (wriggle first if started with armor or maybe ninja tabi)
A good nid will win top convincingly even before level 6 so almost every time, when I go back to town for the first time, it will be around 1500 gold so get wriggles if you started armor or phage+ward if boots. I tend to just go ninja tabi if there are more AD carries but mres boots are nice too. FH, Atmog, boots, trin and FoN to close out the end game. Making wriggle really delays the timing of trin force so if i am ahead (most of the time), i just go straight for phage+frozen. I think of her as upgraded version of PotM (Mirana), and i think shes more fun to play. I personally think AP nid is pretty bad, because opponent must be really bad to get hit by the spears.. and cougar Q is just too awesome to ignore.
I go Arpen red, armor yellow, lvl Mres blue, either arpen/move speed quint. Sometimes i go 21/9 or 9/21, but most of the time i like 21/9 as it synergizes most with my +25 arpen runes. trap first (or heal first to leash for your teammate at blue), Q, E, W, Q/E (E for staying in lane, Q for being aggressive and denying at lvl 6) then at level 6, insta kill but you should have a kill already before 6 vs typical top heroes...
If I am facing a really tough top hero, i just bring exhaust/ignite lol to just try kill him first. flash is really really useful late game when I am on cd to jump over a ledge or fail to do so (stupid pathing sometimes), but i personally think getting big early is more important. Then you just pwn everyone..Last edit: 2012-04-04 01:41:15 |
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| Alaric France. April 04 2012 02:31. Posts 9265 | Profile # |
| Does she beat Shen though? I was against a Nidalee, took armor yellows+quints, cloth+5 start, and if she didn't kill me under my tower (barely living, because I ran tp/ghost rather than combat summoner) we'd have hit 6 at around the same time, same with wriggles. I found that even post-6, once we both had wriggles I'd just smash her if she tried to fight, and all she could do was trade health for cs once she pushed me to tower. |
| | "This build should be called the Neutron Bomb build - you can win by taking out all the people but leaving all the structures standing." - somebody about iEchoic's 2fac/2port (www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624) |
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| noggnoskill United States. April 05 2012 01:21. Posts 54 | Profile Blog # |
| As easily as she wins trades, she doesn't even need to trade to win the game. Anyone who can out trade her won't have the wave clear to stop her from pushing to your tower and either roaming or killing the tower. I haven't played enough of her to say she just doesn't have a counter, but the last 25 games I've played with her I've won my lane easily. As long as you keep river and tribush (if you're blue side) trapped up you're impossible to gank before 6. Unless it's like a roam boots Rammus who just goes straight in, but that's a little... extreme. As long as you don't blow your flash just to get a kill you shouldn't really ever die. |
| | Never forget, JAYM 4/4/2012 |
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