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| ThePurist Canada. June 04 2012 12:34. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
On June 04 2012 12:09 OneBaseKing wrote:
I have been using the Bose QC3 headphones for about two years now. Haters gonna hate :D
As much as I don't like Bose, am glad to see you enjoy it :3 |
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| Myrmidon United States. June 04 2012 15:30. Posts 8482 | Profile Blog # |
IMHO:
On June 04 2012 12:28 ThePurist wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Tried out the infamous AD700+Zalman Clip on on a normal setup without amplification today. Still can't see how it appeals so greatly to a vast majority of people. + Show Spoiler +The pros were very readily available online so I won't even bother.
I'll just mention the "unspoken" cons.
- Zalman mic is like $5~9 or whatever I guess at its pricepoint it isn't that bad. However it picks up background noise very well and does not have any noise cancelling features. I guess if you game in a quiet environment it is not that bad, but I tested a short Skype call vs. a $15 logitech headset and the headset was much clearer. Furthermore, the clip on mic has little clips on the main cable that is supposed to clip onto your headset but it is terribly made and may not work with the headphones you own.
- AD700 I mean it's a pretty decent headphone but it's over-hyped like no tomorrow. I love Audio Technica (am a huge fanboy) and own a few of the W series but there are too many cons with the "gaming combo". Once again, the greatest con is the environmental factors (open-design), as well as others.
- The sound quality on the AD700 is not bad for the price, but I would argue there are many better alternatives if one were to go for a Headphone+mic combo.
1) ATH-M50 = $100, looks better (subjective), comes in white/silver/black, there are certain deals to make it extremely cheap online, portable, can use on the go as well, closed headphone (although it doesn't isolate too well) - Primary usage: Studio Monitoring/Mixing
2) Shure SRH440 = $80, looks better (subjective) great sound for given price point, detachable cable, collapsible can use on the go if you want. Primary usage: Studio Monitoring/Mixing
3) Any of those Beyerdynamic headset models. Pricey but I guess if you want one of the best you might want one. Primary usage: Commentating/Broadacasting
4) Or just a normal headset. $10~100. Usually has good features for "gaming". Primary usage: Gaming
5) Any "audiophile" headphone. Primary usage: To enjoy music
All in all, I'm just saying there are tons of choices. Jumping on the bandwagon + Show Spoiler +and considering the AD700+Zalman the greatest is just stupid. If you are happy with it that's great, but then I would say ignorance is bliss.
Secondly, not hearing as much bass and having a decently wide soundstage (or whatever you want to call it) help for positional audio cues. Also, they don't hear as much how bad the clip-on mic is.
On June 04 2012 11:15 maga33 wrote:
I asked a few months ago about upgrading from an ad700. I ended up going with the senn HD650s. I'm wondering whats a good dac/sound card for headphones. My budget is $150
If you have skepticism (warranted or not) of boutique Asian audio product manufacturers—a lot of them are kinda shady or put out some crap, after all, but some don't—you can also look at Asus Xonar Essence ST / STX. Auzentech Forte or Bravura are probably okay, if the Essence is slightly too expensive. YMMV with regards to drivers being crappy or not, or picking up noise or weird chirps from other activity in the computer though, with internal sound cards. You've been warned. |
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| ThePurist Canada. June 04 2012 15:54. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
Meh, I am always open to try new things but my firsthand experience was ultimately very disappointing. People make it out to be the holy grail of PC gaming audio. If it weren't the case I wouldn't rip on it so much but I enjoy ripping on the bandwagons :3 What can I say.
You must understand that people who purchase online don't get to hear it before they buy it and once they get it, this kicks in overdrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance and they must gloat/talk about how it is the best to justify it to themselves a la Head-Fi.
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| ThePurist Canada. June 04 2012 15:57. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
| I can ask my buddy if the HD650 buzzes/hisses on the ST (high gain?) if you want? I don't own any high impedance cans. |
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| Imbattable Germany. June 04 2012 22:02. Posts 82 | Profile # |
On June 04 2012 15:54 ThePurist wrote:Meh, I am always open to try new things but my firsthand experience was ultimately very disappointing. People make it out to be the holy grail of PC gaming audio. If it weren't the case I wouldn't rip on it so much but I enjoy ripping on the bandwagons :3 What can I say. You must understand that people who purchase online don't get to hear it before they buy it and once they get it, this kicks in overdrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance and they must gloat/talk about how it is the best to justify it to themselves a la Head-Fi.
The thing is that the combination of a good set of cans together with a cheap mic will beat ANY "gaming headset" at the same point of price. Seriously, the sound quality you get out of of anything labelled "gaming" is totally NOT warranting the price tag associated with it.
I think there is no "one headphone" to get - I have testet different entry level headphones (Superlux HD 681, HD-330, HD-669, Sennheiser HD 595) together with different mics (the infamous Zalman and some hama clip-on mic) and found the sound quality exceeding any gaming headset I ever heard (mostly stuff from Logitech, but also Sennheiser).
Additional question: Has anyone tested the new Superlux HMD-660 yet? Seems like it could be a good buy for a closed-back headset solution, as it is not more expensive than the headphones it is based on (HD-660, basically another beyerdynamic clone). |
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 Milkis June 05 2012 10:53. Posts 4776 | Profile Blog # |
My HE500s arrived today.
My amp (nuforce icon hdp) arrives tomorrow.
Last edit: 2012-06-05 11:00:56 |
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| Myrmidon United States. June 05 2012 11:00. Posts 8482 | Profile Blog # |
On June 04 2012 15:57 ThePurist wrote:
I can ask my buddy if the HD650 buzzes/hisses on the ST (high gain?) if you want? I don't own any high impedance cans.
It depends on the computer it's installed in, so that won't mean too much of anything. With higher-impedance and lower-sensitivity headphones any type of spurious noises will be quieter though. (HD 650 is high impedance but not insensitive).
On June 05 2012 10:53 Milkis wrote:My HE500s arrived today. My amp arrives tomorrow.
Some sources are kinda okay maxing out volume into 50 ohms or so. If not, it should be okay at something lower.
It's not like some low-end integrated amp is going to damage the headphones. You're mostly just loosing some volume and maybe damping factor, possibly clipping if the volume is too high, maybe a little extra distortion because of needing to go near max volume into a relatively low impedance. That seems like it should suck, but it probably won't. Have fun with the new headphones.
What's the amp, btw? |
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| Milkis June 05 2012 11:03. Posts 4776 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 11:00 Myrmidon wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 15:57 ThePurist wrote:
I can ask my buddy if the HD650 buzzes/hisses on the ST (high gain?) if you want? I don't own any high impedance cans.
It depends on the computer it's installed in, so that won't mean too much of anything. With higher-impedance and lower-sensitivity headphones any type of spurious noises will be quieter though. (HD 650 is high impedance but not insensitive).
Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 10:53 Milkis wrote:My HE500s arrived today. My amp arrives tomorrow.
Some sources are kinda okay maxing out volume into 50 ohms or so. If not, it should be okay at something lower. It's not like some low-end integrated amp is going to damage the headphones. You're mostly just loosing some volume and maybe damping factor, possibly clipping if the volume is too high, maybe a little extra distortion because of needing to go near max volume into a relatively low impedance. That seems like it should suck, but it probably won't. Have fun with the new headphones. What's the amp, btw?
nuforce icon hdp. It was pretty much an impulse buy after reading headfi posts after picking up the HE 500 from a user there since i figured i'd probably take forever to decide otherwise and I didn't want to do that tube thing D: |
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| ThePurist Canada. June 05 2012 14:46. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # | |
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| ThePurist Canada. June 05 2012 14:49. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
On June 04 2012 22:02 Imbattable wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 15:54 ThePurist wrote:Meh, I am always open to try new things but my firsthand experience was ultimately very disappointing. People make it out to be the holy grail of PC gaming audio. If it weren't the case I wouldn't rip on it so much but I enjoy ripping on the bandwagons :3 What can I say. You must understand that people who purchase online don't get to hear it before they buy it and once they get it, this kicks in overdrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance and they must gloat/talk about how it is the best to justify it to themselves a la Head-Fi.
The thing is that the combination of a good set of cans together with a cheap mic will beat ANY "gaming headset" at the same point of price. Seriously, the sound quality you get out of of anything labelled "gaming" is totally NOT warranting the price tag associated with it. I think there is no "one headphone" to get - I have testet different entry level headphones (Superlux HD 681, HD-330, HD-669, Sennheiser HD 595) together with different mics (the infamous Zalman and some hama clip-on mic) and found the sound quality exceeding any gaming headset I ever heard (mostly stuff from Logitech, but also Sennheiser). Additional question: Has anyone tested the new Superlux HMD-660 yet? Seems like it could be a good buy for a closed-back headset solution, as it is not more expensive than the headphones it is based on (HD-660, basically another beyerdynamic clone).
Okay, challenge time: $15 price point. Not trying to be difficult but I genuinely want to see what can be had.
I will offer the competition: + Show Spoiler +
The Zalman mic is already $5-10 so I dunno man lolLast edit: 2012-06-05 14:50:58 |
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| slytown United States. June 05 2012 14:53. Posts 1189 | Profile Blog # |
On May 30 2012 07:25 m4gdelen4 wrote:
hey guys i have a pair of Senn hd650s. Im still a newbie at this. Anybody know of a good amp combo with these cans?
not exactly ready to invest in an amp yet just really curious. much thanks
I really enjoy those through the Millet Minimax. Consider it.
http://diyforums.org/MiniMAX/MiniMAXoverview.php |
| | I'm a NukeKnight. Are you? http://www.youtube.com/user/NukeTheStars; The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK |
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| ThePurist Canada. June 05 2012 14:53. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 11:00 Myrmidon wrote:
It depends on the computer it's installed in, so that won't mean too much of anything. With higher-impedance and lower-sensitivity headphones any type of spurious noises will be quieter though. (HD 650 is high impedance but not insensitive).
True, but his gaming rig is extreme like totally maxed out ($2500~3000) everything with latest cards and a bunch of other stuff going on so I dunno it could be helpful to gauge the level of interference.Last edit: 2012-06-05 14:55:08 |
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| Freeheals United States. June 05 2012 14:57. Posts 487 | Profile Blog # |
I want a headphone that I can use next year during my freshman year of college without bothering my roommate from leaked sound and not being bothered by his noise, after doing some research and looking at isolation graphs on headfi and whatnot, I've come up with the akg k 550. Has anyone had these headphones? Can anyone recommend another solution for the isolation I need in that price range? $200-300
edit: obviously i'm looking for completely-around ear and closed back phonesLast edit: 2012-06-05 14:58:02 |
| | http://www.last.fm/user/Rahdek |
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| Imbattable Germany. June 05 2012 15:13. Posts 82 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 14:49 ThePurist wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 22:02 Imbattable wrote:
On June 04 2012 15:54 ThePurist wrote:Meh, I am always open to try new things but my firsthand experience was ultimately very disappointing. People make it out to be the holy grail of PC gaming audio. If it weren't the case I wouldn't rip on it so much but I enjoy ripping on the bandwagons :3 What can I say. You must understand that people who purchase online don't get to hear it before they buy it and once they get it, this kicks in overdrive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance and they must gloat/talk about how it is the best to justify it to themselves a la Head-Fi.
The thing is that the combination of a good set of cans together with a cheap mic will beat ANY "gaming headset" at the same point of price. Seriously, the sound quality you get out of of anything labelled "gaming" is totally NOT warranting the price tag associated with it. I think there is no "one headphone" to get - I have testet different entry level headphones (Superlux HD 681, HD-330, HD-669, Sennheiser HD 595) together with different mics (the infamous Zalman and some hama clip-on mic) and found the sound quality exceeding any gaming headset I ever heard (mostly stuff from Logitech, but also Sennheiser). Additional question: Has anyone tested the new Superlux HMD-660 yet? Seems like it could be a good buy for a closed-back headset solution, as it is not more expensive than the headphones it is based on (HD-660, basically another beyerdynamic clone).
Okay, challenge time: $15 price point. Not trying to be difficult but I genuinely want to see what can be had. I will offer the competition: + Show Spoiler +The Zalman mic is already $5-10 so I dunno man lol
I had this Logitech piece of crap, and it broke after like 4 months. Apparently prices in Germany and Canada are WAY different, as it had cost me about 30 Euro retail (i think the cheapest online price would match that, with shipping costs included).
Obviously you cannot get anything resembling "audiophile" with 15 $. If you only want to spend 15 $ on a headset, you might be in the wrong thread. 15 $ will not get you any good headset OR headphones, so get the most comfortable computer headset you can get and maybe think about increasing your budget
But if you take the new retail price of ~30 Euro for the Logitech, you can get a Superlux HD 681 (19,90 Eur) + any cheap mic (starting from 1 Eur, lets be generous and spend 5 Eur on it and get the Zalman). So you have ~25 Eur vs. 30 Eur and still better sound quality. Market prices may vary and being cheap will of course only get you so far with ANY solution.
But the argument still remains that headsets are overpriced compared to the cost of getting decent headphones and a mic. Additionally, a lot of peaple already HAVE more or less decent headphones - so there is no need to get a "gaming grade omfgR0XX0R headset"
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| ThePurist Canada. June 05 2012 15:38. Posts 669 | Profile Blog # |
I actually own the Logitech pair lol they were $15 and I have used them daily for Skype/gaming for about a year :3
I run it off my STX and get very impressive performance for $15 but for ~30 Euro ($40 CAD) I would not buy it lol it's too high for plastic.
You said any price point so I just called one out : "The thing is that the combination of a good set of cans together with a cheap mic will beat ANY "gaming headset" at the same point of price."
Why am I in the wrong thread I think I raised some valid points here and there (hopefully lol)
At the same time, here are a few I've owned/own now.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
and many many more that I've tested/sold/traded.
The $5 Zalman sounds terrible with all of them, so I really don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something here lol but I truly wish somebody would educate me.
1) I honestly don't believe headphones+mic > headset at equivalent price.
2) I don't see what's wrong with gaming headsets as I get great sound from it sounds like something in the $50 range.
3) If "Hi-fi" is what people consider to be great sound I don't understand why they praise the AD700+Zalman like no tomorrow. When it doesn't come anywhere close to the $350~400 cans.
In fact, it should be like Sony MDR-R10+Zalman? Senn. Orpheus+Zalman? I dunno.
According to the logic of the bandwagonners, there shouldn't even be a market for headsets because "low/mid range audio technica + clip on mic" owns EVERYTHING lol.
This sums up how I feel. [Warning: you may convulse at the stupidity]
+ Show Spoiler +
Gaming? Screw headsets bro, with the AD700+Zalman you can hear enemy footsteps with the super-extra-wide soundstage it's fuckin' magical!! No worries disturbing others tho cuz u'd already be too busy owning face
Oh you wanna fly a plane? Screw headsets bro, with the AD700+Zalman you don't even need active noise reduction just make sure your cockpit is soundproof ezpz
Commentating/broadcasting some shit? Screw headsets bro, with the AD700+Zalman you don't even need a condenser built-in cuz the clip on mic is already crazy sensitive!!
On the go with your iPhone? Screw IEMs bro, with the AD700+Zalman you can hear car sounds so you won't get hit by a car while you jam with your awesome ass cans!!
Oh you interpreting some high-profile ass shit? NP bro, AD700+Zalman is the way to go don't worry about the thin wires crapping out on you it's ... THE AD700+ZALMAN COMBO~!!! BEATS OUT ANYTHING ON THE MARKET AT LE PRICE POINT!!
Last edit: 2012-06-05 16:15:47 |
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| Imbattable Germany. June 05 2012 16:32. Posts 82 | Profile # |
Of course there are professional headsets for professional applications. Aviation, broadcasting, live performance with integrated monitoring, they all have specific use cases and requirements. Nobody states that there are no good products in these areas or products which are more useful in an integrated solution (i.e. a headset).
The problem is that in a consumer focussed product (in contrast to professional products), marketing buzzwords like "gaming" (after all, this is a SC2 community site) are used as an excuse to increase the price of a product without accompanying value increase.
The Zalman mic is just one of the more convenient solutions, there are a myriad of other cost-efficient solutions to bring sound into your PC.
The problem I have is that a decent headset is just to expensive for what it actually is - a headphone with a mic.
Consider the beyerdynamic MMX300 headset, which is one of the best headsets concerrning the sound quality you can get. It actually is a 32 Ohm DT770 (they use the same driver and casing, as anyone can check out on their spare parts section) with a mic and a USB soundcard, yet it costs 130 Eur more than just a DT770. 130 Eur for a microphone and a USB soundcard is a lot of money.
I'd say 15$ for the Logitec is a good buy (if you find them comfortable, which I did not particularly). I'd say 280 Eur for the MMX 300 is NOT a good buy in any case.
"Gaming? Screw headsets bro, with the AD700+Zalman you can hear enemy footsteps with the super-extra-wide soundstage it's fuckin' magical!!"
I do not know these particular cans but I can state that you can hear enemy footsteps just as good, if not better, than with a "gaming" headset. And when I am NOT owning faces with my 1337 skillz, I can actually enjoy listening to some music without my ears bleeding from the pain (slight exaggeration, I am not actually that audiophile;) )
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| rebdomine June 05 2012 21:50. Posts 1809 | Profile Blog # |
On June 04 2012 10:18 rebdomine wrote:
While we're talking about the Beyers, what are the differences between the sound signatures of the 770, 880, 990?
Still interested in anyone's opinion around here. |
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| Milkis June 05 2012 22:24. Posts 4776 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 14:46 ThePurist wrote:NuForce is a pretty shady company according to NwAvGuy: http://nwavguy.blogspot.ca/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.htmlHe was kicked out of Head-Fi cuz of NuForce/Schiit Audio lol and the mods wanted to protect their financial interests. Hopefully the icon hdp isn't bad
yeah i read that. i'm hoping they just made one shitty product though, since I did read enough reviews elsewhere to be okay with my purchase...
i was listening to the he500 with my PC (I don't even know what sound card this thing has actually), and it's really something and makes me realize that I need two of any one thing to really appreciate what something is good at and what something is bad at. Finally hearing what's so "muffled" about the mids in the m50s was quite an experience  Last edit: 2012-06-05 22:36:18 |
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| Myrmidon United States. June 05 2012 23:56. Posts 8482 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 22:24 Milkis wrote:yeah i read that. i'm hoping they just made one shitty product though, since I did read enough reviews elsewhere to be okay with my purchase...
Here's my reduced-length rant on most audio reviews:
Especially for non-headphones (speakers) gear, any differences tend to get exaggerated and blown out of proportion. The effect of everything that's not the transducers is fairly small unless there's a severe problem like 1) too much noise or 2) output impedance issues, so really, people should mostly be satisfied with whatever they get—especially if they bought it and are expecting something expensive to be better. The effects of expectation bias are often stronger than the differences between the actual gear, as has been demonstrated time and time again.
Almost nobody tests gear blindly in such a way to remove biases. And few take an easier, even more important first step: to do comparisons between gear at carefully-matched, equal volume levels. Small changes in volume (fractions of a dB) can easily change different perceptions of sound quality; louder usually sounds better. It's been frequently shown that even in a blinded scenario where people have no idea what they're listening to, if asked to determine which they prefer out of sound sample A and sound sample B—which are actually identical—the majority of the time they will pick A or B rather than no preference.
So buyer beware.
re: nuforce in general
this is not too flattering either (though it's of the Icon, the one with the mini speaker amp):
http://www.stereophile.com/content/nuforce-icon-usb-input-integrated-amplifier-measurements
Another product of theirs could be better though. When in doubt I'd advise sticking with those that actually know what they're doing, rather than hoping for something good, but w/e.
On a side note, I'm not sure I'd take NwAvGuy's account of what happened too seriously. Certainly the actions of head-fi moderation reflect very poorly on the site (and in general, they make posts disappear, so don't go looking for all evidence now), but his assessment of all motivations involved is probably not 100% accurate.
On June 05 2012 15:38 ThePurist wrote:
According to the logic of the bandwagonners, there shouldn't even be a market for headsets because "low/mid range audio technica + clip on mic" owns EVERYTHING lol.
Well, I've always said it depends on what your priorities are. If you want good audio playback quality for the price, most headsets don't provide that. There are often times other priorities though, and having the microphone be positioned well and not be a piece of crap, may actually be relevant.
On June 05 2012 16:32 Imbattable wrote:
Consider the beyerdynamic MMX300 headset, which is one of the best headsets concerrning the sound quality you can get. It actually is a 32 Ohm DT770 (they use the same driver and casing, as anyone can check out on their spare parts section) with a mic and a USB soundcard, yet it costs 130 Eur more than just a DT770. 130 Eur for a microphone and a USB soundcard is a lot of money.
Now that you bring it up, MMX2 sells for 80 USD, and it's a DT 231/235 (50 USD) with a USB soundcard and microphone, a pretty reasonable deal if you're okay with a supraaural design. They're just ripping people off on the MMX300.
On June 05 2012 14:57 Freeheals wrote:
I want a headphone that I can use next year during my freshman year of college without bothering my roommate from leaked sound and not being bothered by his noise, after doing some research and looking at isolation graphs on headfi and whatnot, I've come up with the akg k 550. Has anyone had these headphones? Can anyone recommend another solution for the isolation I need in that price range? $200-300
edit: obviously i'm looking for completely-around ear and closed back phones
Full size? Also Beyerdynamic DT 770, which has a more V-shaped frequency response. That's pretty much it.
On June 05 2012 21:50 rebdomine wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 10:18 rebdomine wrote:
While we're talking about the Beyers, what are the differences between the sound signatures of the 770, 880, 990?
Still interested in anyone's opinion around here.
I wonder who here has heard all three main models [Beyer 770 / 880 / 990], not to mention the different variants (not me). However, I can say that based on publicly-available data, all three have a relatively low amount of nonlinearities, so the THD is mostly low, there are no problematic resonances in the midrange and treble, and so on. For most headphones, the frequency response will tell you most of what you need to know about the sound signatures, and this is even more true for headphones with fewer nonlinearities. Just keep in mind when reading FR graphs, that different people have different measurement setups and normalize the raw data differently, so cross-comparisons are not valid:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads
http://doctorhead.ru/base_report
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=GR_Headphones&category=275
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| Milkis June 06 2012 00:26. Posts 4776 | Profile Blog # |
Here's my reduced-length rant on most audio reviews:
Especially for non-headphones (speakers) gear, any differences tend to get exaggerated and blown out of proportion. The effect of everything that's not the transducers is fairly small unless there's a severe problem like 1) too much noise or 2) output impedance issues, so really, people should mostly be satisfied with whatever they get—especially if they bought it and are expecting something expensive to be better. The effects of expectation bias are often stronger than the differences between the actual gear, as has been demonstrated time and time again.
Almost nobody tests gear blindly in such a way to remove biases. And few take an easier, even more important first step: to do comparisons between gear at carefully-matched, equal volume levels. Small changes in volume (fractions of a dB) can easily change different perceptions of sound quality; louder usually sounds better. It's been frequently shown that even in a blinded scenario where people have no idea what they're listening to, if asked to determine which they prefer out of sound sample A and sound sample B—which are actually identical—the majority of the time they will pick A or B rather than no preference.
So buyer beware.
Yeah. I basically decided in HE-500 after reading this. This guy's reviews seemed to be okay.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparing-world-class-headphones
I'm pretty sure I jumped the gun on the dac/amp since that was nearly completely impulse. I'll probably end up getting another amp at a future point so I can actually compare these (and probably another headphones at a similar price range that are more flavored like an Audio Technica, welp) I promised myself I'll stop buying headphones after this, but after listening to them, I don't see myself stopping. Welp.Last edit: 2012-06-06 00:29:21 |
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