| Dudemeister Sweden. November 15 2010 09:20. Posts 305 | Profile # |
I'm most intrested in a discussion of the viability of this build. And what matchups it could be used in.
It was developed with CarbonTwelves protoss build order optimizer. So a lot of credit goes to him.
The goal is to have push similar to the 7rr but with protoss.
Witht his build you have 5 stalkers and a warp in pylon with warp tech next to their base in 5 minutes.
The build flows extremely well and is quite deadly, but just like the 7rr it sacrifices a lot of economy. It's close to an all in, you have to do a lot of damage or win directly.
Pros:
- Hits before a 4gate is finished, most toss players will only have1 stalker 1 zealot vs your 5 stalkers.
- Hits before banshees are out.
- Defends a 7rr quite well
- Second warp in pylon is placed in their base, reinforcing a lot faster than a 7rr.
- Because of the warp in pylon it works on larger maps
Cons:
- Sacrifices a lot of economy
- Easily scoutable
- ???
Build:
8 Pylon
8 Gateway
1 chrono on nexus for probes
10 Assimilator > +3
11 Cybernetics Core
12 Gateway
12 warp gate research - use 4 chronoboosts on the research
12 stalker
14 stalker
16 stalker
18 pylon
stalkers++
When your first stalker is finished, take the probe and the stalker and walk to you opponents base and place the pylon.
As the pylon is warping in your two next stalkers will arrive there and your warp gate research finished and the two warp gates ready to go. Warp in an additional 2 stalkers.
You will now have 5 stalkers outside of his base and be able to warp in more stalkers as you fight.
If you try this build order you will notice how smooth it is, everything is aligned perfectly resource wise. Executed perfectly it should be done by 4:47, my best one so far is 4:59.
Replays:
5 stalker rush vs 1700 zerg
Alternative version with more economy(Thanks to Hurkyl):
9 Pylon
9 Gateway
10 Probe*
11 Assimilator > +3
13 Cybernetics Core
15 Gateway
16 WarpGate****
16 Stalker
18 Pylon
19 Stalker[2]
24 Pylon
26 Transform to Warpgate[2]
26 Stalker[2]
This version is about 8 seconds slower but has 5 more probes, more in line with the 7rr.Last edit: 2010-11-17 00:03:31 |
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| Syben United States. November 15 2010 09:27. Posts 512 | Profile # |
| Usually by the 5 min mark i have a sentry zealot and stalker out, depends on which build i go of course. I think its doable on certain maps and depends on the users micro skills. I agree with your con on it being easily scoutable, if i see a 10gateway or earlier i always expect a quick rush and do what i can to counter it. |
| | Definitely gonna switch to G, the only race I havent played yet. - TLO |
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| DawgEm United States. November 15 2010 09:28. Posts 69 | Profile # |
I'm wondering what level you are playing at so I can not get roflstomped by people when i try this. Although i'll try it in customs before I really tell you anything I find wrong with it. I think it would even put good pressure on a Terran who is going for a 1-1-1 build as he probably wont have many units at his front but if there is a bunker I wont be too happy that I sacrificed all the economy using this build.
You cant even tell me to scout if he's turtling in or what not because If i were to go 8pylon 8gate then it would be way too early to even know what he's going for and I will already have been committed to such a build where if I dont do damage, I may as well gg and leave. I'm at 1800 diamond. |
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| Fleet 9 United States. November 15 2010 09:29. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| I think that the problem will be that it's easily scoutable. Depending on the possible "counters". |
| | Things are only as offensive as you let them be, |
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| Fruscainte November 15 2010 09:33. Posts 4041 | Profile Blog # |
| Definitely going to try this in PvP, loving some new Cheesy play. |
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| Reborn8u United States. November 15 2010 09:37. Posts 1552 | Profile Blog # |
| Have you tried this build with the 10/10 opener? So it doesn't sacrifice economy as much. |
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| junemermaid United States. November 15 2010 09:37. Posts 981 | Profile # |
| an 8 gate? if other player doesn't adjust their build order when seeing that, then shit, they deserve to lose. |
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 SubPointOA United States. November 15 2010 09:41. Posts 183 | Profile # |
On November 15 2010 09:33 Fruscainte wrote:
Definitely going to try this in PvP, loving some new Cheesy play.
yeah even some diamonds only react to 2 gate, cannon rush, and void rays. this may actually work since im in 1400s |
| | Just stick with the flow to rock the whole globe |
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| iNdo-Man United States. November 15 2010 09:42. Posts 191 | Profile Blog # |
| replay please if you have a decent one |
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| Dudemeister Sweden. November 15 2010 09:49. Posts 305 | Profile # |
On November 15 2010 09:28 DawgEm wrote:
I'm wondering what level you are playing at so I can not get roflstomped by people when i try this. Although i'll try it in customs before I really tell you anything I find wrong with it. I think it would even put good pressure on a Terran who is going for a 1-1-1 build as he probably wont have many units at his front but if there is a bunker I wont be too happy that I sacrificed all the economy using this build.
You cant even tell me to scout if he's turtling in or what not because If i were to go 8pylon 8gate then it would be way too early to even know what he's going for and I will already have been committed to such a build where if I dont do damage, I may as well gg and leave. I'm at 1800 diamond.
I'm 1400 diamond with 300 bonus pool, playing all races. The thing about scouting is that they will spot gateway, cyber and gas before the scout is killed, and atleast as long is this isn't popular, it's kind of hard to know what you're up too. I guess you could fake a double gas just to confuse him even more?
So lets say its a close distance map PvP, they send their scout out after the 9 pylon, arrive at your base when at what? 11-12 food? Is that early enough to stop it? Zealots cant touch stalkers if you micro correctly. Cannons would kill it though.
And if you're trying it out. practice a few times on Yabot, it's actually not that easy to pull off, and it requires some good micro and multitasking to warp in, attack move attack move, warp in, build additional pylon etc. A lot more fun than 7rr  |
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| storm44 November 15 2010 09:49. Posts 1271 | Profile Blog # |
I think even if the guy only had like 2-3 zealots + a sentry he could defend with probes
would love to see replays tho |
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| Chronicle November 15 2010 09:52. Posts 161 | Profile # |
I can see this working on larger maps where they are unable to spot the 8 gate timing, or on other maps if you fake a proxy (Which you lot call "Maka Rax", screw maka, I been doing it since beta and even got meme'd for it).
Along time ago on steeps I used to do this with 1 gate zealot sending all probes with him once I had 200 minerals spare, and just went after pylons, letting probes die to free the supply to get the 3rd zealot out. Timing for this is also an 8 gate, tried sooner gates but all gates prior to an 8 gate have the first zealot come out the same time as an 8 gate due to lack of minerals. |
| | Liquid'Tyler is short for Liquid'Tylenol |
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| KaoReal Canada. November 15 2010 09:53. Posts 255 | Profile # |
| Well I took this build into customs, and the only person it worked on was a bronze terran. Vs. the protoss, he managed to get an immortal out, which i killed, but he took out too many of the initial stalkers. Vs. zerg they just made zerglings off a FE. Theres no way to micro against them without losing the proxy pylon from what I can tell. The terran rallied rines at me which was no problem. Then i got to his ramp and he had 2 rauders which 5 stalkers clean up easliy. |
| | Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forward |
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| NeoSlicerZ Ireland. November 15 2010 09:54. Posts 255 | Profile Blog # |
| This sounds like an extreme version of the dual stalker opening, must give it a try. Anything to avoid colossi gheyness. |
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| Battousai13 United States. November 15 2010 09:54. Posts 571 | Profile # |
Have you considered 10 Pylon/Gateway/Gas? I use that opening whenever I need to get a super early Stalker. I'm not sure how this would throw off your timing though. But, it would give you a boost in economy. Maybe enough to eke out a third Gateway?
I kind of imagine this being a super aggressive version of Nazgul's Blink Stalkers play. |
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| DragonDefonce United States. November 15 2010 09:57. Posts 782 | Profile Blog # |
| any sort of scouting would shut this down.... thats why every cheese needs to have a layer or two of deception, something that this lacks. |
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| Dudemeister Sweden. November 15 2010 10:04. Posts 305 | Profile # |
| Uploaded a replay vs a Zerg I just played, please excuse my poor play I'm a bit rusty with Toss, played zerg the last weeks. |
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| creamwolf United States. November 15 2010 10:04. Posts 46 | Profile # |
I tried this to some variation ( 1500 diamond, but i play vs 1700-1900 ), i lost too all but 1 really really really really nooby terran that built 3 supply depots at the beginning -_-.
EDIT : doesn't work vs zerg, they always get speedlings in time.Last edit: 2010-11-15 10:16:43 |
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| Dudemeister Sweden. November 15 2010 10:05. Posts 305 | Profile # |
On November 15 2010 09:57 DragonDefonce wrote:
any sort of scouting would shut this down.... thats why every cheese needs to have a layer or two of deception, something that this lacks.
I totally agree, thats why I need your help to refine this |
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| McMonty Canada. November 15 2010 10:14. Posts 379 | Profile # |
On November 15 2010 10:04 creamwolf wrote:
I tried this to some variation ( 1500 diamond, but i play vs 1700-1900 ), i lost too all but 1 really really really really nooby terran that built 3 supply depots at the beginning -_-.
I call BS. No way that one of your 1700-1900 level opponents opened 3 supply depots. |
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