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| Tooplark United States. November 19 2010 14:01. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
![[image loading]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2rdi2af.jpg)
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Swain_The_Master_Tactician
+ Show Spoiler [Patch Notes] +v1.0.0.121 - 2011-07-08
Ravenous Flock now heals Swain for 75% of damage dealt versus champions, and 25% versus minions
v1.0.0.120 - 2011-06-22
Ravenous Flock now heals Swain for 50% of the actual damage he deals (instead of 50% of the raw damage he deals), but the heal is not reduced if the damage is shielded
v1.0.0.107 - 2010-12-14
Carrion Renewal now restores mana instantly
v1.0.0.105 - 2010-11-15
Decrepify leash range slightly increased
Torment range increased to 625 from 600
Ravenous Flock cooldown decreased to 10 seconds from 15 seconds
Updated Swain's recommended items
v1.0.0.103 - 2010-10-18
Decrepify
Ability power ratio increased to 0.9 from 0.75
Fixed a bug where Decrepify would slow through Highlander or Ragnarok
Fixed a bug where the damage portion sometimes would not stop after leaving the area
Nevermore ability power ratio increased to 0.7 from 0.5
Torment damage increased to 75/115/155/195/235 from 72/110/148/186/224
Torment ability power ratio increased to 0.8 from 0.6
Carrion Renewal regen increased to 300% from 250%
+ Show Spoiler [Swain's skills] +statistics courtesy of leagueoflegends.wikia.com![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/images/5/5c/CarrionRenewal.jpg) Passive: Carrion Renewal Whenever Swain kills an enemy unit, he recovers 9 (+1 per level) mana. This is what gives Swain a lot of his staying power. Pretty simple. Learn to last hit and you don't need much mana regen. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/images/e/e6/Decrepify.jpg) Q: Decrepify (also known as Laserbird) Swain sends his raven to cripple an enemy, creating a tether between the enemy and the raven, which stays on the same position Swain was upon cast. Over the next 3 seconds, the target takes damage each second and is slowed. If enemies walk out of the tether, the effect ends immediately. Cooldown: 8 seconds Range: 550 Leash range: 900 (estimate) Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 mana Magic Damage Per Second: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+0.3 per ability power) Slow: 20 / 23 / 26 / 29 / 32 % Inexpensive, good damage gains with levels, and really frustrating for people trying to chase you or get out of close range. Casts almost instantly, so you can safely Q people while running away. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/images/d/de/Nevermove.jpg) W: Nevermove Swain marks a target area. After a short delay, mighty talons grab hold of enemy units, dealing damage and rooting them for 2 seconds. Range: 900 Radius: 250 - 275 (estimate) Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds Magic Damage: 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 / 240 (+0.7 per ability power) Horrible cooldown at low levels, and the mana cost is too high to justify in lane most of the time. If you're desperate, this can be a long range farming tool, but usually you should pick up just one point in this for ganks (both yours and your enemy's). ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/images/c/c5/Torment.jpg) E: Torment Swain afflicts his target, dealing damage to them over time and causing them to take increased damage from Swain's attacks for 4 seconds. Damage increase applies to summoner spells and items used by Swain. Cooldown: 10 seconds Range: 625 Cost: 65 / 70 / 75 / 80 / 85 mana Total Magic Damage: 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+0.8 per ability power) Extra Damage Taken: 8 / 11 / 14 / 17 / 20 % This is where most of Swain's damage comes from. The damage increase boosts Swain's autoattacks, his other abilities, Ignite, Deathfire Grasp, Lizard buff... It's a cheap, guaranteed nuke that gives you most of your lane domination and should be maxed first every game. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/images/d/d3/RavenousFlock.jpg) R: Ravenous Flock (Toggle) Swain transforms into the form of a raven. During this time up to 3 lesser ravens strike out at nearby enemies each second, one raven per enemy. Swain is healed for 75% the damage dealt to champions and by 25% of the damage dealt to minions and monsters. The cost to sustain Ravenous Flock increases every second. Initial cost: 25 mana Cost increase per second: 5/7/9 mana per second per second Cooldown: 10 seconds Range: 700 (estimate) This is what makes Swain Swain. The healing has overall been nerfed, so now it IS possible to force Swain to recall. However, with careful positioning in fights (and also in ganks) you should almost never die. This continues functioning through the Zhonya's active, so you get two free seconds of regeneration. Combine with Quicksilver Sash for an easy SAFE button.
Pre-game setup:
Masteries are a choice between 21 defense and 21 utility. This is mostly a matter of personal preference - utility gives you cdr, more Ignites, longer blue buff, and faster level 6; defense makes you much bulkier.
Red runes are magic penetration without many other options. Yellow runes can be armor, scaling hp, scaling hp regen, dodge, or scaling mana regen. Armor is my preference. For blues, take scaling AP, armor, scaling mana regen, scaling magic resist, or flat CDR. I use scaling magic resist, since my build is fairly light on MR. Quintessences are the most varied, and just about anything already mentioned will work. The best choices are movespeed, magic penetration, armor and flat AP.
Summoner spells are Ghost or Flash and Ignite. Ghost vs Flash is personal preference; you need at least one. Ignite is non-negotiable. Not only is it practically necessary for someone with as much DoT as Swain, but it's also amplified by Torment, meaning it's a 600 true damage nuke late game.
Items:
What items you buy at any point depends largely on what enemy champions are most threatening and how fed/farmed you are. With that said, here are my recommendations:
Come to lane with a Doran's Shield or Doran's Ring. The Shield is my preference, since Swain's passive gives you the mana you need.
The HotshotGG opening is Faerie Charm, 6 hp pots and 2 mana pots into Philo Stone. Less health, but the pots make up for that quickly. I haven't played this myself.
Your second item should be Tear or Catalyst.
- Catalyst is immediately safer, lets you boss your lane around more, and builds into a lot of useful things.
- Tear of the Goddess is riskier, but a charged Tear will give you several life-saving seconds longer to ult in teamfights. Archangels is also a wonderful lategame item.
Your core AP items are Deathcap and Hourglass. The order in which you get them is primarily determined by the enemy team. Hourglass if they have champions like Kennen, Vladimir or Nunu whose ults often need dodging; also Hourglass if you need the armor. Deathcap if you can afford it.
Late game, upgrade Catalyst to Banshee's Veil and Tear to Archangel's. Pick up Tear if you went Cata first (you can do this post Deathcap, too, if you feel the lack of mana) and Banshee's Veil if you went Tear. The importance of Banshee's is also heavily dependent on the enemy team - get it to stop things like Ashe arrow, Amumu bandage/ult, Blitzcrank pulls, and strong initiation in general.
The core items should be supplemented/replaced with the following
Guardian Angel if you are public enemy number 1. Never buy this before Hourglass.
Spirit Visage as a catchup item or if your team has lots of heals they want to use on you.
Quicksilver Sash to deal with pesky suppression, ignite and other nuisances. This and Hourglass combine to make you truly frustrating to deal with.
Mejai's Soulstealer is a nice late game item if you aren't getting crushed in teamfights, and a nice early game item if you are dominating everything. Don't buy it too early though. It's usually better to get Deathcap a little faster than to get this.
Void Staff should show up as your sixth item, if not before, especially if the enemy team is tanky.
Skills:
Maxing ult is your highest priority, of course.
Of Swain's basic skills, Torment should be maxed unless you need to max Nevermove and Laserbird to win lanes. Torment is where the vast majority of Swain's damage comes from.
For Laserbird and Nevermove, you have some choices.
Maxing Laserbird gives you the most reliable damage, at the expense of some CC.
One point in Nevermove but otherwise maxing Laserbird is the best option, though you can't throw out Nevermove wildly.
2-3 poins in Laserbird, then maxing Nevermove is better when you need Laserbird to dominate your lane but really like Nevermove. The shorter cooldown is extremely noticeable.
Finally, maxing Nevermove should only be done if you are in a lane where landing good Laserbirds is difficult.
Swain in Lane:
Before level 6, you have no health regen advantages at all. You do have nigh-unlimited mana as long as you can last hit and stay in creep range, so I like to open Doran's Shield and be a fat meaty brick.
Swain in a duo is about as strong as Cho'gath, but this gimps him mid- and late-game with his lower levels and reduced farm. Try at least to duo with someone who has reliable CC, and max Nevermove and Torment.
Harass people with QE. Your casting time is minimal and you have 650 range, so most heroes can't stop you. Swain hard counters almost every tanky melee, since they usually have to eat an entire Laserbird if they want to last hit.
Against ranged AD, try and calculate how well you trade against them. Don't get too aggressive, since if they don't force you out before 6, you become a godlike force of laning. Laserbird is less effective, especially against those with a blink (Tristana, Ezreal, et cetera). I rarely encounter solo top ranged AD though so you should be fine.
Against nukers, you outdamage 95% of them at level 1, thanks to Torment boosting autoattack damage. You may need to max Nevermove to last hit safely. Try to last till 6, because you basically autowin then.
Once you hit 6, push the lane out when you get the chance and buy Tear, Catalyst or Spirit Visage. You now are immovable from lane short of mad ganks or possibly Vlad or something. Now that creep healing is reduced, you aren't quite as godlike, but you still heal up quickly enough that you shouldn't be in any danger ever. Your goal is to farm up an Hourglass or Deathcap before teamfights start.
Swain in Teamfights:
Your priorities are, in order from most to least important:
1) stop their assassins/tanks from getting to your squishies
2) draw fire
3) stay alive
4) throw birds at as many enemy champs as you can
5) DoT down squishies
0) /all CAWCAWCAWCAWCAWCAW
Try not to turn on ult until you've started to take some damage - it really doesn't do very much damage until you have ~200 AP and it WILL suck up a ton of mana if you aren't paying attention. You want to be able to activate Zhonyas and have it last for the full two seconds when you're low health. Positioning for this is very important - it's tough to hit only the champs you want to with it so make sure you know the birds' range. (It's actually quite generous - you don't need to hug them Garen-style.)
In this thread:
Page 2: discussion of how to lane vs Swain.Last edit: 2011-07-21 03:15:46 |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| oberon United States. November 19 2010 23:05. Posts 1041 | Profile # |
| Given that Swain's AP ratios are basically poo, is Zhonya's really worth it? Why not do something like SV/Warmog's/Soul Shroud or WotA and at least provide some utility for your team? I guess I could see abyssal for the mres and team-helping aura, but pure AP items like void staff seem silly. Alternatively, you could go even tankier with SV/Mog's/FoN/GA, which gives you pretty good regen even without your ult on. |
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| Celestial United States. November 20 2010 03:05. Posts 395 | Profile Blog # |
| Actually, Swain's AP ratios are pretty good: Q 0.9, W 0.7, E 0.8, R 0.2. Of course, his ult makes up for the worse ratio for hitting three times every second. |
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| Tooplark United States. November 20 2010 03:31. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
Zhonya is for the 2 seconds of invulnerability during which your birds keep attacking and you keep healing. Also, remember that E boosts the damage from all your skills. Basically, rush Zhonyas for the utility.
Warmogs no because Swain doesn't farm particularly well and doesn't really need health or hp regen.
GA is good, FoN is mostly a waste (QSS/Bveil for mres), Leviathan and Mejais are surprisingly good because you get lots of assists generally. I'm still working out exactly how to play him though, so don't take this as word of god. |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| myopia United States. November 20 2010 03:49. Posts 2260 | Profile Blog # |
| You should mention that Chalice is broken right now (passive stacks) so get 3-4 of them and you'll never have to turn your ult off. Ever. |
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| Tooplark United States. November 20 2010 05:18. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
haha I was about to. It's SO FUNNY. You kill a minion and for the next 3 seconds +1000 mp5 or so
After empirical testing, chalice sucks on Swain. What's the problem with Chalice? You're spending 900 gold on mres and mregen. Does 4 chalices address that problem? Nope. Just stick to SV Zhonyas.Last edit: 2010-11-20 05:58:26 |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| STS17 United States. November 20 2010 07:02. Posts 1398 | Profile # |
Really, Z-Ring -> SV -> Mejais (maybe) -> More tankness is all you need on Swain. If you get blue you can keep your ult on for a surprising amount of time while your build gives you good mitigation.
If you decide to play Swain, you aren't a damage dealer you're tank. I can't stress that enough to people.
I do like your guide, but I wouldn't say the champion sucks |
| | Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective |
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| oberon United States. November 20 2010 13:08. Posts 1041 | Profile # |
On November 20 2010 03:05 Celestial wrote:
Actually, Swain's AP ratios are pretty good: Q 0.9, W 0.7, E 0.8, R 0.2. Of course, his ult makes up for the worse ratio for hitting three times every second.
Ah, I misread Q and thought it was 0.3 (it's 0.3 PER SECOND for 3 seconds!). I also was apparently out of it this morning when I checked his champ page. His AP ratios are:
Q: 0.0035
W: 0.0029
E: 0.0034
R: 0.0022
Which are actually really, really high. So AP stacking is pretty worth it. |
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| Tooplark United States. November 21 2010 06:13. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
Especially when you consider that Torment amplifies damage by 20%, so for 3 seconds the AP ratios are 1.08 .84 .96 .24(/second, x3).
From my further Swaining, I have determined that Archangels might be a good followup to Zhonyas. Otherwise you have to be extremely cautious with your ult. A boosted mana pool and imba regen is nice. Chalice is the other item I'm considering to solve this, but SV Boots and Chalice is half my inventory for ~3k gold.
The downside to Archangels is that Swain is really slow at charging Tear.
Also, I think Swain can beat or at least break even against Sion solo top. Torment/Lazerbird will pop the shield of an equal level Sion and do a little damage beyond. Of course, I haven't played any really good Sions yet. None of them have really abused brush camping. But Sion will push a lot more than Swain will.
Also, at level 6 Swain can stay in lane forever. Zhonyas Ho! |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| oberon United States. November 21 2010 09:00. Posts 1041 | Profile # |
On November 21 2010 06:13 Tooplark wrote:
Especially when you consider that Torment amplifies damage by 20%, so for 3 seconds the AP ratios are 1.08 .84 .96 .24(/second, x3).
That doesn't really make sense. Torment makes your skills better, but it makes them better no matter why they're good. For example, CDR works just as well with Torment as AP does. |
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| Tooplark United States. November 21 2010 10:01. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
| Yeah... but when you're comparing Swain's AP ratios to "good" theoretical AP ratios, then you have to take Torment's damage amplification into account. |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| oberon United States. November 21 2010 11:43. Posts 1041 | Profile # |
On November 21 2010 10:01 Tooplark wrote:
Yeah... but when you're comparing Swain's AP ratios to "good" theoretical AP ratios, then you have to take Torment's damage amplification into account.
A good AP ratio is a per-AP-point bonus which is high relative to the base damage of the spell. For example, a +2/AP ratio is crap on a 1200 damage spell. You're better off with CDR/utility.
Swain's AP ratios are quite good, because he has two that are over .003. You can do the math on other heroes -- that's quite rare. |
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| Tooplark United States. November 21 2010 15:11. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
On November 21 2010 11:43 oberon wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 10:01 Tooplark wrote:
Yeah... but when you're comparing Swain's AP ratios to "good" theoretical AP ratios, then you have to take Torment's damage amplification into account.
A good AP ratio is a per-AP-point bonus which is high relative to the base damage of the spell. For example, a +2/AP ratio is crap on a 1200 damage spell. You're better off with CDR/utility. Swain's AP ratios are quite good, because he has two that are over .003. You can do the math on other heroes -- that's quite rare.
This isn't entirely true - you have to consider periods of utility. For instance, cooldown reduction on a ~20 second skill won't really help because you won't really get two uses per teamfight, but the 8 seconds saved won't be a big deal generally. It's not quite as linear of a relationship as aspd/damage on a DPS. Point taken, though - but swain has pretty low CDs as is so I dunno what's more effective. |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| gtrsrs United States. November 22 2010 09:45. Posts 4410 | Profile # |
just tested quadruple chalice on swaim
combined with blue buff, i was able to withstand a focus fire from a 4man gank for like 10 seconds while i waited for my team to arrive to help, while dealing a surprising amount of damage back
pretty op
go meki->double chalice->mercs->chalice->visage->zhonya->armor item and you're set for the game |
| | TL-LoL's #1 Ahri, even better than Soloside. www.velocityesports.com |
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| Tooplark United States. February 10 2011 04:14. Posts 1728 | Profile # |
Back to Swain, and back with more thoughts on #2 BEST BIRD.
Most hasn't changed. 9/21/0 or 0/21/9. I now like Sapphire + 2 pots opening for a faster Catalyst, though you'll have to be a little more careful.
There are two 'paths' that I feel are more or less equally valid
Catalyst, for a quick RoA, then Deathcap or Hourglass
Visage, Tear, Hourglass, Archangel's
In either case you generally want Merc Treads; Sorcs and Lucids are valid alternatives but usually inferior. Standard caster boots-theory.
Other items that are good later considerations are DFG, GA, BVeil, QSS, and WotA.
Now the advantages and disadvantages of each: Catalyst is still pretty much the best laning item in the game. RoA will give you cost-efficient bulk and AP, as well as an acceptable mana pool. Deathcap is still imba and will make you do ALL THE DAMAGE, but Hourglass will make you much more resilient to those nasty phys. deeps and the active is glorious.
On the other hand, Spirit Visage looks like a perfect item for you. More heals while ulting, more bulk, and a side of CDR. The disadvantage to SV, I've found, is that you don't have any mana pool at all. That's why you need a tear. Now, however, you're quite short on AP. It's your call whether you need more damage now or the Zhonya's active and armor.
Generally, pick the first when the team could use another nukerish type, when you're curbstomping noobs, or when you have the time to farm a lot. The second is much more tanky but gets AP 1k gold later. You won't be putting out the hurt, but you're better able to offtank and hold people off your carry.
A brief list of notable lane matchups:
Sion loses or ties with you. He has to stun to get shield off, thanks to tether, and maxing EQ lets you pop his shield before he reaches you most of the time. You win the mana efficiency war and you can kite him around indefinitely.
Garen beats you. Either you have to root him every time he spins (maxing the rather suboptimal WQ) or lose 1/4 your health for not that much of his. Also his passive is ridiculous. I need to test this more and see if it can be won.
Most melee champs lose to you thanks to birdkiting. I think Xin could beat Swain but I'm not sure. Not many people will let me solo top :'(
Cho'gath loses to you unless he can consistently hit ruptures. Silence will hurt, but if he gets offensive you can EQ him. Again, I need to fight a good Cho (5HIT <3) and see which way it goes.
Ranged carries generally beat you. At the very least it's hard to harass them. Ashe will just volley at you and you can't get close enough to bird her for long. Maxing WE is your best bet, or giving up and going QW.
Badimir will get zoned so hard solo top. Why would you put him solo top. I don't know if they were just terrible (which they were) or if it's really a hard matchup for Vlad, but they got curbstomped.
Runes: I've switched to flat armor with mp5 blues. Mostly because that's my Taric page. Still fiddling with these (will mpen boost damage enough? will mp5 yellow and mr blue be better?).
Surviving with Swain: There is an incredible urge to 1v5 the enemy team all the time as Swain. Fed Swain is definitely top 10 most frustrating heroes to fight (at minimum, fed Nasus, fed Mundo, fed Vladimir, fed Poppy, fed Olaf, fed Xin, and fed Irelia are worse). You should try to stick sort of near your carry, though. First, he should be safer than your team. Second, you're an offtank that doesn't have the combination of speed survivability and cc-resistance to actually get to the enemy squishies. Third, if their anticarries get close, you can Q them for much longer. Do not miss W. Combo it with guaranteed stuns. Use it like Rupture, really. Try to ensure whoever you're hitting with your skills is Tormented at the time - not a problem for Q but harder with W. Your ult is the hardest skill to use well, since it's a serious source of damage but also survivability and the cooldown/manacost is enough that you can't frivolously toggle it/keep it on all the time. Don't get right next to people, but stay about 400 range away in the direction they most want to go. Watch out for CC because nothing sucks more than being bursted down before you can turn ult on. |
| | WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW |
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| Phrost United States. March 10 2011 09:34. Posts 2671 | Profile Blog # |
| on a side note, swain absolutely crushes singed |
| | iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_ |
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| mrgerry United States. March 17 2011 13:21. Posts 1074 | Profile # |
Swain's been the latest of my heroes to give a shot and he's a rather hard hero to itemize for because you benefit from both tank and AP items really well.
Currently I been going:
Cata - Boots - Tear - Rod --- CORE
Veil-Deathcap-Arch-Void --- Leaves me low on armor but gives me near best magic damage
Veil-FrozenHeart-Arch-Void --- pretty damn tank misses out on AP from deathcap
I've tried the pure AP hourglass builds but I'm not a fan of it as Swain's strength lies in his ability to sit in fights forever and be a huge dick. Other than that I'm still working on different ways and will update with what works.
Runes: Flat HP Quints, flat Armor, MagicResist/lvl, MagicPen Red 9/0/21
Pretty set on those. Need armor versus aggressive ranged carries and i love magic resist. Tried out 9/21/0 that loco said and couldn't stand how short my blue buffs felt and missed the cdr. |
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| ZERG_RUSSIAN March 17 2011 14:05. Posts 5093 | Profile Blog # |
Replace Deathcap with Hourglass in first build
profit |
| | The Real 5HITCOMBO (rather jungle any day 420 noscope mlg plays yolo blaze it) |
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 NeoIllusions United States. March 17 2011 14:13. Posts 17865 | Profile Blog # |
Agreed. Zhonya's need to be a part of Swain's arsenal.
I'd drop either Archangel's or Void for Zhonya's from the first build. Again, the idea of Swain is to outlast everyone else. Zhonya's invul lets him dodge some really threatening ultimates. |
| | For the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Twitter: @NeoIllusions | Jinteki |
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| dogen Belgium. May 17 2011 00:40. Posts 102 | Profile # |
| Can anyone confirm if torment's 20% damage increase really applies to all swain's sources of damage, or only to his physical attacks? It seems as if posts in this thread assume that it applies to AP as well, while the description only states the damage increase on Swain's 'attacks'. |
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