The Ultimate Mouse Thread

I posted this thread and it got closed, my bad for not being aware of this thread.

Please read the post in the link below before voting on the poll.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294188

Here is the poll again:

Poll: Which mouse is the best for SC?

Spectre (6)

60%

Mamba (3)

30%

Naga Epic (1)

10%

10 total votes

Your vote: Which mouse is the best for SC?

(Vote): Naga Epic
(Vote): Mamba
(Vote): Spectre

Thank you for your help. Please explain why you voted by posting.

“There are two kinds of people in this world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.” - Clint Eastwood

edc United States. December 14 2011 14:33. Posts 665

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Bumping (authorized by Chill).

“There are two kinds of people in this world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.” - Clint Eastwood

TheToast United States. December 16 2011 15:22. Posts 4804

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On December 14 2011 14:33 edc wrote:
Bumping (authorized by Chill).

yesss.... moar bumps muahahahaha *cough* *hack* *cough*

Anyway, I think if you want to get some good advice, you should add some additional info about your preferences. That is, do you have small hands, do you do other types of gaming (high level FPS gamers often prefer to have lower CPI), are you left handed, etc. etc.

Also, I really need to add the Naga into the OP. Tomorrow, I promise!

There are also two links in the OP to reviews on TL for the Razer Specter (they're sort of hidden, I'll change that too):

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173974
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173986

There's also a good write-up on Gizmodo comparing the mamba to MS's sidewinder:

http://gizmodo.com/5209312/razer-mamba-vs-sidewinder-x8-wireless-gaming-mice-review

I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.

edc United States. December 16 2011 15:34. Posts 665

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Thank you so much for your post. I am looking forward to your edit of your OP on the Naga.

To give additional information, I am right-handed and am looking for a mouse that will help me in Starcraft specifically, though if it can help in Minecraft and FPS games such as CS that would be fantastic too. I have medium-sized hands, and (I think) I use the palm grip.

“There are two kinds of people in this world, those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.” - Clint Eastwood

ThatBronyGuy United States. December 17 2011 00:57. Posts 169

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Hey everyone, just wanted to point out that on Amazon today starting at 8:00 PM. PST there is a note about having the lowest price ever for a Razer gaming mouse. For anyone looking for a new mouse, this could be a great opportunity to pick something up while saving some coin.

Here is the link to the gold box page: http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27

Just have to go down their menu a bit before you get to the 8:00 hour.

Shikyo Finland. December 17 2011 02:12. Posts 20270

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On December 13 2011 14:49 edc wrote:
I posted this thread and it got closed, my bad for not being aware of this thread.

Please read the post in the link below before voting on the poll.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294188

Here is the poll again:

Poll: Which mouse is the best for SC?

Spectre (6)

60%

Mamba (3)

30%

Naga Epic (1)

10%

10 total votes

Your vote: Which mouse is the best for SC?

(Vote): Naga Epic
(Vote): Mamba
(Vote): Spectre

Thank you for your help. Please explain why you voted by posting.

How about including fingergrip mice? What kind of a serious player palms SC2 anyway?

Oh I guess spectre is kind of fingergrip despite the awful shape, but those all imo suck for SC2, especially the starcraft II products in specific are completely horrendous value for money and should never be recommended.

Also for you specifically mamba probably, I still hold the opinion that it's impossible to keep up high APM with accurate clicks if you palm grip SC2, haven't yet been proven wrong

Last edit: 2011-12-17 02:15:13

"I shall wait for you in death's halls, my Love (love love love love~)"

brachester Australia. December 20 2011 01:28. Posts 1751

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yo guys, need help with choosing a new mouse since the scroll in my old one starts failing me. I need a mouse that have standard shape and button layouts (e.g. Deathdadder is a perfect example) and it has high responsive performance. Also it need to be wired. I don't care about the price because this is a treat for myself finishing my finals. I'm currently thinking between Razer Deathadder and Steelseries Sensei. If you guys have any other suggestion pls do tell me.
Big cheers.

I hate all this singing

Cyro United Kingdom. December 20 2011 02:43. Posts 5782

Profile Blog #

Poll: Which mouse is the best for SC?

Spectre (6)

60%

Mamba (3)

30%

Naga Epic (1)

10%

10 total votes

Your vote: Which mouse is the best for SC?

(Vote): Naga Epic
(Vote): Mamba
(Vote): Spectre

Thank you for your help. Please explain why you voted by posting.

Both are bad. The Mamba is extremely overpriced, is heavier because of wireless support, and im not sure if it has the same acceleration problems of many other razer mice, but ive heard specifically that the deathadder and the abyssus are the only ones without them.

The Spectre has a focus on APM lighting and i think you pay a premium for the starcraft 2 branding, note that the APM lighting is tied into the game (a friend of mine that uses the banshee headset tells me that the lighting gets turned on in the driver every time he launches sc2, even though he disables it all the time, and he cant find a way to turn it off) so this means that your ingame APM is being taken for the lighting data, specifically "blizzard effective actions per blizzard minute" or whatever variant people are calling it these days. It is extremely inaccurate data, and shouldnt be used for anything any more. SC2gears will tell you your actual live APM, and also has an EAPM option, one that has been publicized so we know exactly what and when actions are removed.

Im also not sure about the quality of the Spectre's sensor, but if you want a good mouse, go for the Razer Deathadder. The Abyssus, Coolermaster Storm Spawn and a few others are worth looking into, but the vast majority of "gaming mice" have massive problems that make them unusable to a lot of serious players.

Dont get caught up on DPI, i can play sc2 fine on 400dpi with this mousemat but i play on 800 so i am comfortable, there is NO NEED for anything over 2-3k, ever, in my opinion. The deathadder gives you i think 3.2k as an option.

Whatever mouse you get, make sure the firmware is up to date, i heard that razer fixed some deathadder issues in a firmware update, and i know the spawn has multiple versions avalible.

Edit: I read up some, and it seems the Mamba and the Spectre both have the sensor issue with drifting to the bottom right for no reason, and jumping mouse cursor in the same direction if you lift up the mouse and place it directly back down. Not sure on potential problems with acceleration etc

Last edit: 2011-12-20 02:51:44

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andrea20 Canada. December 20 2011 18:49. Posts 441

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My trusty 7 year old MX518 finally bit the dust today.

Went out and bought a Deathadder Lefty. It's funny because I'm a lefty yet I've used my right hand all this time, but because I was using my weak hand I was never good at tasks requiring high precision like FPS.

Right now I'm real bad at using the lefty mouse but I see this as an investment. In a few weeks I should be as good, if not better than my righty gaming. The Deathadder Lefty is great so far, though it is a little heavier than the MX518, so I'll need a bit of time to adjust.

Last edit: 2011-12-20 18:53:11

gmorf33 December 22 2011 02:39. Posts 19

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Extremely helpful thread. Thanks for putting all of this information together! I've been scouring the interwebs to find a worthy replacement to my ancient MX500 that's starting to get flaky at high speeds. This thread has been hugely helpful in consuming the wealth of info out there in one handy place.

I'm mostly a claw gripper... but depending on my task i float between grips..sometimes a finger/claw hybrid, sometimes a palm/claw hybrid.. sometimes when feeling lazy i just full out palm it. So mouse shape can be hard to pin down.. i'm used to the ergo MX500 shape, but i find that the generic HP 2-button OEM mice feel really good for RTS games.. they just lack the performance hardware... so i'm really open on mouse designs and think i could get used to just about anything.

I've been bouncing between the DeathAdder, Abyssus, G500, and G9x.

I really like the Abyssus form factor (judging by pictures) but the lack of back/forward thumb buttons is probably a deal breaker for me. About a month ago it wouldn't be too big of a deal, but i recently incorporated those into my standard SC2 hotkey/camera config so gotta have them.

DeathAdder seems to have a really nice shape, performance, and thumb button placement, but i'm a little leary of Razer's quality.

G9x looks pretty solid, but is a little pricey. G500 looks similar to what i'm used to, but looks bulkier.

Anyway.. my search continues.. just wanted to thank OP and all contributors for this thread.

Mr. Wiggles Canada. December 22 2011 14:40. Posts 4685

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Hey, so I'm looking to buy a new mouse soon, and I'd like to clarify some things.

Right now, I'm looking at the Logitech G9X, the Razer Deathadder, and the R.A.T.7. Also, I use a palm-grip.

I've done some research, and between them, it sounds like the Deathadder has the best sensor in it, but it looks a little big compared to what I'm used to, and I've heard some bad things about Razer build-quality (Can anyone comment on this?). The other two mice are closer in size to what I'm used to. I've read that the G9x has positive acceleration, but it's able to be removed (is this true?). I like the R.A.T.7, but I've also read that it has sensor issues (again, if anyone can comment on this, I'd be grateful).

So, I'd like to hear suggestions from people about what they think of these three mice. Basically, I like the RAT7, but I've heard it has sensor issues. I also like the G9x, but I've heard it has acceleration. The Deathadder sounds like it has the best senor, but I'm not sure if I like the size (it seems kind've big), and I'm not confident in Razer build quality from what I've heard/read. If I'm off-base on anything, then excuse me, I'm basically a noob when it comes to mice, and the technology related to them.

Thanks!

"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!

rebdomine December 22 2011 15:50. Posts 1827

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Can anyone recommend something that is around the size of my old Razer Diamondback except a little wider? I love the shape of my Diamondback but having to rest my ring finger too close to my middle finger (I place my ring finger on that corner between the RMB and the right side of the mouse) got a little tiring sometimes. How does the MX518 compare? How about the Salmosa or the Abyssus? Or the G9x?

I play with fingertip grip, have a pretty big hand (7 inches from the tip of my middle finger to the top of my wrist), but I don't really mind small mice (I've used a friend's Razer Orochi before and had no trouble with holding it comfortably, but I don't plan on getting that as I'll never play wireless anyway so I doubt I'd get to utilize it). Do note that while I fingerip grip it, I dislike having the butt of the mouse just touching the tip of my palm (which is something that happens when I hold the Lachesis)

Last edit: 2011-12-22 15:53:44

TheToast United States. December 23 2011 15:30. Posts 4804

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On December 16 2011 15:34 edc wrote:
Thank you so much for your post. I am looking forward to your edit of your OP on the Naga.

To give additional information, I am right-handed and am looking for a mouse that will help me in Starcraft specifically, though if it can help in Minecraft and FPS games such as CS that would be fantastic too. I have medium-sized hands, and (I think) I use the palm grip.

I linked a review for the Naga Epic in the OP too, if you are interested.

On December 22 2011 14:40 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I've heard some bad things about Razer build-quality (Can anyone comment on this?).

I would be interested in any info about this as well. I've been thinking of using some of my holiday money to order myself a shiny new Razer Abyssus...

On December 22 2011 02:39 gmorf33 wrote:
Anyway.. my search continues.. just wanted to thank OP and all contributors for this thread.

You are welcome good sir! Actually, this thread isn't where I really want it to be. Really started out as just an attempt to amalgamate all of the information from all over TL, is slowly evolving in its own right. Now that I've finished another project I was working on, this thread is my project over the holiday weekend. A lot of mice need to be added, and a good chunk of the information needs to be desperately edited.

Speaking of which... there's been a lot of feedback in this thread about shifting the focus away from DPI/CPI. To be honest, the main reason that statistic is listed for all mice is that every manufacturer releases the DPI rating for their product; meaning that it's easy to compare products easily. Is there something else (number of buttons, etc) that is regularly listed for products that you guys would like to see listed?

If anyone is interested in writing up any guides/info/reviews for the OP, send me a PM!

I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.

Avokodo South Africa. December 23 2011 15:56. Posts 80

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Thanks for this thread

Just to add feedback i purchased the logitech m100 because it was recommended here and its a really amazing mouse, coming from a logitech mini optical it feels almost exaclty the same just faster and a tiny bit bigger

blueslobster Germany. December 24 2011 03:55. Posts 271

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On December 13 2011 14:49 edc wrote:
...

Poll: Which mouse is the best for SC?

Spectre (6)

60%

Mamba (3)

30%

Naga Epic (1)

10%

10 total votes

Your vote: Which mouse is the best for SC?

(Vote): Naga Epic
(Vote): Mamba
(Vote): Spectre

...

They are all just awful.

All three mice use the Philips Twin Eye sensor PLN 2032. This sensor is infamous for it's z-axis issue.

If it has to be Razer, you should go with a Deathadder. Deathadder mice do have capable optical sensors. If a high lift off distance (LOD) is of concern for you, you should avoid the 3.5G Deathadder (sensor: Avago ADNS-S3888; up to 3800 CPI; high LOD) and go for the older versions (sensor: Avago ADNS-S3668; "only" up to 1800 CPI; low LOD).

aka IPS.Blue, IPS.Diablo2

slytown United States. December 24 2011 04:04. Posts 1190

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Mice aren't that important for RTS. They are more important for FPS like Quake and CounterStrike. Just get one with a high DPI and one that feels comfortable.

I'm a NukeKnight. Are you? http://www.youtube.com/user/NukeTheStars; The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK

Mr. Wiggles Canada. December 24 2011 04:45. Posts 4685

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So, based on some more reading, I think I'm going to get the G9x. It seems like the Z-axis issue for the sensor in the RAT7 is pretty significant, and I don't really like the shape/size of the Deathadder.

Thanks a lot to the guy who posted the link about the Phillips sensor, and to anyone else who posted in response to me.

If there's some major issue with the G9x I should know about, please contact me.

"Dulce et decorum est pro Aiur mori" -Zealot | TL Mafia is the best sub-forum around, no lie!

blueslobster Germany. December 24 2011 21:00. Posts 271

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On December 24 2011 04:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
...
If there's some major issue with the G9x I should know about, please contact me.

Whether the G9x has some major issues depends on your mouse pad. If you're using a hard pad, you will be fine. Although the laser sensor of the G9x (Avago ADNS-S9500) does have acceleration (every mouse with a 9500 has, see the discussion here).
If you are using a cloth pad however you might run into serious tracking problems. All laser mice just suck on cloth pads - with the SteelSeries Sensei being the one exception. Sadly the Sensei still has acceleration.

aka IPS.Blue, IPS.Diablo2

Daray December 25 2011 09:54. Posts 2888

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I've had Sensei for a couple of days now and i have to say im not that impressed. First of all apparently a lot of people have serious problem with upgrading to 1.13v or whatever... the mouse gets stuck in the "upgrading" mode and you have to manually locate a upgrade fix tool.exe to fix it. Secondly no one needs this kind of precision what the mouse provides with the highest settings. It's just impossible to control and most people use lower sensitivities anyways. Maybe im not used to it but the mouse doesn't feel as accurate as my old mx518. I think i have to do some serious testing with the software, sadly i only have razer goliathus to test the mouse on atm. I dont' personally like the mouse buttons and they feel like they could break easily.

Oh well only 2 days of testing with some ql and sc2... maybe it'll get better. What kind of settings you guys use for low sens?

Cabinet Sanchez Australia. December 29 2011 01:00. Posts 1085

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Guys, I'm far from the first person you should be talking to about SC2 advice but I thought since I'm an internet expert I should chime in.

I specifically purchased the Razer Salmosa for RTS gaming (and although I heard they cancelled it? You can still find it places)
The mouse is symmetrical, small, light, with a very good laser and clever design.
There's no extra buttons to mess up, it's size permits extremely rapid movement, the buttons are probably the best part. Unlike my Microsoft Intellimouse optical (which I love for FPS) http://media.gdgt.com/img/product/3/2fe/intellimouse-optical-pc6-460.jpg the Salmosa's buttons don't have a finite plastic 'line' where they finish - they run along most of the body. This sounds bad but it's good, they are very big, simple and well shaped to press.

I'm not trying to sell the things here but I just found it overall great - even the sides - the bottom is actually smaller than the middle and the top (looking at it from behind at eye level) - I like that, my pinky and thumb can tuck in tight and pull it around (claw / fingertip gamer here) - it's a great piece of work. I hope I'm wrong about it being cancelled but I heard that. I know Razer cancelled the exactmat and released the cheap, plastic, nasty vespula. I think gaming companies need to always have the latest cool niche product so people keep buying cool toys. I know I have at least 5 gaming pads, at least 3 gaming mice etc.

Regardless, the Salmosa is a genuinely damned good mouse, - I know OverSky (had a youtube channel, was fairly good at SC2 early on) was a big fan of it and reviewed it in his mouse guide.
My 2c
(I still leave 2 mice plugged in, an RTS and an FPS mouse)