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| bankai December 07 2010 09:12. Posts 362 | Profile # |
Hi all,
Wanted to start a discussion about having a game plan. I often find (P player) that I can get carried away in the middle of the game that I forget to tech up and just end up building lots of gateway units and forget midway to get more effective units for mid and late game.
What are ppl's thoughts on developing a game plan? I know its gonna change depending on the opponent, but does everyone normally say to themselves "this is what i wanna build" and no matter what, adjust their build to eventually get that unit?
Also, in terms of timing, approx when should u been transitioning to a late game composition? Eg. If I wanna build carriers, should I be thinking to tech to them around my 3rd base??
Anyway, just opening up for comments. |
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| Allred United States. December 07 2010 09:26. Posts 272 | Profile # |
as far as for me, i usually have a game plan, normally i look at the map ask myself a few questions to determine what i want to do. what is the race i am playing, are the rush distances close or far apart, how easy can i expand to my 2nd and 3rd.
from these i usually say to myself, i would like to go with such a build, collosi templar carriers etc but obviously need to adjust depending on opponents build.
carriers are a viable option but i find only if your opponent can't counter them easy if you went collosi and your opponent built lots of vikings and still has some left carriers are not a good choice, if you had Templar however they may be a better option so i find choosing the really late tech path the hardest to decide when looking at it from the beginning |
| | An expert is a man who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault. ~William Castle |
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| Mobius Canada. December 07 2010 09:41. Posts 1265 | Profile Blog # |
IN MY OPINION
game plans revolve around taking expansions.. So I want to go ultras on 3base..
So what im going to do is just FE with roaches, then tech to infestors for faster hive and fungal growth will keep me alive.. So im going to take a 3rd either right as my infestors finish, or if he attacks me before and i hold it with roaches..
When I get my 3rd up I go roach/ultra/crackling->ultra/crackling
And then of course stuff like.. If I see an opening im going to just mass roaches/infestor and delay my 3rd/hive, depending on the situation. But usually im not going to completely discard my gameplan..
anyways this is just how i think of it, i imagine protoss is pretty similar |
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| VeeSe United States. December 07 2010 09:43. Posts 42 | Profile # |
I think you're thinking too statically. There's no "I want to get carriers when i secure my 3rd base." There are many different ways to get to 3 bases and many different situations that you can be in when you do. Instead, you should be thinking something like "I'm going to get carriers if I find myself in situation X."
In general, I think you have it all in reverse. You ask if everyone normally says to themselves "this is what i wanna build" and if they get to it eventually no matter what. That is absolutely the wrong train of thinking. You should have a general game plan and adapt it as situations arise. For example, if my game plan was to eventually get to ultralisks, and my opponent eventually arrives at massing battlecruisers, I'm not building ultralisks "no matter what". The gameplans you start out with should also be specific to map, position, and matchup. |
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| Greentellon Finland. December 07 2010 09:50. Posts 1116 | Profile # |
For me having a game plan is setting clear markers that I aim for. For example:
-Survive to take 2nd base
There are many ways to do that, but the key to winning games is securing at least 2 bases worth of income, for me. Usually by the time I have to secure a 3rd, the game is already decided so I'm not entirely sure about other goals. Usually I go for this huge deathball ramy that can either keep enemy at bay or crush him.
That is a game plan. Having a build order planned out is NOT "a plan".Last edit: 2010-12-07 09:51:21 |
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| zeek0us United States. December 07 2010 10:28. Posts 65 | Profile # |
I'm very interested in this question as well. As a silver player I want to improve my planning/reactions and avoid beating people simply because they didn't exploit my mistakes or indecision. I'd like to avoid the mistakes/indecision in the first place . . .
My money plan is quick ling speed with banes and an expo ASAP into mutas/evo chamber for ling upgrades. With a gaggle of mutas from two bases, it's pretty easy to control the game and prepare well in advance of any serious attack. You get easy scouting, pin the opponent to his bases, force resource/attention expenditure to handle harass, and can expand freely yourself to facilitate more upgrades/tech options.
The problem is that against early pressure that prevents prioritizing econ, sling/bling is a very cost-ineffective response. Blings are suicide units and slings are only good in large numbers, so unless you've got plenty of resources/larva to spare, it's suicide to try replenishing your entire army after every wave of pressure. Switching to roaches/hydras/infestors essentially gives up on mutas until much later, if at all. Plus roaches and hydras both have pretty rock-solid counters and don't allow for easy map control.
Basically, I have no idea how to play from behind as Z. If I can grab that econ lead, it's easy to pressure/punish the opponent and survive missteps/lost battles. If not, muta/ling/bling simply costs too much to be effective. I really want to know how better players than me identify and exploit an advantage when the enemy is dictating the terms of the game early. |
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| awang0830 December 07 2010 10:34. Posts 83 | Profile # |
my game plan is just to scout, predict what the opponent is going, build whatever counters the opponent, find an opening to catch them out of position or off guard.
I don't know.... i never have a plan until I know what the opponent is doing... |
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 Tivo United States. December 07 2010 10:45. Posts 121 | Profile # |
| I have a safe build- 3gate robo- that I go with when I don't think I have enough scouting info to determine what the opponent is doing. If I see something interesting or out of the ordinary, I adapt. Thats about it. |
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| Brother Roga Finland. December 07 2010 10:46. Posts 38 | Profile # |
| My game plan usually goes like this: I wall off with 1 rax 2 depot and as i start to make the 2nd depot, i make 2nd rax and get both refineries running. By the time the 1st rax is done, i got 2nd rax about 1/3 finished and 2 refineries running. I attack as soon as i got 10 Marines and 4 Marauders, regardless of match type. Should the game continue, i get tanks and Viking/Raven support, depending on my opponents "path". If he techs, Ravens. If balanced build, Vikings. If rush, my first attack kills them. |
| | *Only the eager martyr hoards a war.* 'Adeptus Astartes, Vol. III, Chapter VI. |
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| endline December 07 2010 10:49. Posts 100 | Profile # |
as a T player. i like having a solid core. those t1 units are viable mid-late game with supporting higher tech units. protecting my economy and having a good set of unit producing structures is always my game plan. regardless of tech path, if you keep the unit producing structures in tact and protect your harvesters you've won the hardest part.
i like to say by 5 minutes second cc goes down, 10-15min (around 50-70 food) 3rd goes down (whether i take a 3rd or just use it for extra scv production and mules)
and of course keep scouting. i feel scouting as t is the most critical thing.
z has abundant overlords with high ground positions
p has observers (which are going to get cheaper)
t has to fight for the xel naga towers and don't be afraid to send some scvs in, or do a small drop to get an idea of what's going down (scan is an option but i try to save them for emergency scans and mules)
Also I welcome early pressure situations. as T i like trading armies. it gives me a chance to reconstruct based on what's going on. However if pressure cracks me, and i have to damage control, i immediately start to macro as hard as i can while dealing with pressure. counter pressure is KEY when you're down. that doesn't mean all in or drops into well defended positions. any damage and money you can strip from an opponent without losses is a win. |
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| emc United States. December 07 2010 11:11. Posts 2909 | Profile # |
| having a plan and following through with it is one of the hardest things to learn, especially when u get side tracked by battles and scouting. I always have a good idea of when to tech when I get too high on gas, when I get too high on minerals I expand. Keeping these things in mind, I allow my gas and mineral ratio to remain relatively even which is something you actually want. |
| | take what i say with a grain of salt, make your own decisions and form your own opinions |
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| DarkOmen Canada. December 07 2010 11:43. Posts 72 | Profile # |
Hey Bankai,
I found myself asking the same questions a few weeks ago, and what I ended up doing was picking one all around decent strategy and playing it in every game, regardless of matchup or map. This was in response to a Day9 episode where he was saying depth beats breadth, every time.
By doing this I lost some stupid games, but I learned firsthand when my chosen strat worked, when I needed to tweak it based on spawn location or my opponent's opener, and when it just needed to be scrapped entirely. But more importantly, I learned WHY it needed these tweaks.
Several weeks later, I've gone through so many slight variations that I now have multiple game plans for each matchup.
That's my general take on making a plan, but for the specifics I basically have developed a set of triggers from what I scout. For example, in ZvP I open with 14 pool 16 hatch and generally try to get mutas ASAP. However I've found that a forge FE is very weak to early roach pressure, so if I see that I ditch my muta plan and do an early roach/speedling push. That's just one example, but hopefully you get my meaning.
TLDR: I would say have a general plan, but try to identify situations where it simply won't work. From my experience, the best way to gain that sort of " game sense" or whatever you want to call it is to stick with your plan and find out when/why it simply won't work
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| | "I'm on a pumpkin pie diet right now. It's all I eat. I feel like I'm gonna die, but it's so delicious." - Artosis |
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| Azzur Australia. December 07 2010 16:26. Posts 5840 | Profile Blog # |
I'm currently playing as a 2150 Diamond Terran and I have a gameplan for every matchup.
Opening
I tend to stick to almost 100% my pre-determined build order unless something unusual (e.g. proxy) occurs. This doesn't mean that the build-order is inflexible, rather, I have planned all the responses already. For example, in TvP, whenever I scout an expansion, I stop everything and throw down a CC. This response is already part of my pre-determined build order.
Midgame
My gameplan is harass/defend/expand and respond to my opponent's attacks. There are certain things that are not part of my gameplan, for instance, 2-base timing push. The units that I'll build has already been decided but the proportion of each will be determined by scouting.
Endgame
Similar to the midgame, my gameplan is defend/expand. I'll move my army to a good location and try and bait them to engage.Last edit: 2010-12-07 16:27:00 |
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| eth3n December 07 2010 16:52. Posts 718 | Profile # |
While Zerg is highly reactionary, there are some goals/milestones I hope to hit in almost every game (ZvZ is so brief it can be excluded)
overlord upgrades (both) as soon as practical
infestor integration (and energy upgrade) as soon as practical
tier3 as soon as practical
exceptions are of course where opponent makes a gameending mistake (leaves room for devastating[rather than harassing] drops/runbys/etc) and of course if protoss allows you to contain with air. |
| | Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect. |
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