[Champion] Trundle

I really like him, but have a hard time picking him. He's one of the best duelists by far, and can quickly cause somebody who doesn't know him to take an early death on an invade. The fact that he's basically never played is a huge asset in that regard, as even high elo players can often be taken by surprise with him. My problem with him is that if I'm looking to invade I'll probably play shaco, lee or olaf. They all have much, much better better ganking abilities though. If I want to passively farm I'll look towards olaf. I just dont find myself picking him unless I actually want to play him, he's like a notch below top tier though.

Pro's
* Excellent sustain
* Great Duelist
* Hard to Catch out
* Great at fighting lanes that are ahead
* Counters basically all bruisers

Con's
* Poor Ganks, very reliant on lane CC or extremely out of position enemies
* Slow clear times

I think what it comes down to with him is that he's just not very exciting. He doesn't make plays on his own and his kits mediocre in teamfights. He's going to be your front line and probably hold it just fine, but he's not pulling off anything special except mashing a few buttons and hoping for the best. Despite being such a good duelist he's also very prone to well organized invades because he is so slow. If your mid and bot shove you can force him out of his own jungle very easily and completely shut him down early.

Live hard, live free.

La1 United Kingdom. January 10 2013 01:20. Posts 529

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On January 10 2013 00:27 Filter wrote:
I really like him, but have a hard time picking him. He's one of the best duelists by far, and can quickly cause somebody who doesn't know him to take an early death on an invade. The fact that he's basically never played is a huge asset in that regard, as even high elo players can often be taken by surprise with him. My problem with him is that if I'm looking to invade I'll probably play shaco, lee or olaf. They all have much, much better better ganking abilities though. If I want to passively farm I'll look towards olaf. I just dont find myself picking him unless I actually want to play him, he's like a notch below top tier though.

Pro's
* Excellent sustain
* Great Duelist
* Hard to Catch out
* Great at fighting lanes that are ahead
* Counters basically all bruisers

Con's
* Poor Ganks, very reliant on lane CC or extremely out of position enemies
* Slow clear times

I think what it comes down to with him is that he's just not very exciting. He doesn't make plays on his own and his kits mediocre in teamfights. He's going to be your front line and probably hold it just fine, but he's not pulling off anything special except mashing a few buttons and hoping for the best. Despite being such a good duelist he's also very prone to well organized invades because he is so slow. If your mid and bot shove you can force him out of his own jungle very easily and completely shut him down early.

I thought the same, However within the new patch (and a lot less champs going boots first now) he actually gap closes alot faster, his clear times are also as good if not better than all the top tier junglers now, The steroid he gets with machete is really that strong, pick him again and let me know

I dont play olaf and i think maybe i always run the wrong runes with lee or the wrong masteries but i always feel low on hp after the first clear, I also think lee falls of late game unless he gets super fed however trundle can still be a nasty thing to face as he can cause a lot of disruption in team fights. that said i am not the best lee player by far and need to work on my lee

pff

Aldrovandi United States. January 15 2013 10:00. Posts 55

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On January 10 2013 00:05 La1 wrote:

I currently go wriggles into cleaver or wriggles phage depending on the other team and depending on whos getting fed etc..

Has anybody else used him recently? and what are your thoughts? I currently have around a 5.3 KDA with him

Trundle feels much better now than he did at the end of season 2. I've been going wriggles into zeke's and then situational stuff. Never have to go back with that much lifesteal and since there are ads everywhere it boosts teamfighting/counterganking a ton. With a FH by late game, I have almost 100% pillar uptime and can be wherever I need to be in fights.

Aldrovandi United States. January 28 2013 12:56. Posts 55

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I've been playing a lot of Trundle in the jungle in S3 and finally decided to go through the jungle and figure out exactly which paths can be completely blocked off. Here are the results (in handy guide form!):

The Ultimate Troll's Guide to Pooping in the Jungle
+ Show Spoiler +

Overview of which paths can be blocked:
[image loading]

Blue Side
+ Show Spoiler +

Purple Side
+ Show Spoiler +

So there you have it - 18 different spots where your pillar is as effective as Anivia wall (or more, since with 40% cdr you can block a path permanently).

Last edit: 2013-02-20 05:08:57

DarkwindHK Hong Kong. January 28 2013 13:33. Posts 320

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Amazing!! This is the guide that I need to bring my trolling to the next level!

Dont be too humble, you are not that great.

Alaric France. January 28 2013 14:41. Posts 8805

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Really useful, thanks! <3

"This build should be called the Neutron Bomb build - you can win by taking out all the people but leaving all the structures standing." - somebody about iEchoic's 2fac/2port (www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=189624)

LazyFailKid Canada. January 28 2013 14:59. Posts 386

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Model size matters? O_O

Alaric France. January 28 2013 15:33. Posts 8805

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It shouldn't on Teemo or Annie. Only Nautilus, Cho'Gath when he starts getting stacks, and I believe Sejuani have different model size than most of the champions.

Just played one, got assigned the jungle, enemy had Kha'Zix/Draven/Nocturne/Blitzcrank/Rumble so I figured with half the team diving us and the other half being more "ranged" the pillar could be good to punish their lack of coordination.
Felt the same problems than in late s2 where Trundle loves CDR but the itemization for it is pretty weak early on (can't rush locket first item and do good, he needs some damage to stay relevant in clear time). He's still pretty slow, too, at least a lot slower on the buffs than I'd have expected from his Q numbers.
I was stronger than Kha'Zix early on so it helped a lot too (he rushed tear, Ryze did the same, guess who won) so it helped my mobility.

Went for machete+5 -> phage (I had an assist on the fb on bot) -> boots+belt -> golem spirit and then we won the game before I could recall (had 2+ k, would have probably built straight aegis, or tabi+kindle for SV/zeke, or tabi+finishing mallet). I didn't feel like dropping 500 into spirit stone, and phage is simply too important for Trundle to stick on targets.
Had some plays with the pillar during the last fight, near purple's top inner, I waited for Rumble to push since Kennen wanted a gank, but Rumble disappeared... to facheck the bush 10s later. Cue chaotic fight, I move toward the golems then tower as Kennen falls (Blitz/Draven/Kha following) during his ultimate, circle around the trees chased by Draven who gets low, Kha'Zix turns back toward the bush, I'm right above the bush so I lose vision of low HP Draven, I turn the corner immediatly to surprise him and kill him in one hit before he reacts, then pillar into the bush to get vision of Kha and finish him using Q's enhanced range to get the kill before he enters the bush and auto range.

I remembered about managing Q's cooldown and stutter-stepping to chase people efficiently while waiting for cooldowns, but I had forgotten that the pillar gives vision. That was pretty neat. Really felt the need for cdr to get a second pillar off during the other skirmishes though.

Aldrovandi United States. January 28 2013 16:22. Posts 55

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I think wriggles is much better on him than any of the spirit items, especially since the smaller creeps in the jungle now have low enough health that they usually die to one aa+bladed armor. I open machete+5>wriggles>kindlegem pretty much every game, then finish zekes or mercs depending on how the game is going. With wriggles you can dragon at any time, if you have one health potion you can solo it at level 6 without using your ult (and stay around 3/4 health the whole time). Top off cdr with a frozen heart (and runes/masteries) and then a Warmogs and you're pretty much done. 6th item is maw/randuins/triforce/whatever you're unkillable you're Trundle with Warmogs.

I don't really like frozen mallet on him. Usually I find that either I'm hunting down someone without high mobility (Ashe/Sivir/Kog) and can keep up just with contaminate+furor or I'm trying to catch an Ez or Vayne and frozen mallet isn't going to do anything for me anyways. Once they back off from you, just pillar them out and go back to the teamfight.

I don't know how you find him that slow, I generally have to wait about 3-4 seconds for wraiths to respawn after clearing red and golems in the first clear and with wriggles camps are trivial.

Alaric France. January 28 2013 16:56. Posts 8805

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I like mallet because Trundle (and now the whole roster with s3 meta) tends to favor health, while phage is a nifty asset to my ganks early on, so it's a bit of a "phage is good early on for its tankiness+damage combo and how much it improves my ganks" and "later on I can get a belt item without using another slot, converting the early utility of phage into my HP slot".
I didn't like wriggles because it didn't change his clearspeed much with how AoE-oriented the jungle was, but I'll admit to not having tested it since the last tweaks, I should do at least one.

As for the slowness, maybe I play too much power-farmers (Udyr previously, Mundo, Vi, and Maokai/Nautilus/Amumu pre-last changes) that pretty much instaclear the non-golem camps so obviously he doesn't like the comparison but it gave me high standards.

I'm generally running a much more utility-heavy build when playing Trundle, since I'm not a fan of resists on him. He didn't need them in s2, they give much less than health in s3. I used to go for shurelya's (because it was super good anywa, Q could easily run him through his mana pool, and it gave up to 23% CDR with defensive masteries), Zeke's (to get lifesteal without wriggles, a nice AS aura to go with the AD steroid from Q) or just SV (nice little MR buffer early on + health, and the passive wasn't that bad once Trundle's was maxed).
SV still seems pretty good for him, this or bulwark is the only MR item needed (I like golem spirit because then I can go Tabi and still have tenacity, while SV/bulwark is enough for MR) and it gives HP too. Zeke's I like a lot less since AS generally helps the team more than AD.

On the other hand, there aren't many good HP/armour items that grant CDR apart from Locket, and it's a bit light on armour later on (though the EHP with active is actually very good). So even if I don't like FH on him, with how much CDR is to be valued on Trundle I guess it adds a lot to its appeal.

Rixxe United Kingdom. January 28 2013 17:35. Posts 96

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Suprised Triforce hasn't been mentioned much in regards to season3. It's still really insane on Trundle as he benefits from all aspects of the item. I guess the issue about getting enough gold to afford it is always the issue, but phage is pretty core, so you can always adapt the build if needed.

Wiggles, Zekes, Warmogs seem pretty much the best items for Trundle at the moment, but apart from Triforce, i'm not sure what damage items are good on Trundle, perhaps Black Cleaver?

*bleep* you up in a gangsta style!

Shiv. January 28 2013 18:30. Posts 1902

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On January 28 2013 17:35 Rixxe wrote:
Suprised Triforce hasn't been mentioned much in regards to season3. It's still really insane on Trundle as he benefits from all aspects of the item. I guess the issue about getting enough gold to afford it is always the issue, but phage is pretty core, so you can always adapt the build if needed.

Wiggles, Zekes, Warmogs seem pretty much the best items for Trundle at the moment, but apart from Triforce, i'm not sure what damage items are good on Trundle, perhaps Black Cleaver?

I know people love to hate it for some reason, but I'd consider running Atma's (and dropping the Wriggle's upgrade, while we're at it). With how bulky your core ist with Zeke's and 'Mogs, Atma's would help out a bunch and you can always get that Avarice blade somewhat early.

currently rooting for myself.

sofawall January 28 2013 23:39. Posts 26

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One thing important to remember about Trundle: Stealing resists doesn't matter when nobody builds resists. With so many people stacking health over resists, you're going to need to remember that ulting that tanky-ass Shyvana may not give you as many resists as you've been expecting.

WaveofShadow Canada. January 28 2013 23:42. Posts 5305

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Reddit link blowing up the page views on this thread.
Not sure why but I find that pretty amusing...nice to see more TL links on the LoL reddit though.

twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast!! GG Soniv!

sylverfyre United States. January 28 2013 23:50. Posts 4137

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On January 28 2013 23:39 sofawall wrote:
One thing important to remember about Trundle: Stealing resists doesn't matter when nobody builds resists. With so many people stacking health over resists, you're going to need to remember that ulting that tanky-ass Shyvana may not give you as many resists as you've been expecting.

~~But your ulti is ALSO a % max health steal.~~ So you're not getting much resists out of it, but you're getting more healing (because they don't have resist to reduce it, ~~and because they have more health~~)
Redacted because I'm wrong.

Has anyone tried Iceborne on him (possibly after Warmogs/Locket or something?) Seems like it might be nice - sticking power / aoe disruption, glacial is a nice midgame CDR core item alongside Kindlegem (locket?)

I think you only really need to go for Razor and not so much wriggles.
With all the AD assassins / AD casters, lowering enemy AD is probably stronger than we're giving it credit for.

I'm currently thinking of a core that looks like
Razor
Locket
Either SV or Glacial (depending on which resist you want more - your HP is at a decent level from Locket.) Prefer Glacial - cause Iceborne looks cool (pun intended) Theoretically we're picking trundle because there are AD casters on the other team we wanted to shut down, right? So all this armor stacking makes sense, right? >_>

That's 25% CDR. Can get CDR boots (you have tenacity from W, so treads aren't completely necessary unless you REALLY need to reduce a specific CC) or you can get the other of Glacial/SV.

Last edit: 2013-01-29 02:18:52

TheYango United States. January 29 2013 01:59. Posts 15771

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On January 28 2013 23:50 sylverfyre wrote:
But your ulti is ALSO a % max health steal. So you're not getting much resists out of it, but you're getting a shitton of healing (because they don't have resist to reduce it, and because they have more health)

The health steal is flat+AP. Only the resist steal is %-based.

I'm still of the belief that Locket+Aegis are priority 1 this patch.

Triforce is still the same as it ever was--one of several good 6th item damage choices. Cleaver's OK, and I haven't tried BotRK, but it seems like it fills the slot Bloodrazor did before (no Aspd is annoying, though).

Last edit: 2013-01-29 02:06:41

如果有一天星际没有了,如果有一天DOTA没有了,我不会消失.

WaveofShadow Canada. January 29 2013 02:09. Posts 5305

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On January 29 2013 01:59 TheYango wrote:

Show nested quote +

The health steal is flat+AP. Only the resist steal is %-based.

I'm still of the belief that Locket+Aegis are priority 1 this patch.

Show nested quote +

Yango, I'm curious as to your opinion on LiftLift's latest rant regarding Trundle.
(Personally I feel he is CRAZY wrong because everything that was wrong with Trundle is S2 is still wrong with him).

http://www.lanefeed.com/omnisupports-khazix-still-broken-trundle-the-sleeper-op-twitch-nerfs-needed/

twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast!! GG Soniv!

sylverfyre United States. January 29 2013 02:20. Posts 4137

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Crumbzz talking about Trundle and saying that he doesn't really have the damage to be that good. He goes on basically how Trundle is only good if your engagements are going to be long so that you can really abuse the repeated pillar applications.

TheYango United States. January 29 2013 02:28. Posts 15771

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On January 29 2013 02:20 sylverfyre wrote:
Crumbzz talking about Trundle and saying that he doesn't really have the damage to be that good. He goes on basically how Trundle is only good if your engagements are going to be long so that you can really abuse the repeated pillar applications.

He's sort of right, but that's inherent to design of Trundle's kit. He's always been good in longer engagements, and weak in short fights with high burst damage.

But League of Warmogs makes fights long right now.

On January 29 2013 02:09 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yango, I'm curious as to your opinion on LiftLift's latest rant regarding Trundle.
(Personally I feel he is CRAZY wrong because everything that was wrong with Trundle is S2 is still wrong with him).

http://www.lanefeed.com/omnisupports-khazix-still-broken-trundle-the-sleeper-op-twitch-nerfs-needed/

Doublelift's statements about Trundle are more or less just as useless as any "X is OP" statement--he's just stating the strong points of the champion. They were strong before, and they're not why he became OP.

That said, I can think of a couple reasons why Trundle might be stronger in S3. Some not necessarily BECAUSE of S3, though.

Last edit: 2013-01-29 02:50:56

如果有一天星际没有了,如果有一天DOTA没有了,我不会消失.

WaveofShadow Canada. January 29 2013 03:51. Posts 5305

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Well the reason I ask is because I honestly really miss using the guy. I'm not trying to be a bandwagoner and wait until people tell me he's okay to use again, but every time I try to drag him up from the depths for a few games I still run into those mobility creep/gank issues that he has.

You can't gank an Ezreal as Trundle and when Ez is in such a high % of games, and you can't stick to anyone else for long enough to get your autoattacks off constantly...

Teamfight/high ELO-wise I'm sure people can come up with uses for him and his Pillar, being the great skill that it is, but in terms of damage he's got none, and in my opinion can't compete with those who can build tanky and STILL destroy people (aka Darius/Olaf).

Like sure he's unkillable lategame, but after the rest of you team is dead, what good are you?

twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast!! GG Soniv!