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well if those "news articles" wont help you to understand the situation, hope this will do
From 4chan:
FAQ
Q: This is only sexual stuff, right? A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
Q: Elaborate? A: No criminal acts. That means no killing, no stealing, no carrying of weapons, no sharing of bicycles, no smoking/drinking for minors (in fact since it says "promoting" criminal behaviour, it could be argued that no smoking/drinking will be allowed at all). Basically anything with action could be considered promoting cruel/criminal behaviour. Meanwhile the "stirring sexual emotions" part will similarly affect anything with fanservice or romance. So basically, only stuff like Hidamari Sketch will remain.
Q: What will this affect? A: All forms of fiction except novels and live action.
Q: How will it affect them? A: In Tokyo, everything has to be classified by the industry under either all-ages (below 18) and 18+, and stores will have to make sure minors can't get 18+ stuff.
Q: So just slap an 18+ sticker and life goes on as usual, no big deal, right? A: No. If they can't sell it to minors they won't bother making it in the first place.
Q: Only Tokyo, so move out, no big deal. A: Tokyo is the economic centre of Japan, plus all of the big companies honsha are located in Tokyo (some have their own ridiculously expensive skyscrapers located in ridiculously expensive districts). The rest of the country will be affected. Plus if it's passed in Tokyo, other prefectures are very likely to follow suit, as always
noticed how they actually REMOVED the statement of banning the possess of child pornography before they pass the ban... yes, they REMOVED it => this is not a war against child porn, it is vs Otaku culture
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On December 16 2010 15:45 NB wrote:well if those "news articles" wont help you to understand the situation, hope this will do Show nested quote +From 4chan:
FAQ
Q: This is only sexual stuff, right? A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
Q: Elaborate? A: No criminal acts. That means no killing, no stealing, no carrying of weapons, no sharing of bicycles, no smoking/drinking for minors (in fact since it says "promoting" criminal behaviour, it could be argued that no smoking/drinking will be allowed at all). Basically anything with action could be considered promoting cruel/criminal behaviour. Meanwhile the "stirring sexual emotions" part will similarly affect anything with fanservice or romance. So basically, only stuff like Hidamari Sketch will remain.
Q: What will this affect? A: All forms of fiction except novels and live action.
Q: How will it affect them? A: In Tokyo, everything has to be classified by the industry under either all-ages (below 18) and 18+, and stores will have to make sure minors can't get 18+ stuff.
Q: So just slap an 18+ sticker and life goes on as usual, no big deal, right? A: No. If they can't sell it to minors they won't bother making it in the first place.
Q: Only Tokyo, so move out, no big deal. A: Tokyo is the economic centre of Japan, plus all of the big companies honsha are located in Tokyo (some have their own ridiculously expensive skyscrapers located in ridiculously expensive districts). The rest of the country will be affected. Plus if it's passed in Tokyo, other prefectures are very likely to follow suit, as always
noticed how they actually REMOVED the statement of banning the possess of child pornography before they pass the ban... yes, they REMOVED it => this is not a war against child porn, it is vs Otaku culture
Exactly. Theres a large group of conservatives in Japan that have gotten sick of otaku culture....but they're also limiting all the GOOD ANIME AND MANGA that could possibly come out of Tokyo as well. It's a very broad approach. It's like trying to do surgery with a chainsaw instead of a scalpel. It's just simply too much of a heavy handed approach. I understand that they have good intentions...but you know what they say about the road to hell.
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Even One Piece has Sanji smoking, we all know that smoking isn't the best thing you could do for your health, but it's part of the character.
sometimes you need to draw a negative to reinforce the positive, good contrast is essential in fiction.
kinda dick move if you ask me, their economy is in the shitter, and they're killing their last growth asset @.@
otaku is their main export now =)
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First the Japanese conservatives fuck up the economy, and now they are targeting young Japanese men who spend money on harmless hobbies, as well as the high school kid that gets a laugh out of shonen ecchi gags found in every single damn popular manga. When was the last time Japan even got hit by a rapist/pedophilia related scandal, nevermind one with an otaku as a culprit?
In the meantime look at the numerous incest/gangrape/groping Japanese porn that is released in the thousands each year, hey it's kosher since the naughty private parts are all blocked out!
No wonder Japan is stagnating. Their anime and video game industry are struggling internationally already and now they throw in such a over-generalizing law to stifle their creativity. It's like they want to sabotage themselves in the media/entertainment industry and let the Koreans take over completely.
I guess it's time to change the Prime Minister again, lets aim for the 4th time before the end of the year??
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I find the conservatives' lack of pride in their own form of culture very sad. Would Los Angeles try to destroy Hollywood because of the often shallow and formulaic stereotypes it casts on its citizens? Otaku culture is CULTURE! I am disappointed.
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Before reading this thread. I thought explicit sexual, violent and criminal content would be ok to be censored for 18+. But after reading the pedophiles' reasonings posted in this thread. Now I think it should be 25+. You guys are not being very convincing
Don't get me wrong. I remember when I was 15 and I would read about banning of violent games and explicit content. I would get all worked up in arms about how obviously stupid it was. Even tho very very deep inside I knew the truth that I just didn't want to admit to my own self. But yea, then you grow up ^^
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But yea, then you grow up ^^
And apparently lose mental mental faculty. I find being called a pedophile because I don't like thought crimes a bit offensive, perhaps we should censor you. Your sort of attitude could be seriously detrimental to the development of children into intelligent adults.
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So like Negima! Magister Negi Magi or anything remotely resemble anything from the Nanoha series are gonna get a stick up their asses.
Or anything that looks like Death Notes,
or Elfen Lied,
or Bleach,
or even Hajime no Ippo (seeing half naked men beating the shit out of each other may have long-term effect of children's sexual orientation?)
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angelicfolly Biologically, a 15 year old doesn't have the same mental capacity a 18 year old will. I don't think drawn virtual characters have any mental capacity at all.
Sufficiency I think some of the Japanese stuff (such as depiction of dismemberment, bestiality, gangbang, rape, [very] under aged sexual acts, etc.) should be banned as they are offensive to just about anyone. By the same logic, you could ban gay, lesbian, transgender and other fetish works, murder stories, classical works with rape, murder or genocide scenes in it, including religious works of course. You know, the depicted stuff that offends almost everyone - or at least the vast majority.
Simplistik What about Lolita (the book by Nabukov)? Should it be age restricted? Coincidentally, one of the supporters of ban, Shintaro Ishihara, wrote a novel with schoolgirl gangrape and murder in it. Of course this ban doesn't affect it.
ThaZenith I've come to my own conclusion that this won't affect a lot of anime anyways. The law is so vaguely stated that it could mean anything or nothing. Oh, a vaguely stated law that can be used to cherry pick works to ban. I'm so reassured now.
lofung the law was once declined back in may. it came out again at very late november.
Sankaku Complex Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed “a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography” on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged – that the bill is intended exclusively as an “anti-otaku” law seems to be beyond doubt. It is very difficult to objectively assess the scope of the law – along with vague and subjective terms like “interfere with the healthy development of youth,” the law also includes “etc.” on the end of most of its examples, leaving it quite unclear, for example, whether the “improper glorification of illegal sexual activity, etc.” applies to only virtual sex crimes, or all crimes in general – presumably the interpretation adopted will be whichever is convenient to censors. Similarly, the ban’s mention of “rape and other sexual acts which violate societal norms” seems inevitably to point to a ban on depictions of homosexuality, considering who was behind the law. Both versions are absurd, but their implementation takes the crown. One mangaka was already refused by his publisher due to his manga with school uniforms in it. Yes, school uniforms are very dangerous to the healthy development of youth, and are part of an extreme sexual behavior that harms and offends everyone. Yep.
angelicfolly Point I was trying to make, (before you sidestepped the issue), was that characters who act, look, talk like a child IS a depiction of a child. Except of course when they are 300 year old lovecraftian abominations. Or 20+ year old women with A cup (hello Australia!)
angelicfolly Yeah it still promotes children as sex images, which is the reason why it's trying to be stamped out. The reason child pornography SHOULD be banned is because it involves heavy child abuse and is a direct product of said abuse, not because it is offensive or has unintended consequences. Should depictions of schoolgirl or rape roleplaying be banned? Should everything be banned with unintended harmful consequences? It would be absurd. Oh, speaking of consequences; should feminist works be stomped out since they depict men as mindless serial rapist pedophile animals and promote hatred and discrimination against them?
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On December 16 2010 19:03 Frigo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +angelicfolly+ Show Spoiler +Biologically, a 15 year old doesn't have the same mental capacity a 18 year old will. I don't think drawn virtual characters have any mental capacity at all. Sufficiency I think some of the Japanese stuff (such as depiction of dismemberment, bestiality, gangbang, rape, [very] under aged sexual acts, etc.) should be banned as they are offensive to just about anyone. By the same logic, you could ban gay, lesbian, transgender and other fetish works, murder stories, classical works with rape, murder or genocide scenes in it, including religious works of course. You know, the depicted stuff that offends almost everyone - or at least the vast majority. Simplistik What about Lolita (the book by Nabukov)? Should it be age restricted? Coincidentally, one of the supporters of ban, Shintaro Ishihara, wrote a novel with schoolgirl gangrape and murder in it. Of course this ban doesn't affect it. ThaZenith I've come to my own conclusion that this won't affect a lot of anime anyways. The law is so vaguely stated that it could mean anything or nothing. Oh, a vaguely stated law that can be used to cherry pick works to ban. I'm so reassured now. lofung the law was once declined back in may. it came out again at very late november. Sankaku Complex Even more bizarrely, the final draft actually removed a passage that imposed “a duty not to possess [photographic] child pornography” on Tokyo residents, whilst leaving the section banning erotic manga and anime (and explicitly excluding photographic materials) all but unchanged – that the bill is intended exclusively as an “anti-otaku” law seems to be beyond doubt. It is very difficult to objectively assess the scope of the law – along with vague and subjective terms like “interfere with the healthy development of youth,” the law also includes “etc.” on the end of most of its examples, leaving it quite unclear, for example, whether the “improper glorification of illegal sexual activity, etc.” applies to only virtual sex crimes, or all crimes in general – presumably the interpretation adopted will be whichever is convenient to censors. Similarly, the ban’s mention of “rape and other sexual acts which violate societal norms” seems inevitably to point to a ban on depictions of homosexuality, considering who was behind the law. Both versions are absurd, but their implementation takes the crown. One mangaka was already refused by his publisher due to his manga with school uniforms in it. Yes, school uniforms are very dangerous to the healthy development of youth, and are part of an extreme sexual behavior that harms and offends everyone. Yep. angelicfolly Point I was trying to make, (before you sidestepped the issue), was that characters who act, look, talk like a child IS a depiction of a child. Except of course when they are 300 year old lovecraftian abominations. Or 20+ year old women with A cup (hello Australia!) angelicfolly Yeah it still promotes children as sex images, which is the reason why it's trying to be stamped out. The reason child pornography SHOULD be banned is because it involves heavy child abuse and is a direct product of said abuse, not because it is offensive or has unintended consequences. Should depictions of schoolgirl or rape roleplaying be banned? Should everything be banned with unintended harmful consequences? It would be absurd. Oh, speaking of consequences; should feminist works be stomped out since they depict men as mindless serial rapist pedophile animals and promote hatred and discrimination against them?
I think this is the penultimate post of this debacle,of a 5 page fail-train- To limit ourselves in one area is to limit us in all concievable areas that might be harmful to children (when it comes to fiction). If you are against gore/violence cartoons/comics you really should be on the same side as the people who try to ban violent video games for example. Being on a videogame forum that might not sit well with most people I bet...
I don't even feel like discussing this at length because it makes me so disgusted to read comments that want to control an artist ability to express himself, and to control the people who enjoy his/hers work. blegh...
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On December 16 2010 15:45 NB wrote:+ Show Spoiler +well if those "news articles" wont help you to understand the situation, hope this will do From 4chan:
FAQ
Q: This is only sexual stuff, right? A: No. It reads "anything that may hinder the healthy growth of youths by stirring sexual emotions, promoting cruel behaviour, or causing suicidal or criminal tendencies", which is a purposefully ambiguous blanket statement that can pretty much be applied to anything. Even Doraemon could be considered 18+ under this.
Q: Elaborate? A: No criminal acts. That means no killing, no stealing, no carrying of weapons, no sharing of bicycles, no smoking/drinking for minors (in fact since it says "promoting" criminal behaviour, it could be argued that no smoking/drinking will be allowed at all). Basically anything with action could be considered promoting cruel/criminal behaviour. Meanwhile the "stirring sexual emotions" part will similarly affect anything with fanservice or romance. So basically, only stuff like Hidamari Sketch will remain.
Q: What will this affect? A: All forms of fiction except novels and live action.
Q: How will it affect them? A: In Tokyo, everything has to be classified by the industry under either all-ages (below 18) and 18+, and stores will have to make sure minors can't get 18+ stuff.
Q: So just slap an 18+ sticker and life goes on as usual, no big deal, right? A: No. If they can't sell it to minors they won't bother making it in the first place.
Q: Only Tokyo, so move out, no big deal. A: Tokyo is the economic centre of Japan, plus all of the big companies honsha are located in Tokyo (some have their own ridiculously expensive skyscrapers located in ridiculously expensive districts). The rest of the country will be affected. Plus if it's passed in Tokyo, other prefectures are very likely to follow suit, as always
noticed how they actually REMOVED the statement of banning the possess of child pornography before they pass the ban... yes, they REMOVED it => this is not a war against child porn, it is vs Otaku culture Well.... This just shows how terrible this really is.......
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
On December 16 2010 18:20 O-ops wrote: So like Negima! Magister Negi Magi or anything remotely resemble anything from the Nanoha series are gonna get a stick up their asses.
Or anything that looks like Death Notes,
or Elfen Lied,
or Bleach,
or even Hajime no Ippo (seeing half naked men beating the shit out of each other may have long-term effect of children's sexual orientation?)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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ok, this is an example for the ban:
slightly NSFW: + Show Spoiler +the female character in the picture is going to elementary school
what you see up there is a cut scene for an anime which was made from a LEGENDARY MANGA for kid was first made in 1969. The main character of this series is voted as "1 of the 22 Asian Heroes" in time magazine in 2002. I personally was raised with this manga just like how you american kids was raised with "Tom and Jerry" or "dexter lab"...
And basicly, according to the rule this manga will be put in the adult store just because of this cut scene... Well in the end i bet they would go ahead and make an "exception" for this but the situation just gona turn out worse if they end up doing it.
Information about this manga/anime could be found here: + Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doraemon
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On December 16 2010 18:20 O-ops wrote: So like Negima! Magister Negi Magi or anything remotely resemble anything from the Nanoha series are gonna get a stick up their asses.
Or anything that looks like Death Notes,
or Elfen Lied,
or Bleach,
or even Hajime no Ippo (seeing half naked men beating the shit out of each other may have long-term effect of children's sexual orientation?)
There goes the manga i know and love, sigh
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On December 16 2010 19:54 NB wrote:ok, this is an example for the ban: slightly NSFW: + Show Spoiler +the female character in the picture is going to elementary school what you see up there is a cut scene for an anime which was made from a LEGENDARY MANGA for kid was first made in 1969. The main character of this series is voted as "1 of the 22 Asian Heroes" in time magazine in 2002. I personally was raised with this manga just like how you american kids was raised with "Tom and Jerry" or "dexter lab"... And basicly, according to the rule this manga will be put in the adult store just because of this cut scene... Well in the end i bet they would go ahead and make an "exception" for this but the situation just gona turn out worse if they end up doing it. Information about this manga/anime could be found here: + Show Spoiler +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doraemon
And this is the problem. It's not about gangbang / rape / bestiality / tentacle stuff. It's about a drawing of a minor in a "sexy" way. No sexual acts at all. No kissing, no fondling, maybe cuddling. Some 16year old girls dress in a "worse" way when they go out to party. Should those be banned too?
Is stuff like this offensive and should lead to 18+ ? Especially if you consider what is shown on "normal" Japanese TV which is not banned (i.e. "Motto Onsen ni Ikou" (it's NSFW))
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On December 16 2010 17:20 johanngrunt wrote: Even One Piece has Sanji smoking, we all know that smoking isn't the best thing you could do for your health, but it's part of the character.
sometimes you need to draw a negative to reinforce the positive, good contrast is essential in fiction.
kinda dick move if you ask me, their economy is in the shitter, and they're killing their last growth asset @.@
otaku is their main export now =)
Honestly, I'm against any kind of censorship, but really? The japanese automotive industry is smaller, in your mind, than a niche form of media? Same with video games? (I know the Japanese domestic VG market is slowing down, but the exports are still going strong).
I think that's pretty amusing that you think that.
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no more bleach or one piece?
:/
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On December 16 2010 17:54 VIB wrote:Before reading this thread. I thought explicit sexual, violent and criminal content would be ok to be censored for 18+. But after reading the pedophiles' reasonings posted in this thread. Now I think it should be 25+. You guys are not being very convincing
freedom...?
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Oh, it doesn't effect live action. I see.. So it's completely retarded. Sweet. You can watch somebody get shot in a movie, but you can't watch it in a comic.
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As I understand, they aren't banning it, they are setting it to 18+. So you need your parents to get it for you. No signinificant freedom impact, since at 17- you aren't free anyways (unless you got yourself emancipated.. and in that case you are probably OK)
A bad/hypocritical idea not including live action in the same standards though.
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