12 Weeks with the Pros

First off, thanks for doing this, we all really appreciate it.

I rarely tune in live and usually just watch the VODs so I don't really get the opportunity to ask any questions. Lately something's been driving me insane about 4gate and I was hoping you may have an answer for me:

Now that phoenixes are more popular, we're seeing alot more 1base phoenix builds. It's typically 1 or 2 gates followed by a stargate and 4 phoenixes. The protoss doesn't need to take his gas early, he'll often save energy to chrono warpgate + phoenixes and he makes a zealot followed by a stalker. On top of all that, the phoenixes come out at around the 6:30-7:00 minute mark. I think you see what I'm getting at... I'm unable to differenciate both builds and a smart player will place the buildings in a way that your overlord won't see it before it dies. Just when I thought 4gates weren't an issue for me anymore, I find myself in a situation where I can't figure out if I should drone or make units.

Is this something you've discussed with your coaches? If not, could you please ask at some point? I'm tilting hard lately

thanks

juzlol Australia. February 05 2011 16:29. Posts 125

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you're amazing

MrBitter United States. February 05 2011 16:39. Posts 2854

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On February 05 2011 16:14 leb wrote:
First off, thanks for doing this, we all really appreciate it.

I rarely tune in live and usually just watch the VODs so I don't really get the opportunity to ask any questions. Lately something's been driving me insane about 4gate and I was hoping you may have an answer for me:

Now that phoenixes are more popular, we're seeing alot more 1base phoenix builds. It's typically 1 or 2 gates followed by a stargate and 4 phoenixes. The protoss doesn't need to take his gas early, he'll often save energy to chrono warpgate + phoenixes and he makes a zealot followed by a stalker. On top of all that, the phoenixes come out at around the 6:30-7:00 minute mark. I think you see what I'm getting at... I'm unable to differenciate both builds and a smart player will place the buildings in a way that your overlord won't see it before it dies. Just when I thought 4gates weren't an issue for me anymore, I find myself in a situation where I can't figure out if I should drone or make units.

Is this something you've discussed with your coaches? If not, could you please ask at some point? I'm tilting hard lately

thanks

This one's easy.

Sure, you're blind for a little bit, but you should be expecting something fishy. It's ok to say to yourself "oh shit, I'm get 4-gated", and to make your normal reaction... The thing about 4 gate, though, is that if that attack doesn't come relatively quickly, you'll know he's up to something else.

So if it looks like 4 gate, but he never attacks, and he never expands, he's obviously teching. It might sound a little strange at first, but as you play against this stuff more and more, you'll develop a feel for it...

In either case, even if you're blind until you see the phoenixes, you should still be ok. There's no reason to not get 3 queens these days, and once the phoenixes are shown, you can continue with queen production while adding a spore or two to each mineral line, droning heavily, and hitting your normal mid-game.

Just don't freak out and make a bunch of hydras. Toss is trying to dictate your mid-game tech so that he can hard-counter it with colossi. Stick to your roach/corruptor foundation, and you should be able to come out ahead.

MrBitter United States. February 06 2011 01:55. Posts 2854

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Just finalized this week's schedule, and it's looking to be a doozy:

StrifeCro on Monday
iNcontroL on Tuesday
Sheth on Wednesday
and Machine on Thursday

4 pros. 4 days. Lot's and lot's of ZvZ.

I'm excited, stoked, hyped, and pumped, but I'm sad to say, this week is going to pale in comparison to how epic Week 6 is going to be.

Last edit: 2011-02-06 03:56:16

Stil United Kingdom. February 06 2011 03:12. Posts 206

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That list looks fabulous *salutes* Can't wait

M1cha84 Germany. February 06 2011 07:01. Posts 61

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I didnt read through all 33 pages, but the video:Week 0: Foundations - ZvP with Ret
http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4616706/
seems to be broken! When you try to jump forward or after a few minutes the video stops with an error message

Carras Argentina. February 06 2011 07:28. Posts 844

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hey,yo should do one on la wzapinha! (3 roach sling all ill) or also on regular cheeses or all-ins ( like breaking a FE toss

b3serker Canada. February 06 2011 08:10. Posts 11

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Oh wow this is shaping up to be an awesome week! Is there a specific theme to this week's ZvZ or just the match up as a whole ( ZvZ 201

MrBitter United States. February 06 2011 08:41. Posts 2854

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On February 06 2011 07:28 Carras wrote:
hey,yo should do one on la wzapinha! (3 roach sling all ill) or also on regular cheeses or all-ins ( like breaking a FE toss

We've already discussed non-standard play, and in that series dicussed a hard-counter to forge FE. You can see it in the non-standard Machine VOD.

For the Ret VOD - the file is indeed a bit corrupt. If you watch it from the beginning, it will work, but skipping around causes it to glitch out.

If you want the freedom to skip around, try checking it out on YouTube.

On February 06 2011 08:10 b3serker wrote:
Oh wow this is shaping up to be an awesome week! Is there a specific theme to this week's ZvZ or just the match up as a whole ( ZvZ 201

We will hit on as much of the matchup as his humanly possible. That should turn out to be quite a bit given the time we're dedicating to it.

Last edit: 2011-02-06 08:42:26