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| AmericanUmlaut Germany. July 12 2012 17:55. Posts 2252 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 16:46 gronnelg wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 09:25 Alacar wrote:
Is the pinky the strongest finger or is this a myth? This question was brought up in a discussion about optimal hotkey layouts with the creator of 'darkgrid' and 'the core'. To rephrase the question... If you were creating an optimized hotkey layout would you bind more keys or fewer keys to the pinky and is your answer based on any science?
I used to do some rock climbing, and I'd say the middle finger is the strongest, followed by the index. Pinky is the weakest. If you're looking for an optimized keyboard layout, check out Thecore. It's backed by research, if not actual science. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878
I play the piano, and my experience is the same. When you're working out fingerings, you want to avoid using the pinky more than necessary, because it's not as strong or dexterous as the other fingers. |
| | The frumious Bandersnatch |
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| Iyerbeth England. July 12 2012 20:03. Posts 2202 | Profile Blog # |
On July 12 2012 15:01 maracuja123 wrote:I see, thats what i thought. Ty ^^  Does anyone have blizzard related link saying that? Im curious to see what exactly they say about macro keys.
It's a WoW post admitedly, but the SC2 ToS contains the same part.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/38871-seeking-blue-clarification-key-repeating/
EULA:
Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use;
![[image loading]](http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9687/macros.png) |
| | ♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ | Why choose the lesser evil? | |
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| Fidex Spain. July 12 2012 22:14. Posts 8 | Profile # |
So my question is quite simple, as leaving ZvZ.
What build continue to be safe or allows to be aggressive ¿?
11 I have been using the pool but does not leave too well. You who think? Perhaps some guide or something?
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| Maxamix Canada. July 13 2012 00:23. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 22:14 Fidex wrote:
So my question is quite simple, as leaving ZvZ.
What build continue to be safe or allows to be aggressive ¿?
11 I have been using the pool but does not leave too well. You who think? Perhaps some guide or something?
I'm not quite sure i get your question so my post will cover a lot of subjects but feel free to tell me if this not answer your initial question
As of safe build i think a 14p/14g is your safest bet. I personally like to go 15 hatch 14pool 14 gaz because i know i can hold and early pool from my opponents as of now... I would definitly recommend to 10 drone scout tho, because you can get surprised by a lot of things in ZvZ, and the 10 scout tells you if your ok to go 15 hatch or if you have to make a pool first because your opponent is going some sort of overpool build. After that you want to have an OV above your opponent's mineral lines (natural one) in order to know if he's droning or just flat out making lings. Getting a couple of speedling inside his main is also nice this if you can manage it. Speedlings and banelings can somwhat be expected in the early stages before moving on to roaches and other unit composition.
On the agressive side you have plenty of all in about speedling run-bys, roach/banes, bling/lings. I don't play that much of an all-in style myself so don't have enough practice experience to ddescribes the all-in that you might want to do. |
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| Alacar July 13 2012 02:50. Posts 15 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 16:46 gronnelg wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 09:25 Alacar wrote:
Is the pinky the strongest finger or is this a myth? This question was brought up in a discussion about optimal hotkey layouts with the creator of 'darkgrid' and 'the core'. To rephrase the question... If you were creating an optimized hotkey layout would you bind more keys or fewer keys to the pinky and is your answer based on any science?
I used to do some rock climbing, and I'd say the middle finger is the strongest, followed by the index. Pinky is the weakest. If you're looking for an optimized keyboard layout, check out Thecore. It's backed by research, if not actual science. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341878
Haha, this is the keyboard layout I was actually referring to. The designer and I got into an argument yesterday with with him claiming that it was a good idea to load the pinky up with keys to press since it is the strongest and most dexterous finger. I sent him a rather lengthy message detailing any science I could find on the matter and I don't think it will be an issue anymore.Last edit: 2012-07-13 02:50:48 |
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| Veriol Czech Republic. July 13 2012 03:57. Posts 400 | Profile # |
Today ive seen awesome thread about tvz it had cool graphics and even video promoting opening with speed reapers and medivac. Now i wanted to review it and I just cant find it i looked into every tvz thread in last 3 pages of strategy thread looked into browsing history and nothing i cant find that..
I dont know if it got deleted or what but the thread just isnt there .. if anyone seen it and could link it would be great. Thank You
(its awesome opening) |
| | "When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape." -iloveoov |
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| Fidex Spain. July 13 2012 04:06. Posts 8 | Profile # |
It's good to get in zvz mutalisk?
Considering that usually the enemy have infestor + roach.
Last edit: 2012-07-13 05:50:51 |
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| Iyerbeth England. July 13 2012 04:34. Posts 2202 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 04:06 Fidex wrote:
It's good to get in zvz mutate?
Considering that usually the enemy have infestor + roach.
If you're going to use Mutalisks you need to know what your plan with them as you're right if you just 'go' Muta you will probably lose to a Roach push with Infestors, but they can still be very good. Quite often now you'll see Muta being used in smaller numbers in the early part of their game involvement, picking off a few Drones and Queens, forcing Spores and harassing the army.
A clever technique is to send one or two muta to harass the enemy Infestors, are they going to waste energy killing one? If they throw an Infested Terran you can just leave. If you're going to harass though after Infestors are on the field you need to make sure to spread them out and ensure they stay spread out where possible. In MLG (I think) we saw like 6 Mutas hitting a Hatch spread out so far that a Fungal could only hit one at best.
This kind of harassment, and exploiting little holes in base defense can help you transition quickly in to a more standard play with an advantage. As with everything else though, don't over commit.Last edit: 2012-07-13 08:01:08 |
| | ♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ | Why choose the lesser evil? | |
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| maracuja123 Brazil. July 13 2012 07:48. Posts 409 | Profile # |
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
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Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
Last edit: 2012-07-13 07:50:25 |
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| boredrex United States. July 13 2012 07:55. Posts 119 | Profile # |
| when making mech as Terran, how does one deal with mass roach? more specifically what unit comp |
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| Slardar Canada. July 13 2012 08:01. Posts 4444 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 07:48 maracuja123 wrote:
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
-------------------------------------------
Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
I personally don't use any mouse buttons except left or right, but I can help you with the supply block temporarily.
Early on get Overlords at 9, 15-16-17 (depending on how late /greedy your pool is being placed) then 23. After two injects are able to be fully used, always build in pairs. You need burst supply, because you produce in bursts unlike other races, especially off 3 hatch. I usually will hatch 2 after the 8 larva from 2 injects (these are the larva that come out slowly after the 8) and they should pop in time for the next inject and you can make another round.
Another good tip is simple but look at your supply. Sort of like watching the minimap, especially when you're getting rushed. You need units NOW, getting blocked during a defense can wind up being a lost 3rd or outright GG. Also factor in if you're going to be losing any overlords as he/she is marching toward your base. (vulnerable overlords vs Terran.) Or if you have a huge bank (slacking macro) a few spines never hurt anybody as opposed to losing.
Hope that helps, that is all that comes to my head.
@BoreDrex - Tanks and lots of them. Mech is different, if you're losing to Roach I suggest at least camping off 2 to 3 bases and getting a critical mass of Mech before moving out. The key here in my opinion is your buildings (and Mech Damage upgrades, huge on tanks especially) You wall or make a maze with your depots, barracks, bunker anything and have hellions in the front. Normally a cluster of tanks in a good position will scare off most Zergs. Slowly add in Thors to your mix, continue upgrades (If you can't secure a fast 3rd just focus on damage, armor is not worth it IMO vs having more tanks/thors) and always harass with Hellions. Roast them drones, and hit a timing before he has Broodlords. Another Terran can please elaborate! Hope that helps. Last edit: 2012-07-13 08:05:59 |
| | @Slardarxt - Masters Zerg & Playing Dota since RoC. | |
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| boredrex United States. July 13 2012 08:04. Posts 119 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 07:48 maracuja123 wrote:
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
-------------------------------------------
Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
I use my side mouse buttons for control and shift because I hate contorting my hand to make control groups. you might want to experiment changing base Cam to a side mouse button.
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| Hellfury Canada. July 13 2012 08:27. Posts 227 | Profile # |
| If I have High Templar loaded into a Warp Prism is there any way to see how much energy they have without unloading them? |
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| maracuja123 Brazil. July 13 2012 08:58. Posts 409 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 08:01 Slardar wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 07:48 maracuja123 wrote:
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
-------------------------------------------
Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
I personally don't use any mouse buttons except left or right, but I can help you with the supply block temporarily. Early on get Overlords at 9, 15-16-17 (depending on how late /greedy your pool is being placed) then 23. After two injects are able to be fully used, always build in pairs. You need burst supply, because you produce in bursts unlike other races, especially off 3 hatch. I usually will hatch 2 after the 8 larva from 2 injects (these are the larva that come out slowly after the 8) and they should pop in time for the next inject and you can make another round. Another good tip is simple but look at your supply. Sort of like watching the minimap, especially when you're getting rushed. You need units NOW, getting blocked during a defense can wind up being a lost 3rd or outright GG. Also factor in if you're going to be losing any overlords as he/she is marching toward your base. (vulnerable overlords vs Terran.) Or if you have a huge bank (slacking macro) a few spines never hurt anybody as opposed to losing. Hope that helps, that is all that comes to my head.
i think the key to improve as zerg is inject larva and not have supply block.. the first one im kinda ok, but the second one i usually do what u said but i still suffer A LOT..
lets say i play vs FFE and i`ll make 2 fast expos.. the first 2 to 4 ovs i make i dont forget, but then i get so used to keep making drones (its rly exciting that part of the game haha) without any fear of attacks that i simply forget to make overlord
then i`ll realise i have so many larvas, so many money to spend, and supply block... its the worst feeling possible.. and that basically costs me the game...
if i ``pass`` this part, and start making roaches, the same thing happens... i have a lot of roaches, keep making them, and then suddenly im supply block with lots of larvas and almost 1k minerals..
i really try to get better regarding to make overlords, and i get rly mad when i see the supply block, but i dont see any improvments... i just forget.. even though I try... maybe im doing something wrong
zxz is even worse T_T
and u know whats ironic? i dont even know how im master with such rookie mistake  ... i guess my decision making pays off a little bit, but thats it.. mechanics are always better and making ovs is part of it
Last edit: 2012-07-13 09:04:27 |
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| Slardar Canada. July 13 2012 09:02. Posts 4444 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 08:58 maracuja123 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 08:01 Slardar wrote:
On July 13 2012 07:48 maracuja123 wrote:
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
-------------------------------------------
Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
I personally don't use any mouse buttons except left or right, but I can help you with the supply block temporarily. Early on get Overlords at 9, 15-16-17 (depending on how late /greedy your pool is being placed) then 23. After two injects are able to be fully used, always build in pairs. You need burst supply, because you produce in bursts unlike other races, especially off 3 hatch. I usually will hatch 2 after the 8 larva from 2 injects (these are the larva that come out slowly after the 8) and they should pop in time for the next inject and you can make another round. Another good tip is simple but look at your supply. Sort of like watching the minimap, especially when you're getting rushed. You need units NOW, getting blocked during a defense can wind up being a lost 3rd or outright GG. Also factor in if you're going to be losing any overlords as he/she is marching toward your base. (vulnerable overlords vs Terran.) Or if you have a huge bank (slacking macro) a few spines never hurt anybody as opposed to losing. Hope that helps, that is all that comes to my head.
i think the key to improve as zerg is inject larva and not have supply block.. the first one im kinda ok, but the second one i usually do what u said but i still suffer A LOT.. lets say i play vs FFE and i`ll make 2 fast expos.. the first 2 to 4 ovs i make i dont forget, but then i get so used to keep making drones (its rly exciting that part of the game haha) without any fear of attacks that i simply forget to make overlord then i`ll realise i have so many larvas, so many money to spend, and supply block... its the worst feeling possible.. and that basically costs me the game... if i ``pass`` this part, and start making roaches, the same thing happens... i have a lot of roaches, keep making them, and then suddenly im supply block with lots of larvas and almost 1k minerals.. i really try to get better regarding to make overlords, and i get rly mad when i see the supply block, but i dont see any improvments... i just forget.. even though I try... maybe im doing something wrong zxz is even worse T_T and u know whats ironic? i dont even know how im high master with such rookie mistake
Happens to the best of us. Ling based armies are really hard to macro efficiently, unlike Roach.
I just played a custom game on Daybreak LE vs unknown Terran player just to give you an example of how Overlords should look. I think I only got supply blocked like... once or twice for very little time throughout the whole game. It's like a mindset, you remember to make pairs or more of overlords. Then it will become natural.
Always remember to mix in overlords, don't select 8 larva and S DDDDDDDDDDDDDD. go S OVERLORD DDDDDDDD. Hope that also helps you out a bit (maybe I suck more than I think who knows, you tell me! lol) Also, are you watching your supply topright? 
http://drop.sc/220921
Last edit: 2012-07-13 09:04:56 |
| | @Slardarxt - Masters Zerg & Playing Dota since RoC. | |
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| maracuja123 Brazil. July 13 2012 09:25. Posts 409 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 09:02 Slardar wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 08:58 maracuja123 wrote:
On July 13 2012 08:01 Slardar wrote:
On July 13 2012 07:48 maracuja123 wrote:
Iyerbeth ty .. Now I`m 100% sure its rly forbidden ^^
-------------------------------------------
Guys, what do I do with my extra two side buttons I have in my mouse? Im zerg and i use the espace method to get larva (I press espace+shit+v+queen group)... so should I use the buttons to help me with that aswell or do something even more useful? I tend to get supply block like every fucking game, from beggining to late game, and that screws me up so bad... any suggestions related to that andt the buttons or anything else, like one of them being a group hotkey, or attack move, etc.?
And I know we can just say "use what fits better for you" , but still I wanna some tips to at least make me think better.
I personally don't use any mouse buttons except left or right, but I can help you with the supply block temporarily. Early on get Overlords at 9, 15-16-17 (depending on how late /greedy your pool is being placed) then 23. After two injects are able to be fully used, always build in pairs. You need burst supply, because you produce in bursts unlike other races, especially off 3 hatch. I usually will hatch 2 after the 8 larva from 2 injects (these are the larva that come out slowly after the 8) and they should pop in time for the next inject and you can make another round. Another good tip is simple but look at your supply. Sort of like watching the minimap, especially when you're getting rushed. You need units NOW, getting blocked during a defense can wind up being a lost 3rd or outright GG. Also factor in if you're going to be losing any overlords as he/she is marching toward your base. (vulnerable overlords vs Terran.) Or if you have a huge bank (slacking macro) a few spines never hurt anybody as opposed to losing. Hope that helps, that is all that comes to my head.
i think the key to improve as zerg is inject larva and not have supply block.. the first one im kinda ok, but the second one i usually do what u said but i still suffer A LOT.. lets say i play vs FFE and i`ll make 2 fast expos.. the first 2 to 4 ovs i make i dont forget, but then i get so used to keep making drones (its rly exciting that part of the game haha) without any fear of attacks that i simply forget to make overlord then i`ll realise i have so many larvas, so many money to spend, and supply block... its the worst feeling possible.. and that basically costs me the game... if i ``pass`` this part, and start making roaches, the same thing happens... i have a lot of roaches, keep making them, and then suddenly im supply block with lots of larvas and almost 1k minerals.. i really try to get better regarding to make overlords, and i get rly mad when i see the supply block, but i dont see any improvments... i just forget.. even though I try... maybe im doing something wrong zxz is even worse T_T and u know whats ironic? i dont even know how im high master with such rookie mistake
Happens to the best of us. Ling based armies are really hard to macro efficiently, unlike Roach. I just played a custom game on Daybreak LE vs unknown Terran player just to give you an example of how Overlords should look. I think I only got supply blocked like... once or twice for very little time throughout the whole game. It's like a mindset, you remember to make pairs or more of overlords. Then it will become natural. Always remember to mix in overlords, don't select 8 larva and S DDDDDDDDDDDDDD. go S OVERLORD DDDDDDDD. Hope that also helps you out a bit (maybe I suck more than I think who knows, you tell me! lol) Also, are you watching your supply topright? http://drop.sc/220921
thanks mate
the idea of doing S V first then S DD instead of S DDD or SDDV is actually really simple and smart. i guess i never really think that way and maybe can solve my problem a little bit
and yea, i usually just press S DDDDDDDDD because of the excitement LOL, and then i try to press more n more and i just realize i`m supply blocked... pressing V first is a better idea and easily to adapt
hmm, i dont usually look top right, i guess its just a feeling.. believe it or not but i find stressing (for my eyes) to look at the top right, specially when you`re a minimap focused player (i tend to use mini map a lot, even to positioning the first overlord in the game, i click in the minimap and go back by clicking in it again) but i`ll try more this stuff.. adapt is really what matters here
i watched the replay and you do have a good sense of making the overlords at the exactly good time... even though you didnt suffer any pressure, when u start making units you still didnt get supply blocked which is actually smth that even GM`s i`ve seen suffer fromLast edit: 2012-07-13 09:30:40 |
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| Maxamix Canada. July 13 2012 22:34. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 07:55 boredrex wrote:
when making mech as Terran, how does one deal with mass roach? more specifically what unit comp
Mass roach is normally the zergs responce to mech because there is nothing that deals really effectively with roaches on the mech side.
You either have to make marauders in your army, both giving time to your siege tanks to shell them and doing a good proportion of dmg with medivacs and stim. If you really don't want to go down the bio route, you can try banshee and raven (PDD + Seeker is effective VS roach) but i rarely see that transition... |
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| Maxamix Canada. July 13 2012 22:35. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 08:27 Hellfury wrote:
If I have High Templar loaded into a Warp Prism is there any way to see how much energy they have without unloading them?
I'm not sure but i think if you mouse over you might see their stats : shield / HP / energy just like when you have a bunch of sentry selected. I'll check that later on today, expect a PM around 17:00 EST |
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| Dark.EX United States. July 13 2012 22:48. Posts 1504 | Profile Blog # |
On July 13 2012 22:34 Maxamix wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 07:55 boredrex wrote:
when making mech as Terran, how does one deal with mass roach? more specifically what unit comp
Mass roach is normally the zergs responce to mech because there is nothing that deals really effectively with roaches on the mech side. You either have to make marauders in your army, both giving time to your siege tanks to shell them and doing a good proportion of dmg with medivacs and stim. If you really don't want to go down the bio route, you can try banshee and raven (PDD + Seeker is effective VS roach) but i rarely see that transition...
You don't see Raven/Banshee defence with HSM and PDD because HSM is not very cost-effective against Roaches. It's supply effective, sure, but not cost-effective, and Banshees don't do as much DPS against Roaches as Siege Tanks or Thors, plus they take a long time to build.
If you start getting Marauders, you typically need upgrades for them to be effective as well as more production facilities to actually build them, and suddenly you're going Bio-Mech, not Mech. |
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| Maxamix Canada. July 13 2012 23:02. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 22:48 Fencar wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 22:34 Maxamix wrote:
On July 13 2012 07:55 boredrex wrote:
when making mech as Terran, how does one deal with mass roach? more specifically what unit comp
Mass roach is normally the zergs responce to mech because there is nothing that deals really effectively with roaches on the mech side. You either have to make marauders in your army, both giving time to your siege tanks to shell them and doing a good proportion of dmg with medivacs and stim. If you really don't want to go down the bio route, you can try banshee and raven (PDD + Seeker is effective VS roach) but i rarely see that transition...
Actually, Siege Tanks in good positions with Hellions to buffer works to defend against mass Roach attacks. You don't see Raven/Banshee defence with HSM and PDD because HSM is not very cost-effective against Roaches. It's supply effective, sure, but not cost-effective, and Banshees don't do as much DPS against Roaches as Siege Tanks or Thors, plus they take a long time to build. If you start getting Marauders, you typically need upgrades for them to be effective as well as more production facilities to actually build them, and suddenly you're going Bio-Mech, not Mech.
I agree with most if not all what you said. Allthough the positionning on the tank is important, the original post i was referring to wanted other ways of dealing with mass roach as of units composition. If you somehow spread your tank and have some kind of buffer ( i still think unupgraded marauders will do better than BF hellions but both are viable it will work.
The idea behind the banshee was to force the zerg out of massing roaches blindly, forcing him to get hydras or something a little bit squishy that mech deal with better (hydras / mutas are well handeled by tank thors) and the said banshees(2-3) can be used to harass and snipe queens, creep tumor to slow down reinforcements, pick them off and so on...
Edit : typosLast edit: 2012-07-13 23:03:40 |
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