Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (37 users)
Active: 6491 users | |
|
| tedster February 02 2011 02:23. Posts 898 | Profile # |
My only disagreement is with Jaedong rating below Bisu, using essentially your own reasoning: both have looked mortal, Jaedong has gone far in leagues, and on top of all that Bisu has not shown the ability to go far in leagues for years now, unlike Jaedong who still has fresh medals.
Otherwise a great ranking altogether though I think Tyson is better than you give him credit for. |
| |
|
| _Quasar_ Russian Federation. February 02 2011 02:25. Posts 4404 | Profile # |
Wow didn't expect ZerO to be so low - but have to agree with all logic represented in this PR. 
You rock, flamewheel! In the probably most mind-fucking month for a power rank, still a very logical writeup ^_^ |
| | For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan. |  |
|
|
| Evs Philippines. February 02 2011 02:25. Posts 330 | Profile # |
On February 01 2011 18:25 Cpadolf wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 18:14 Evs wrote:
Why is being hot in One league suddenly favored over the other? Sorry if I question you so much on this but I have a feeling that had it been any of the TaekBang LeeSang who had won a league then they wouldn't have been ranked under a player who Only has proleague wins to show. (Even if they did show average WL performance)
Maybe not. But that's because they didn't suck last month. Jumping from not being on the PR to #2 is almost unprecedented, and its not the First time someone who won a starleague isn't #1 either. Fantasy's achievement in the OSL is very well represented on this PR imo.
Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1:
To be #1
 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league)
Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL.
Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament?
Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then.
Last edit: 2011-02-02 02:36:45 |
|
|
| StylishVODs Sweden. February 02 2011 02:31. Posts 4988 | Profile # |
It's pretty unfair to simplicify it like that Evs.
It's a hard thing to write a PR. You have to take into consideration that a PR is not only an achievement vs achievement list.
It's a list where you put everything you have together and try to evaluate who is the strongest/hottest players right now.
Imo, fantasy is NOT the strongest player in BW right now. He'd probably be 4-5 on my rank.
At the end of the day, since this is not 100% resultbased like ELO and KeSPA, PR will always be a matter of oppinion to some extent.Last edit: 2011-02-02 02:42:06 |
| | According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was. |  |
|
|
| revy United States. February 02 2011 02:45. Posts 1494 | Profile # |
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 18:25 Cpadolf wrote:
On February 01 2011 18:14 Evs wrote:
Why is being hot in One league suddenly favored over the other? Sorry if I question you so much on this but I have a feeling that had it been any of the TaekBang LeeSang who had won a league then they wouldn't have been ranked under a player who Only has proleague wins to show. (Even if they did show average WL performance)
Maybe not. But that's because they didn't suck last month. Jumping from not being on the PR to #2 is almost unprecedented, and its not the First time someone who won a starleague isn't #1 either. Fantasy's achievement in the OSL is very well represented on this PR imo.
Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league) Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. This is topped off with the extrapolation that since Flash is this good at BO1's then he would have defeated (Fantasy) others in a BoX series anway. Ergo Fantasy can't be higher than him... With such a lopsided standard Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top. We can just assume how he fares in other tournaments based on a single league's play afterall.
I believe the difference is that in the last PR Flash was rank 5 and Fantasy was not even on CBNC. The power rank always uses the last month or two to ground itself. With this in mind Flash jumped 4 places while Fanta jumped up 8+. If Fanta was ranked last PR (which indicates that he had been playing well the last few months) I think you would see a big difference at the top. Similarly we could bash Stork for dropping 0-6 but when you frame it with what he's been doing the last few months all of a sudden he doesn't look quite as bad.
IMO I would've put JD at first, he doesn't feel the strongest but he's far along in the MSL and has a decent PL win rate. He's not had the strongest competition but out of everyone I think he looks the best from a Strength/Results in Leagues/Previous Rank sense. That said I can't really fault flamewheel for Flash at first, he has dominated WL against the strongest vT opponents thus far. |
| |
|
| elf_01 United States. February 02 2011 02:49. Posts 166 | Profile Blog # |
On February 02 2011 01:13 hacklebeast wrote:
Bisu should be ranked over a player he lost 3 times to for the same reason stork should be ranked over a player he lost three times to (zero); because of the vast discrepancy in the quality of the other games. Somehow, you have managed to argue that losing six games actually helps stork, because it shows he can "rebound" Those 6 losses are huge, and you dismiss them because he managed to win a few games afterwards? Then why isn’t Reach on here? He broke an 11 game losing streak, must mean he will win the next OSL .
Stork defeats Bisu in head to head and in league advancement. His does NOT show a vast discrepancy in the quality of other games, and shows good play against other S-class (Beat JD and Bisu). His league knockouts are equally as ugly as Bisu's (or do you not remember Bisu being knocked out 0-2 and 0-2, unable to even make the Bo5 rounds). Both of them have similar records in Winners League. 10-1 for stork iirc (loss to PvP sniper Horang2's hardcounter build, wins over hydra, JD, bisu, Fantasy, reverse all kill of MBC). 15-2 for Bisu (losses to Flash and Stork IN TWO ACE MATCHES, 3 allkills, though the one over ACE is sort of easy, no wins over s-class, but some impressive wins). Overall, given that Stork equals or defeats Bisu in every category, Stork deserves his spot over Bisu. |
| | STORK//SEA | SAMSUNG KHAN! |  |
|
|
| SaetZero United States. February 02 2011 02:50. Posts 759 | Profile Blog # |
Tough Power Rank. 1-4 is crazy hard to do, and I can't shuffle them any better and not go 'Something isn't right here...'
But I don't agree with it as is.
Tough Power Rank indeed.
Top four all deserve the #1 slot for different reasons, we couldn't just format in some T-#1 placements and cut the PR to four #1's and 2-7?
:D |
| | Protoss da bess. Sage/Naniwa/Bisu/Free/Best/Parting/Nony. Baby/ForGG and Hyun/Hydra for non-protoss. |  |
|
|
| hitthat Poland. February 02 2011 02:51. Posts 1486 | Profile # |
| I'm Fantasy fanboy, and still think that putting Flash above him is fine. Fantasy is not in top form, even if he won OSL. Hell, I think that during the time, when he was playing against Flash in WCG and MSL he was in much better shape than now. Last edit: 2011-02-02 02:52:38 |
| | T- Fantasy, Sea, Leta, FBH ; Z- Zero, Great, Hyuk, Hydra...kind of ; P- Bisu, Kal /// Heroes of the past and scum of the present: Hwasin, go.go ///Legacy: BOXER OOV MISTRZZZ MIDAS |  |
|
|
| Evs Philippines. February 02 2011 03:05. Posts 330 | Profile # |
On February 02 2011 02:31 StylishVODs wrote:
It's pretty unfair to simplicify it like that Evs.
It's a hard thing to write a PR. You have to take into consideration that a PR is not only an achievement vs achievement list.
It's a list where you put everything you have together and try to evaluate who is the strongest/hottest players right now.
Flamewheel has been more than generous to Fantasy if we go by what the majority of posters in this thread had to say. That doesn't mean I won't criticize him for what I think is a flaw in the ranking's reasoning. |
|
|
| hacklebeast United States. February 02 2011 03:15. Posts 4643 | Profile Blog # |
On February 02 2011 02:49 elf_01 wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 01:13 hacklebeast wrote:
Bisu should be ranked over a player he lost 3 times to for the same reason stork should be ranked over a player he lost three times to (zero); because of the vast discrepancy in the quality of the other games. Somehow, you have managed to argue that losing six games actually helps stork, because it shows he can "rebound" Those 6 losses are huge, and you dismiss them because he managed to win a few games afterwards? Then why isn’t Reach on here? He broke an 11 game losing streak, must mean he will win the next OSL .
Stork defeats Bisu in head to head and in league advancement. His does NOT show a vast discrepancy in the quality of other games, and shows good play against other S-class (Beat JD and Bisu). His league knockouts are equally as ugly as Bisu's (or do you not remember Bisu being knocked out 0-2 and 0-2, unable to even make the Bo5 rounds). Both of them have similar records in Winners League. 10-1 for stork iirc (loss to PvP sniper Horang2's hardcounter build, wins over hydra, JD, bisu, Fantasy, reverse all kill of MBC). 15-2 for Bisu (losses to Flash and Stork IN TWO ACE MATCHES, 3 allkills, though the one over ACE is sort of easy, no wins over s-class, but some impressive wins). Overall, given that Stork equals or defeats Bisu in every category, Stork deserves his spot over Bisu.
bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo)
stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo)
Horang2 skews it a bit because his PvP is a lot better than his other stuff, but the point is clear. Bisu only lost to damn good people. Stork lost a lot (I dare to say most losses of the month, but I haven't checked that). he doesnt "defete" bisu in win percentage, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in all kills, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in quality of opponents (certainly not in the losses, but we can call it a wash overall if you want). If the power rankings are superpose to be about "hotness" or "fearsomeness", then all I can say is getting 3 all kills is fearsome, losing to horang2 is not.
And I'm not sure questioning the quality of the ace all-kill is a good idea, considering stork did some stat padding of his own with a Bo3 vs Hiya in his best MU (where he still managed to drop a game) and Bo5 vs Modesty. |
| | Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero | |
|
|
| GolemMadness Canada. February 02 2011 03:17. Posts 5259 | Profile Blog # |
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 18:25 Cpadolf wrote:
On February 01 2011 18:14 Evs wrote:
Why is being hot in One league suddenly favored over the other? Sorry if I question you so much on this but I have a feeling that had it been any of the TaekBang LeeSang who had won a league then they wouldn't have been ranked under a player who Only has proleague wins to show. (Even if they did show average WL performance)
Maybe not. But that's because they didn't suck last month. Jumping from not being on the PR to #2 is almost unprecedented, and its not the First time someone who won a starleague isn't #1 either. Fantasy's achievement in the OSL is very well represented on this PR imo.
Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league) Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament? Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then.
It only worked against him because he performed poorly in winner's league. If he'd played better, it'd have helped his ranking. |
| |
|
| HollowLord United States. February 02 2011 03:19. Posts 3649 | Profile Blog # |
| As much as the Jaedong fanboy in me wants to see him placed higher, I have to agree. I'm worried about the Dong, he just hasn't been playing like he used to. |
| | I have no idea what I'm talking about. |  |
|
|
| agarangu Chile. February 02 2011 03:41. Posts 273 | Profile Blog # |
Whoa, it seems to be really hard to be a PR writer. Everyone wants their favorite player to be in the first place, but the PR is about who is the best player of the month, right?
And those saying that Flash's place is undeserved, should see his recent games on youtube. He's been wining like he was playing against noobs (like his recent victory over Light). And he has defeated everybody on the league, including the rest of the players on the PR (unlike Bisu who still can't beat Stork). |
| | What's a quote anyway? | |
|
|
 tree.hugger Saint Paul, MN. February 02 2011 03:42. Posts 9078 | Profile Blog # |
| Great diplomatic power rank. These are truly exciting times to be a fan of BW. I feel as though the top eight players on this ranking could all beat each other. So much talent has sprung up after the two horse race last summer. |
| | (-_(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-)_-) — "The girl was like.... omg effort is so hot, if he can do that with his zerlings i can just imagine what he can do with me lololol" - Heaven_n — EffOrt, Snow, PartinG, HerO, Snute, BK, GuMiho fighting! — @treehuggertl |  |
|
|
| SkelA Macedonia. February 02 2011 03:43. Posts 7745 | Profile Blog # |
On February 02 2011 03:15 hacklebeast wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 02 2011 02:49 elf_01 wrote:
On February 02 2011 01:13 hacklebeast wrote:
Bisu should be ranked over a player he lost 3 times to for the same reason stork should be ranked over a player he lost three times to (zero); because of the vast discrepancy in the quality of the other games. Somehow, you have managed to argue that losing six games actually helps stork, because it shows he can "rebound" Those 6 losses are huge, and you dismiss them because he managed to win a few games afterwards? Then why isn’t Reach on here? He broke an 11 game losing streak, must mean he will win the next OSL .
Stork defeats Bisu in head to head and in league advancement. His does NOT show a vast discrepancy in the quality of other games, and shows good play against other S-class (Beat JD and Bisu). His league knockouts are equally as ugly as Bisu's (or do you not remember Bisu being knocked out 0-2 and 0-2, unable to even make the Bo5 rounds). Both of them have similar records in Winners League. 10-1 for stork iirc (loss to PvP sniper Horang2's hardcounter build, wins over hydra, JD, bisu, Fantasy, reverse all kill of MBC). 15-2 for Bisu (losses to Flash and Stork IN TWO ACE MATCHES, 3 allkills, though the one over ACE is sort of easy, no wins over s-class, but some impressive wins). Overall, given that Stork equals or defeats Bisu in every category, Stork deserves his spot over Bisu.
bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo) stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo) Horang2 skews it a bit because his PvP is a lot better than his other stuff, but the point is clear. Bisu only lost to damn good people. Stork lost a lot (I dare to say most losses of the month, but I haven't checked that). he doesnt "defete" bisu in win percentage, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in all kills, he doesn't "defeat" Bisu in quality of opponents (certainly not in the losses, but we can call it a wash overall if you want). If the power rankings are superpose to be about "hotness" or "fearsomeness", then all I can say is getting 3 all kills is fearsome, losing to horang2 is not. And I'm not sure questioning the quality of the ace all-kill is a good idea, considering stork did some stat padding of his own with a Bo3 vs Hiya in his best MU (where he still managed to drop a game) and Bo5 vs Modesty.
You are wrong in most of your opinions.
Stork indeed lost to Fantasy and Zero who are both 2nd best TvP and ZvP players right now and his loss to horang2 was a pure snipe The week when he played those games he had personal issues and not to mention Fantasy prepared so hard to counter Stork so much that he forgot how to play against other Protoss and Zero well he just plays most awesome SC out of all zerg in my opinion if he is on top of his game.
Bisu lost only Stork x3 and Flash but the quality of his oponents are indeed worse if you compare it with Stork and Flash oponents just on WL games. If you cant realise this then you have no idea about SC.
Bisu gets 3 AK ( but I dont think Ace AK should be counted lol -.- ) and Stork gets 1reverse AK. Now lets see ... Bisu gets played constanly in 1st or 2nd position on SKT and Stork was 4th/Ace every game he played so there is less chance for AK than for example Bisu. And not to mention SKT supporting players and even Fantasy kinda suck lately compared to KHAN.
And at last for you its better not to get far in SL and just own random scrubs in bo1 and lose to S class players in WL against going far in SL and lose badly against S oponents and still owning random scrubs + S class players in WL?
Is this even a contest? I think not.
Last edit: 2011-02-02 03:46:33 |
| | Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ... | |
|
|
| reincremate Canada. February 02 2011 04:46. Posts 1702 | Profile Blog # |
| Great write-up. What a month it's been... |
| |
|
| TwoToneTerran United States. February 02 2011 04:52. Posts 7991 | Profile # |
On February 02 2011 02:25 Evs wrote:
Show nested quote +On February 01 2011 18:25 Cpadolf wrote:
On February 01 2011 18:14 Evs wrote:
Why is being hot in One league suddenly favored over the other? Sorry if I question you so much on this but I have a feeling that had it been any of the TaekBang LeeSang who had won a league then they wouldn't have been ranked under a player who Only has proleague wins to show. (Even if they did show average WL performance)
Maybe not. But that's because they didn't suck last month. Jumping from not being on the PR to #2 is almost unprecedented, and its not the First time someone who won a starleague isn't #1 either. Fantasy's achievement in the OSL is very well represented on this PR imo.
Well represented at #2 but my question is the qualifier for #1: To be #1 Flash had to : perform well in WL (no participation in any other league) Fantasy had to : get the OSL gold, and perform well in WL. Being in 2 leagues actually worked against Fantasy here? Not advancing deep enough to participate in BOXs helped cement Flash's dominance in the scene? Because his BO1 record is enough to extrapolate the results of a BOX in an individual tournament? Such a lopsided standard means that Flash only needs to be dominant in one league at any given time to continue staying on top then.
Nope, actually all fantasy had to do was not suck in every single game that wasn't the OSL finals. Even the games he won were absolute garbage.
But he did absolutely crush Stork.
|
| | Remember Violet. | |
|
|
| Inzek Chile. February 02 2011 04:58. Posts 787 | Profile Blog # |
i can totally understand flamewheel's logic...
mostly if a i had to bet for one player against the others, i will surely put all my money on flash (actually on jd but just cuz im a fanboy), next on stork, next on jd, next on bisu and then fantasy... i just cant feel scared with fantasy.
But you cant deny that fantasy won an OSL and that has to count for something (hence i understand flame's logic)...
under top 5 is just meaningless for me, my 2 fav players are top5 (stork, jd) so, good PR |
| | Stork FAN!!! | |
|
|
| Gummy United States. February 02 2011 05:04. Posts 2169 | Profile Blog # |
| For the most part, the play at the top is just beautiful right now. If JD bs snow had been in the finals instead of ro8, I woulda been super happy. But zvzvzvz is going to be a shitshow. Good job flamewheel! |
| | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't. | |
|
|
| Musoeun United States. February 02 2011 05:12. Posts 4324 | Profile Blog # |
On February 02 2011 03:15 hacklebeast wrote:
bisu: 15-4 losses to #1 player (in elo) and #1 protoss (other than himself in elo)
stork 16-8 losses to #6, #7 #21 and # 35 (in elo)...
Here, let's over-analyze further:
 Bisu: 15-4 (0-3 MSL, 15-1 WL)
Stork: 16-8 (4-4 OSL, 2-3 MSL, 10-1 WL)
Head to head: Bisu 0-4 Stork
One Common Opponent:  ZerO (Bisu 1-0, Stork 0-3)
And for the hell of it, opponents vs P ELO (note: I'm using current ELO so results will be a little skewed):
Bisu
By.Baby (#29, 2068), Bogus (#10, 2121), Brave (#20, 2091), Calm (#5, 2168), firebathero (#50, 2024), Flash (#1, 2321), ggaemo (#55, 2021), hero (#40, 2045), Iris (#22, 2085), JangBi (#21, 2088), Kal (#14, 2107), M18M (#34, 2056), Pure (#18, 2096), RorO (#13, 2110), Shine (#32, 2067), Stork x3 (#17, 2100), ZerO (#6, 2168)
Average ranking: 22.16
Average rating: 2102 (=#16)
Stork
Alone (#62, 1997), Bisu x3 (#4, 2185), Fantasy x4 (#3, 2200), HiyA x2 (#16, 2102), Horang2 (#8, 2137), Hydra (#9, 2129), HyuN (#49, 2026), Jaedong (#2, 2254), Jaehoon (#78, 1980), Killer (#58, 2016), Modesty x3 (#85, 1969), Sea (#7, 2156), Tyson (#31, 2067), ZerO (#6, 2168) x3
Average ranking: 26.38
Average rating: 2113.83 (#12 > x > #13)
aaaaand the result is inconclusive. Rank or rating? You decide.
More fun:
Bisu's vs rank: #4 (2185) vs P, #7 (2178) vs T, #3 (2276) vs Z. Comparing ranks/ratings, Bisu would have been expected to lose 1 game against the opponents he faced (Flash, loss) but lost 4 (3 losses to Stork). 3 unpredicted losses.
Stork's vs rank: #17 (2100) vs P, #3 (2210) vs T, #5 (2186) vs Z. Comparing ranks/ratings, Stork would have been expected to lose 9 games against the opponents he faced* (Jaedong, win; fantasy, 1-3; Bisu, 3-0; Horang2, loss), but lost 8 (ZerO, 0-3, HiyA 1-1). 5 unpredicted wins, 4 unpredicted losses.
And I still have no idea. BUT - numbers!
* Not sure how to deal with fantasy here. His rating's clearly a little higher than it was due to the 3-0, but with a loss to Horang2 deflating it I'm not sure how much higher, so I'm avoiding speculation and just running with the numbers I've got.Last edit: 2011-02-02 05:13:34 |
| | Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting. | |
|
|
| Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Next All |
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
WCS
SC2Links Mobile App …
