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| Audemed December 07 2011 06:08. Posts 592 | Profile # |
| So, about 3 weeks ago I bumped from plat (3 full seasons) to diamond, and now I'm playing top diamond and low/mid masters exclusively. Is there anything about a recent promotion that would make me less likely to bump up to masters before season's end? |
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| aksfjh United States. December 07 2011 21:58. Posts 3513 | Profile # |
On December 07 2011 06:08 Audemed wrote:
So, about 3 weeks ago I bumped from plat (3 full seasons) to diamond, and now I'm playing top diamond and low/mid masters exclusively. Is there anything about a recent promotion that would make me less likely to bump up to masters before season's end?
Nope. However, this is by far the hardest promotion for many. While you were able to keep playing people better than the last and not see much of a difference, as it gets into these extreme ends of the scale, you'll probably hit a wall before getting into the range of promotion. It's likely to feel like the system is holding you back, but it's really just harder to push into that certainty of promotion range at this level of play. |
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 Dhalphir Australia. December 09 2011 16:44. Posts 1305 | Profile Blog # |
I have a question that I'm sure has come up.
Regarding the points that you receive when being promoted or demoted from a league.
Has it ever been discovered why the number 73 was chosen to add to spent bonus pool for the total? is it just what is known as a "magic number" or is there a reason for it being so specific and not a nicer round number like 100? |
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| Keyboard Warrior United States. December 18 2011 08:53. Posts 999 | Profile # |
Thanks for the hard work on this OP.
Now I fully understand |
| | Not your regular Keyboard Warrior ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |  |
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| Gr1nch December 19 2011 11:51. Posts 1 | Profile # |
| Thanks a ton guys, this helped |
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| fatalities United States. December 20 2011 10:09. Posts 91 | Profile # |
| Does MMR change during season lock? Right before the lock, I went on a long lose streak and was facing gold players (I'm in platinum). Now, I've been beating them for a while with around a 70% winrate, but I still keep facing gold players. |
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| Yoshi Kirishima United States. December 20 2011 13:17. Posts 9003 | Profile Blog # |
On December 20 2011 10:09 fatalities wrote:
Does MMR change during season lock? Right before the lock, I went on a long lose streak and was facing gold players (I'm in platinum). Now, I've been beating them for a while with around a 70% winrate, but I still keep facing gold players.
Yes. Since you have a 70% winrate against them you might not be demoted. Keep playing games just in case, or else you might start in gold next season is what I'll suggest. |
| | Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again." |  |
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| Malpractice.248 United States. December 21 2011 06:49. Posts 698 | Profile Blog # |
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons. |
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 Excalibur_Z United States. December 21 2011 07:28. Posts 10293 | Profile # |
On December 21 2011 06:49 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons.
This question gets asked so many times at the beginning of a season. Anytime a player changes leagues mid-season, their points are reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. Someone tell this guy too :> |
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| SDream Brazil. December 21 2011 07:38. Posts 896 | Profile Blog # |
On December 21 2011 07:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 06:49 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons.
This question gets asked so many times at the beginning of a season. Anytime a player changes leagues mid-season, their points are reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. Someone tell this guy too :>
Autenticator problem or BAN? 
Anyway, done |
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| Excalibur_Z United States. December 21 2011 07:54. Posts 10293 | Profile # |
On December 21 2011 07:38 SDream wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 21 2011 06:49 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons.
This question gets asked so many times at the beginning of a season. Anytime a player changes leagues mid-season, their points are reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. Someone tell this guy too :>
Autenticator problem or BAN? Anyway, done
haha. The forums require an authenticator and I don't carry mine around with me, I keep it at home. Pretty silly because they removed the authenticator requirement from "frequently accessed" stations for games but I guess still not for forums. |
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| Malpractice.248 United States. December 21 2011 08:06. Posts 698 | Profile Blog # |
On December 21 2011 07:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 06:49 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons.
This question gets asked so many times at the beginning of a season. Anytime a player changes leagues mid-season, their points are reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. Someone tell this guy too :>
...On the first day of the season? o.O |
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| voy Poland. December 23 2011 00:01. Posts 344 | Profile Blog # |
Season4 no games at all, now in season 5 - 5 placement matches in every matchup, MMR is gone. System works  |
| | I'm a man with a dream. And I look good in jeans. graphic designer looking for freelance work. |
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| fatalities United States. December 23 2011 03:42. Posts 91 | Profile # |
another (more vague) question:
how long does it take my mmr to rise say, one league? I'm not particularly worried about getting promoted, but the reason I'm wondering is because I've gone 27-9 lately (not counting placement match), starting from low platinum, and 11-1 after the new season start, from mid platinum(?). I've only played one diamond so far, and that was like 10 games ago (after the new season start, too)Last edit: 2011-12-23 03:44:06 |
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| Excalibur_Z United States. December 23 2011 04:30. Posts 10293 | Profile # |
On December 23 2011 03:42 fatalities wrote:
another (more vague) question:
how long does it take my mmr to rise say, one league? I'm not particularly worried about getting promoted, but the reason I'm wondering is because I've gone 27-9 lately (not counting placement match), starting from low platinum, and 11-1 after the new season start, from mid platinum(?). I've only played one diamond so far, and that was like 10 games ago (after the new season start, too)
If you've been pretty stable at a certain MMR, it can take quite a few unexpected outcomes (commonly "streaks") before you find yourself playing against players from other leagues.
On December 21 2011 08:06 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 07:28 Excalibur_Z wrote:
On December 21 2011 06:49 Malpractice.248 wrote:
Care to explain why theres a player in my division *(master league)
That was diamond last season, masters this season. he lost 4. Then won 1. for 74 points. vs a 6-6 player, who was low masters last season....
People get so many points somehow at the start of these seasons.
This question gets asked so many times at the beginning of a season. Anytime a player changes leagues mid-season, their points are reset to 73 + spent bonus pool. Someone tell this guy too :>
...On the first day of the season? o.O
Yes, absolutely. If you get placed in a league, but your MMR is around the very top or very bottom of a league, then your next game will move you.Last edit: 2011-12-23 04:32:27 |
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| peonsc2 Canada. December 23 2011 04:45. Posts 9 | Profile # |
| great thread thanks for al the hard work |
| | Marines are the counter to banelings |
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| Amui Canada. December 26 2011 18:20. Posts 3173 | Profile Blog # |
On December 23 2011 03:42 fatalities wrote:
another (more vague) question:
how long does it take my mmr to rise say, one league? I'm not particularly worried about getting promoted, but the reason I'm wondering is because I've gone 27-9 lately (not counting placement match), starting from low platinum, and 11-1 after the new season start, from mid platinum(?). I've only played one diamond so far, and that was like 10 games ago (after the new season start, too)
I was middle of masters last season, before I stopped playing for a month because of school. When I came back I lost something like 30 games in a row, was playing high diamonds by the end of it, and still placed into masters this season. Dropping or raising leagues can take a very, very long time, especially for accounts with more games played. |
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| Macpo December 26 2011 18:57. Posts 453 | Profile # |
I have a question, sorry if it has been answered before, but i couldn't find it in the OP.
It's about the meaning of being in the higher or lower tier of a league. I basically have the impression it does not necessarily mean that you are good or bad; rather that your are getting better or worse (or to tell it differently, that MMR and ranking are two very different indicators, ranking is not a proxy of MMR).
For instance, let's assume that a player A has a MMR at a value of X in master. he wins ten games and loses ten. he therefore has a number of points P (around the bonus pool he got) . Now, let's assume a player B in masters, who has a MMR of X+ Y. He is better than player B, proportionnally to Y. let's assume that he also wins ten games and loses ten. As he is paired with better players,there is no reason for him to win more games than a lower player, so this is very likely to happen. His number of points P' therefore is very close to P, and in the league, the rankings of players A and B are very similar ( For instance, they are both 40th or so in their league).
So, player B could be much better than player A (actually the value of Y doesn't matter at all at first sight), but due to the fact that he plays against better players, they can be ranked at the same level. Rank indicates that you are getting better or worse, not that you are good or bad.
The only situation in which I would see this not work is at the very top and bottom of player pool, as then you cannot be paired against equivalent ranked players, and therefore being good (in case of high master) or bad (in case of lower bronze) implies that you have a win/loss ratio tendancially different from 50% on the long term, and therefore in itself implies a position at the top or bottom of your league.
Am I right?
Another mystery to me, maybe linked to the first one: How can someone with 10 win 18 losses or 19 win 32 losses be ahead in rankings of someone who is 18 wins and 11 losses? I am curious
(and this very fact kind of seems to invalidate the previous analyses: 2 identical win loss ratios don't imply necessarily identical rankings)
Thanks
Last edit: 2011-12-26 19:24:31 |
| | "Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze |
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| Azzur Australia. December 26 2011 19:27. Posts 5852 | Profile Blog # |
On December 26 2011 18:57 Macpo wrote:I have a question, sorry if it has been answered before, but i couldn't find it in the OP. It's about the meaning of being in the higher or lower tier of a league. I basically have the impression it does not necessarily mean that you are good or bad; rather that your are getting better or worse (or to tell it differently, that MMR and ranking are two very different indicators, ranking is not a proxy of MMR). For instance, let's assume that a player A has a MMR at a value of X in master. he wins ten games and loses ten. he therefore has a number of points P (around the bonus pool he got) . Now, let's assume a player B in masters, who has a MMR of X+ Y. He is better than player B, proportionnally to Y. let's assume that he also wins ten games and loses ten. As he is paired with better players,there is no reason for him to win more games than a lower player, so this is very likely to happen. His number of points P' therefore is very close to P, and in the league, the rankings of players A and B are very similar ( For instance, they are both 40th or so in their league). So, player B could be much better than player A (actually the value of Y doesn't matter at all at first sight), but due to the fact that he plays against better players, they can be ranked at the same level. Rank indicates that you are getting better or worse, not that you are good or bad. The only situation in which I would see this not work is at the very top and bottom of player pool, as then you cannot be paired against equivalent ranked players, and therefore being good (in case of high master) or bad (in case of lower bronze) implies that you have a win/loss ratio tendancially different from 50% on the long term, and therefore in itself implies a position at the top or bottom of your league. Am I right? Another mystery to me, maybe linked to the first one: How can someone with 10 win 18 losses or 19 win 32 losses be ahead in rankings of someone who is 18 wins and 11 losses? I am curious (and this very fact kind of seems to invalidate the previous analyses: 2 identical win loss ratios don't imply necessarily identical rankings) Thanks
I bolded the part where you have a mis-understanding of the ladder system. If player B has a high MMR, at the start of the season, since the number of points has not converged to MMR yet, the amount won/loss per game will be disproportionate compared to player A (i.e. player B will get more per win, and lose less per loss).
As for the rank in their division, that is quite arbitrary - however, it is known that Master league is not tiered, so you can compare their points for who is better. Basically, win/loss is not a good measure of skill (unless the player is very high master or in GM). As an aside, you'll see many players who spout nonsense about their good win ratios, when someone who is far better than them (but not pro-level) can have negative win ratios. Also, if you're interested, it has been shown that these players who are just below pro-level will frequently start off with negative win/loss records.
As for your question:
Another mystery to me, maybe linked to the first one: How can someone with 10 win 18 losses or 19 win 32 losses be ahead in rankings of someone who is 18 wins and 11 losses? I am curious (and this very fact kind of seems to invalidate the previous analyses: 2 identical win loss ratios don't imply necessarily identical rankings)
As explained above, someone with 10-18 could have played pro's and hence they received alot of points for each win and don't lose many for each loss. In the OP, the number of points won/loss for game is determined by a player's current points vs opponent MMR.Last edit: 2011-12-26 19:33:31 |
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| wooscums United States. December 26 2011 19:37. Posts 13 | Profile # |
At the end of a season, an active player's MMR will be carried over to the next. If they do not play any matches in the current season, however, and are not placed, the MMR will not carry over into a third season, effectively starting them fresh in the system.
Hello I'm a NA master protoss but for the past 4-5 months I have been studying abroad in Vietnam, so I haven't really been able to play ladder at all (internet here is really bad). Anyway, going from the statement above, how does "fresh" MMR work because since I've been here, 2 seasons have passed without me playing a ladder game and according to the OP, my MMR will not carry over. When I come back on Dec. 31st and play my first ladder game in 2 seasons, will I have to play 5 placement matches again? or will 1 just determine my new MMR since my old one is not carried over? thanks! |
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