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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

Forum Index > Sports & Games 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71
 
 beef42   Denmark. February 25 2011 17:46. Posts 524
Profile # 
I know there's a very old Roguelike thread that talks about this, but since it deals with roguelikes generally, and since nobody will ever see it, I think (hope) I can make a new thread about DCSS.

[image loading]
This crawler found the elusive orb...

DCSS is a fork of the ancient and legendary Linley's Dungeon Crawl game. It's under active development, and in my humble opinion the best roguelike available to play today. The object of the game is to dive into a massive dungeon complex and retrieve the Orb of Zot. Along the way, you will face many dangers ranging from gangs of orcs to the wrath of the divine.

Notable (read: awesome) features include:

- A metric buttload of races and backgrounds
- A large pantheon of very different gods to further differentiate your characters
- High difficulty and permadeath (as the genre prescribes)
- A very random dungeon generator
- Some of the coolest magic in any game ever
- Incredibly well-designed interface
- Active development
- Online play
- BLOOD AND SOULS FOR MAKHLEB!

Interested? Visit the fine establishment at CDO to find out more. I can highly recommend playing online by ssh'ing to crawl.develz.org. That way you can play the in-development Trunk version, and get all the updates without having to constantly update your game.

For spoilers, consult the omniscient knowledge bots at either the aforementioned website, or by irc in ##crawl at Freenode.

I hope this thread can coax out a few Crawling TLers, and maybe we can trade war stories, hilarious deaths and more with each other. Even better, I hope to inspire new players to take on this fantastic game.

ProTips


+ Show Spoiler [KoBe] +

+ Show Spoiler [DDNe] +

+ Show Spoiler [DEWz] +

+ Show Spoiler [SpEn] +

+ Show Spoiler [srulz on the GhFi] +

+ Show Spoiler [crate on the HOHe/Elyvilon] +

+ Show Spoiler [About identification] +

+ Show Spoiler [crate on stats] +

+ Show Spoiler [Xiberia on branch order] +

+ Show Spoiler [crate on Fedhas] +
Last edit: 2012-03-15 21:55:17
former #teamliquid denizen, in forum rehab
Old Post

  ]343[   United States. September 02 2011 05:07. Posts 8153Profile Blog # 
HI I was going to try to make this thread (for a month or so by now...), but I am lazy as hell (read: didn't want to make an OP). And I guess I was too retarded to use the search function until today...

anyway, I've been playing this game for a few months now ... it's really damn good. I'm still really bad (haven't made it beyond Elf: 1 [elf blasted me with wand of disintegration] or Shoals: 3 [mesmerized and swarmed by merfolk]... -_-), so I'm hoping some people who've actually beaten the game can post here and give me some tips... (though I suppose most of my deaths are from sheer stupidity lol. Last game, I was a SpVM and dove into 3 Oklob plants for a spellbook... LOL)

Also, since I'm a huge noob, I've been using Tiles (download here), which provides a nice GUI for those who aren't used to looking at a cyan "o" and instantly telling what it is (orc warrior, maybe? nope, orc warlord T.T) Furthermore, there's a nice wiki on Crawl to help you when you're just starting (and even beyond that, it's a nice reference.)

Anyway, bump bump bump! Come and help me, TL crawlers!
move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3
Old Post

 
 crate   United States. September 02 2011 05:32. Posts 1921
Profile Blog # 
If you want advice I can give some, but specific questions are definitely more helpful to ask and easier to answer than general stuff.

I think I have about seven wins, one an all-rune win (and naturally hundreds upon hundreds of deaths) since I started playing at around the 0.4 release. None particularly recently but I haven't played that much recently either. My most recent win was on 0.7 IIRC (SpEn) and I frittered away a fairly recent (0.8.x release) SETm of Chei because I wanted to get more runes and underestimated just how debilitating slow movement can be around 1's and &'s that can torment. (Considering I basically two-hit Orbs of Fire I wasn't scared of Zot on that run, and even when I died it was because I didn't realize the 1 that killed me was still around ... statue form plus Chei attribute boosts is pretty beefy.) So I count that one as almost a win in spirit, along with a few of my old HECr attempts that likewise could've won a three-rune victory easily but died striving for more runes.

My most recent games tended to hit a roadblock about when I found the Vaults. I'm pretty good at getting to that point by now, but the difficulty jump going into the Vaults is pretty significant for a lot of characters (too much open space and c packs) so I have trouble there (and perhaps I just don't respect the enemies enough by that time because I've just breezed through the rest of the game without too much trouble so I get in bad habits of not using all my resources).

One thing I do particularly like is something I recall seeing someone else post somewhere: The first thing Crawl teaches you is to conserve resources. The second thing Crawl teaches you is not to conserve resources. I think it's pretty fitting.

The game is a lot of fun, and if you learn from your deaths you'll find that it's quite fair and basically every game is winnable if you play properly. Of course, it's punishing enough that making the wrong decision on just one turn can get you killed.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Old Post

  ]343[   United States. September 02 2011 05:52. Posts 8153Profile Blog # 
The characters I've tried most are TrBe, HOPr, and SPVm/AE/En. I suspect most of my deaths are just from pure stupidity... pausing to hit a berserking unique when I still had a blink scroll left, continuing to wield a +mut randart, charging an electric eel while a level 10 spriggan, getting surrounded by a cyclops and his sheep and berserking into a corner... lawl. Oh and pissing off Beogh when I have an orc knight and 3 orc warriors around me...

Also, I feel this strange obligation to try to kill everything I see (unless it looks way stronger than me). I suspect this is a terrible idea? I tend to rely on autoexplore too much, so instead of just diving through a level I always try to clear the whole thing... heh.

On a more specific note, what are good gods for SPVm/AE, and En? I usually try to get Kiku or Vehumet.
Last edit: 2011-09-02 05:53:56
move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3
Old Post

 
 crate   United States. September 02 2011 06:14. Posts 1921
Profile Blog # 

On September 02 2011 05:52 ]343[ wrote:
The characters I've tried most are TrBe, HOPr, and SPVm/AE/En.

Trolls are really strong early game but lose steam fast. It doesn't take too long for their terrible AC and EV to catch up with you and then you'll find you're actually pretty squishy despite your huge HP total.

HOPr is a good, strong race/class combo all game; and SpEn might be the new "easy mode" insofar as Crawl has one of those. But casters are in general trickier to play because you have more options ... and need to learn to maximize that fact.


Also, I feel this strange obligation to try to kill everything I see (unless it looks way stronger than me). I suspect this is a terrible idea? I tend to rely on autoexplore too much, so instead of just diving through a level I always try to clear the whole thing... heh.


Yes, there are some things you shouldn't try to kill. Many uniques fall into this category; Hydras if you don't have a plan or attack wands, etc. You'll learn what to avoid with experience.

There is nothing at all wrong with using autoexplore for every level. I map out as much of each floor as I can as well, unless I've run into and awakened something really dangerous (classic example is Sigmund early on, though he's not actually the scariest early-DL unique any more).


On a more specific note, what are good gods for SPVm/AE, and En? I usually try to get Kiku or Vehumet.

The short answer: I'd probably grab Vehumet or Sif Muna for SpVM; Sif or Yredelemnul or maybe Nemelex for SpAE; Nemelex or Yredelemnul for SpEn. But these are personal preference.

Longer answer:

Vehumet doesn't really fit most AE or EN; he's more suited to Cj, Su, or FE than anything else. He only gives conjurations/summoning boosts. Air magic is more defensive than offensive, and enchantments lend themselves to a very stabby playstyle. He fits VM fairly well, but I don't play them terribly much myself (they're a fine class I just don't like it).

Kiku is always an okay choice for casters who want to branch into necromancy, and necromancy is a super strong magic school (almost certainly the single most powerful now that enchantments is broken up into charms and hexes) so that's not a bad choice, but she doesn't give you much power right away.

Okawaru is straightforward and powerful for anyone who hits stuff to kill it. Sif Muna is the straightforward and useful general-magic god, though I find her pretty boring so I don't worship her much. Makhleb is a straightforward god who gives you ranged attacks (and riskier summons); he's not often useful for spellcasters but is nice for melee characters who want something ranged, or for an easy way to train Invocations before switching to another god (though divine wrath is not a particularly fun thing to deal with).

Yredelemnul is maybe my usual fallback god, since you get powerful abilities fairly quickly and she stays strong until Zot. You also don't need to devote tons of experience to Invocations to make zombies (though it's good for Drain Life of course). She's redundant for characters into necromancy but useful for basically anyone else (and surprisingly synergistic with enchanters, in my opinion).

Beogh is the obvious choice for HOPr, since it's the big selling point of the combination.

I would advise staying away from Nemelex, Xom, Zin, Jivya, and maybe The Shining One for now since they're either weak early; weak in general; or trickier than other gods. They can be fun to play around with (Xom especially guarantees interesting games) but they're probably not ideal for winning, if that's what you're after.

The rest of the gods either I don't personally find interesting or for other reasons don't have much to say about. Others will probably have different opinions from me.

I don't know a lot about Ashenzari and I'm still undecided on how good Fedhas is.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Old Post

  ]343[   United States. September 02 2011 09:30. Posts 8153Profile Blog # 
Thanks! I thought of a few more questions in the meantime...

1) How quickly do you play the game? I'm unfortunately impatient, and I tend to do stupid things like hold down "j," sometimes leading to stupid deaths. I guess I should realize this is a turn-based game...

2) When playing SpEn (or other spriggan classes, really), what stats do you like to get? I often try to get Str at level 3 because I really like being able to carry stuff XD, and afterwards I get straight Int to reduce spell hunger.

3) Stashes... how do they work? I realize they're pretty necessary, but where are good places to put stashes? I've become deathly afraid of jellies @_@
move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3
Old Post

 
 crate   United States. September 02 2011 09:57. Posts 1921
Profile Blog # 

On September 02 2011 09:30 ]343[ wrote:
Thanks! I thought of a few more questions in the meantime...

1) How quickly do you play the game? I'm unfortunately impatient, and I tend to do stupid things like hold down "j," sometimes leading to stupid deaths. I guess I should realize this is a turn-based game...


Pressing "J" (not "j") will move left repeatedly until something happens (forked path, enemy, wall, etc.). Use the map and travel a lot too. Don't lean on a key, that's a good way to die.

I tend to play fairly quickly and it still gets me killed a fair amount (especially when I come across a unique that I'm not yet familiar with, and then I lose half my hp in one round but don't notice).


2) When playing SpEn (or other spriggan classes, really), what stats do you like to get? I often try to get Str at level 3 because I really like being able to carry stuff XD, and afterwards I get straight Int to reduce spell hunger.


It's not that big a deal in most cases. Int does the most for you in general if you're a spellcaster. Str is really only important for carrying capacity unless you use transmutations (Blade Hands, Statue Form, and Dragon Form in particular). Dex gives some EV boost which is nice.

I still tend to get my stats to 8 before I start pouring everything into Int though.

I think the devteam is planning on making stats mean more eventually, but right now your skills are about an order of magnitude more important than your stats in most cases (in short: Int is noticeable; Dex is kind of noticeable; Str is completely not noticeable except for carrying or transformations).


3) Stashes... how do they work? I realize they're pretty necessary, but where are good places to put stashes? I've become deathly afraid of jellies @_@

The Temple is the first obvious place. The first floors of other branches are convenient also.

Temple and the Hell vestibule are completely safe stash locations. Lair and Hive are safe unless you get a monster that "spawns" from the floor above. However many players advocate the "stash items on the floor anywhere" method, which tends to work fine as long as you've checked the floor once for jellies and not found them.

As long as it's somewhere you won't be spending a ton of time it's most likely safe. I use Temple, Lair: 1, and Hive: 1 myself most of the time.
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Old Post

 
 myopia   United States. September 02 2011 13:35. Posts 2260
Profile Blog # 
I played this for a few months, but ended up going back to slash'em. DCSS has a great UI and a lot of cool ideas, but it's missing that ol' nethack imbalanced insanity charm.

Just one example: ghosts vs. bones files. One is a pain to deal with and may very well kill you while giving nothing back but experience, the other is christmas coming early.


don't listen to old me, NetHack is a bad game, DCSS is best game.
Last edit: 2012-02-20 09:38:12
it's my first day
Old Post

  flamewheel   HANG KANG. September 02 2011 13:38. Posts 21515Profile Blog # 
Somehow algebra I knew you would be the first to post in this thread.
Clouds are making way for me.
Old Post

 
 beef42   Denmark. September 02 2011 16:15. Posts 524
Profile # 
I'm going to completely contradict the advice given earlier and heartily recommend Nemelex for beginner SpEn's for one simple reason: he's incredibly powerful.

What you want to do is simply sacrifice every single item in the dungeon that you cannot or will not use. For a SpEn this is everything but consumables, short blades and robes.

Early on, you'll be sacrificing a lot of corpses. This will skew the gift weights is favor of giving you decks of summoning. Decks of summoning are massively powerful. I've had one single legendary card of the Herd completely clear a lair level for me while I run behind and hoover up all the items.

The key to using Nemelex is not to be stingy with the cards. Using up a deck awards piety, so the more stuff you sac, the more cards you'll get; the more cards you get, the more you'll use, and the more cards you'll get.

Be careful with the decks of destruction. They're useless at best and extremely dangerous at worst. If in doubt, use Nemelex's granted powers to figure out what cards you've got, and then look them up on the knowledge bots.

Keep an eye out for Decks of Wonder. You'll want to use Stack the Deck on these to get the mighty Potion and Experience cards.

Oh, and remember to train your Evocations.

Bonus edit: The wiki is known on the ##crawl channel as "badwiki" since it's full of obsolete information and bad advice. I would take everything I read on there with a grain of salt and stick to the knowledge bots: they're actually updated.
Last edit: 2011-09-02 16:29:02
former #teamliquid denizen, in forum rehab
Old Post

  ]343[   United States. November 02 2011 16:13. Posts 8153Profile Blog # 
Bump! I've finally played a few ok games. I got my HOPr to level 20 (in 0.8) and got the serpentine rune before dying charging into a deep elf annihilator on Elf:5...

Now, I've switched to 0.9.1 (no victory dancing!), and currently have a level 19 SpEn of Kiku. Any tips on what I should do? I've cleared Lair, Orc, Vault:1-7 [lol took one look at Vault:8 and got the hell out], Hive, and some of Crypt. I have no rPois still for some reason, so I'm afraid to go into Snake; Shoals are just scary; and Slime is even scarier. I'm not too excited about Elf. I also tucked my tail and ran the hell out of Blade [lost my 4 large abominations ] and Tomb [smiting sphinxes? seriously?].

Mostly, my modus operandi has been sleep/confuse and stab, then spam zombies / (more recently, abominations... spriggans are so weak when carrying corpses ...), and Dispel Undead for those undead dudes. It's worked ok so far, except things that rPois / rCold are super annoying; anything else I should do? (See spellbook below)

+ Show Spoiler [Stats] +

+ Show Spoiler [Inventory] +

+ Show Spoiler [Skill & Spells] +
Last edit: 2011-11-02 16:15:06
move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3
Old Post

  ]343[   United States. November 04 2011 08:42. Posts 8153Profile Blog # 
LOL FML I decided to screw around and try to kill Roxanne while invisible.

Then I died to some 40-damage spell[s] -_____________________________________________________-
move along, move along, just to make it through || RIP KT_Violet <3
Old Post

 
 myopia   United States. November 04 2011 09:32. Posts 2260
Profile Blog # 
Man why is dcss so hard, I can't get the hang of this game. NetHack is a cakewalk in comparison. I've been concentrating on Draconian Fire Elementalists (because I love sticky flames). I keep getting exploded right around lair, usually to swarms of centaurs or elephants.
it's my first day
Old Post

 
 beef42   Denmark. November 04 2011 22:42. Posts 524
Profile # 
Maybe it's because you're using a melee range spell that only hits one target against the herds of the Lair. Sticky Flame works better against big bad "boss" monsters. "Easier" spellcasters are pretty much anything that starts with Mephitic Cloud in the book.
former #teamliquid denizen, in forum rehab
Old Post

 
 crate   United States. November 05 2011 04:00. Posts 1921
Profile Blog # 
You should still be able to 1v1 a centaur as a FE. They don't come in packs early on so just find a solution for packs before you go into Vaults.

Elephants shouldn't be a problem because they can't outrun you, so unless you turn a corner into a group of them you should always be able to retreat up to the previous level. They might block your progress but shouldn't kill you.

I haven't played FE much since Sticky Flame got cut to melee range though. I use Conjure Flame a ton when I play Conjuror and pick the fire book since it's really a stupid powerful spell, so you can try using that more often (unfortunately it doesn't work well with Sticky Flame though since you can't Sticky Flame an enemy on the other side of your cloud). Generally you can outrace stuff that stands in your fire cloud and anything that won't cross you can peg with ranged spells (and it's also a 3-MP escape spell just like Mephitic Cloud).
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
Old Post

 
 Cel.erity   United States. November 05 2011 10:14. Posts 3599
Profile Blog # 
How do you guys get used to the controls for this game? Do you use the numpad to move around? Because I don't have one, and the hjkl-yu-bn control scheme just makes no sense at all to me. I know rebinding the keys is possible, but it's a pain to do. Some of the other hotkeys are also very counterintuitive.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Old Post

 
 beef42   Denmark. November 05 2011 11:35. Posts 524
Profile # 
I use a numpad, and everytime I'm on a laptop I struggle with the hjkl scheme so bad I just give up.

It also feels better with one hand on numpad and the other on random keyboard keys imo.
former #teamliquid denizen, in forum rehab
Old Post

 
 Cel.erity   United States. November 05 2011 12:01. Posts 3599
Profile Blog # 
I remapped it a bit so it's JK for left-right and HL for up-down, that's a little more intuitive for me. I'm having fun so far!
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Old Post

 
 Stossel   United States. November 05 2011 12:15. Posts 47
Profile # 
Numpad usage is pretty much essential for me. I also macro - and * to explore and rest respectively so my hands hardly have to move around.

I've won 3 characters, MDFI, KoBE, and HaAs. I'd love to win a pure spellcaster but I usually get cocky or run into a unique I can't deal with, or have no attack spells aside from magic dart at dlvl 15+. So much not fun.
Old Post

 
 beef42   Denmark. November 05 2011 12:37. Posts 524
Profile # 

On November 05 2011 12:15 Stossel wrote:
Numpad usage is pretty much essential for me. I also macro - and * to explore and rest respectively so my hands hardly have to move around.

I've won 3 characters, MDFI, KoBE, and HaAs. I'd love to win a pure spellcaster but I usually get cocky or run into a unique I can't deal with, or have no attack spells aside from magic dart at dlvl 15+. So much not fun.


You should try SpEn of Kiku. Granted, not a pure spellcaster, but whatever you can't stab, you'll be able to magic to death and the other way around. Kiku isn't like Sif at all with his book gifts, he passes out a guranteed Necromancer book with every star you get with him. Lategame, can stab with a pain-branded weapon as well as cast "OP as shit" necromantic spells.

Also did I mention you're fast so you can run from everything. Also you start with invisibility in the book.

I'm just going to stop now.
former #teamliquid denizen, in forum rehab
Old Post

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