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I searched and can't find a topic. It is probably a strategy worthy topic because I'm wondering how a bronze or silver or gold can counter.
His videos are on his youtube channel and he is churning them out. I think up to 15 now. The longest is 15 minutes (longest resistance). Obviously his strategy is to spread creep to the opponent then defeat and nydus if necessary.
Queens are very slow off creep but can heal each other. They are just 2 units supply each and need no gas.
About the same worth (supply/cost) of marauders can't handle them if they do even a couple of transfusions.
If a gold player meets his smurf account on the way up, what is the simplest approach with the macro available? I'm thinking I'd just drop all his expansions one by one, as his queen army is so immobile even on creep.
http://www.youtube.com/user/remembertomorrow0
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The entire point of what he's doing is that even with a better unit composition (read - practically anything) you still need to macro at a comparable level in order to win.
Us less-than-diamond people typically can't.
Thors, planetary fortress, 5/3 ultras, ling runbys, dark templar and high templar are all fairly strong things to aim for... but as previously mentioned, if you can only make 5 ultras in the time it takes a master level player to make 45 queens, you're still not going to win.
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That is not the point of all of this. The point was that the macro and mechanics are more important in lower leagues then strategy and tactics and BO and all of that stuff. Thats why he took the most retarded unit composition and just make mass queens. Queens are slow, they need creep to move properly, if You are not harassing and all, not spending money and not macroing You will loose to that retarded unit compo. He can win even with queens only because hes mechanics and micro is so good. no strategy, no nothing, just mass queens. What will kill it? macro. just macro.
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Get better macro. Your macro is not restricted because you are in gold, you are in gold because you are not using the macro available. It doesn't matter if you have to bring some other things like your general decision making and micro down a little lower on the priority list if your macro improves. That's the point.
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Haha this is hilarious. There are so many ways to stop mass queens yet they don't even do anything.
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the best answer to mass queens is building stuff, because nearly everything wins against them(air probably not if u fight straight up)
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actually queens are stronger than people realize.
For instance six queens are worth six marauders in cost/supply (actually less than the marauders because the marauders need gas) and the six queens are even in a straight fight but if they use transfuse just a few times, all the queens survive and all the marauders die.
So a logical counter being a bunch of marauders can't take on the queen mob in a straight fight.
Marines also die because you can't make enough, 2 marines per 1 queen is not enough and that is the supply equation.
What is left is area of effect stuff: sieged tanks doing splash, HTs using feedback or storm, ghosts EMPing the queens etc.. quite a challenge to arrange for gold perhaps as it requires positional play.
I guess what I am saying is the "stupid unit composition" of mass queens isn't actually as much of a handicap as one would think. If you must pick to mass one thing to illustrate macro, it is probably better than mass hydras, definitely better than mass roaches, better than mass tanks, mass voids, mass zealots, etc etc. All other mass units have an explicit counter or can't shoot both air and ground.
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IIRC, he got stopped by Mass Thor (and repair, I think), so he added in Infestors specifically to Neural Parasite.
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I don't think some of you give queens enough credit. Not saying mass queen is a *killer* strategy, but they're surprisingly underused by a majority of zerg players. Note that while massing queens you can use most if not all of your larva for drones, spread creep like a crazy person and spend relatively little time harvesting gas. Transfusion is powerful, queens have high hp for their cost and they can attack both ground and air. With crazy creep tumors going down everywhere, queens can get around at a decent speed. Any good player could come up with a counter to mass queen, but don't underestimate its power in the hands of a good player.
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On March 07 2011 08:15 nyc863 wrote: actually queens are stronger than people realize.
For instance six queens are worth six marauders in cost/supply (actually less than the marauders because the marauders need gas) and the six queens are even in a straight fight but if they use transfuse just a few times, all the queens survive and all the marauders die.
So a logical counter being a bunch of marauders can't take on the queen mob in a straight fight.
Marines also die because you can't make enough, 2 marines per 1 queen is not enough and that is the supply equation.
What is left is area of effect stuff: sieged tanks doing splash, HTs using feedback or storm, ghosts EMPing the queens etc.. quite a challenge to arrange for gold perhaps as it requires positional play.
I guess what I am saying is the "stupid unit composition" of mass queens isn't actually as much of a handicap as one would think. It is probably better than mass hydras, definitely better than mass roaches, better than mass tanks, mass voids, etc etc. You're kidding right?
Mass queen dps is pretty darn low. Everything you mentioned would out-dps the queens. Yes, transfuse will keep the queens alive for a good amount of time, but with decent macro you will easily be able to outproduce and roll the mass queen army.
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Australia8532 Posts
^That's the problem - lower league players dont have that "decent" macro you are talking about..
Higher tech units - siege tanks maybe thors i guess.. should be able to help.
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Well give me an example of equal supply and cost beating mass queens.
Of course you can "outproduce and roll" you can do that with anything.
The point I am trying to make is Rootdestiny picking mass queens as an example of a screwed up unit composition isn't actually so screwed up. He is going to have very good macro, so show me the response that wins against a ball of queens without outproduction, should be easy if their dps is so lame.. right?
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Dude the mass queens is ridiculously easy to stop just have to macro, that is what hes trying to prove that the build isnt important till your outta plat what you need to work on is mechanics not builds to stop it
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On March 07 2011 08:22 bkrow wrote: ^That's the problem - lower league players dont have that "decent" macro you are talking about..
Higher tech units - siege tanks maybe thors i guess.. should be able to help.
That is exactly what he is trying to prove; you need to worry less about compositions and instead just get your macro down, since mass <insert unit here> would beat his strategy, if you were keeping up with his macro.
Really, if you manage to run into him, it seems like any form of early pressure or mass expansions would win, since he can't defend quickly, and can't attack quickly.
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Hes just catering to his popularity among the less hardcore viewers so he has to do entertaining stuff. The strategy itself is pretty useless.
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What Ryuu314 said.
The handicap of queens doesn't so much come from their prowess in battle, but the fact that they take 50 seconds to build and come out of a 300 mineral "barracks" that takes 100 seconds to build.
With one barracks with a reactor (110 seconds, 200 minerals, 50 gas) you can produce four marines (200 minerals) in the same amount of time it takes him to build one queen.
Equal food value is of less of a concern unless you've agreed to have a gentleman's duel at 200/200 supply, and politely wait for him after you've maxed out on marines twice as fast as he's maxed out on queens.
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mass hellion beats mass queen any day : ) trust me i am silver :D:D:D:D
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On March 07 2011 08:29 baoluvboa wrote: Hes just catering to his popularity among the less hardcore viewers so he has to do entertaining stuff. The strategy itself is pretty useless. This is the only post one needs to read as a response to this thread.
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On March 07 2011 08:30 nitesoul wrote: mass hellion beats mass queen any day : ) trust me i am silver :D:D:D:D
You should be banned for this post... Queens are not light units btw.....
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he's doing this to prove that all you need to win in the lower leagues is good mechanics, and not strategy. you see, you're thinking along the lines that he doesn't want you to think on what with that (relatively bad) drop idea. you don't need some intricate plan to beat his mass queen since it isn't strong at all.
the way to beat it, what he wants you to do, is just to focus on macroing and building a big army. if you have his queen numbers matched in roaches, you'll roll his mass queens over.
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