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| Griffith` March 07 2011 14:34. Posts 673 | Profile # |
[M] Liquid [M]
Many features of this map were as a result of a poll from the TL Community!
DISCLAIMER: THIS MAP IS NOT PUBLIC YET, IT IS UNDER GOING EXTENSIVE PRIVATE TESTING. PLEASE ADD ME @ GRIFFITH.583 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TEST IT, HIGH DIAMOND/MASTERS PLEASE.
Here are the main features of the map:
Map Preview
+ Show Spoiler +
+2v2/1v1 Map
+Long rush distances
+Easy to take natural
+Easy to take 3rd
+Double Bridge Choke outside of natural making it easier for Terran and Protoss to wall-off
+Open middle ground
And.. the obligatory:
+Griffith's Back-door™, explained in-depth)
+Griffith's Bridges™ (with awesome sauce scripting to make them show up on the minimaps too!)
Griffith's Back-door™
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/21br1.png) By default, the backdoor comprises of two adjacent 30-mineral mineral patches that allows "small" units to pass through, they are: Zerg: Drone/Zergling/Baneling/Hydralisk Terran: SCV/Marine/Marauder/Ghost/Reaper Protoss: Probe/Zealot/High Templar/Dark Templar/Sentry LoS Blocker prevents vision of the other side unless a small unit has squeezed through. By mining the 30 minerals, the backdoor can be "opened" to allow large units to pass through. Note that Terran has the option of throwing down a mule to open it quickly.
Griffith's Bridges™
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WyjVr.png) Each bridge requires a single 3x3 structure to wall-off. Meaning that walling off all 3 bridges (to seal natural and 3rd) requires 2 3x3 structures, 2 2x2 structures, or 3 3x3 structures. The double-width land bridges WILL spread creep, however, the TRIPLE and SINGLE width bridges will NOT spread creep. Zerg players can still use an overlord to generate creep, and then use a queen to lay a creep tumour! The bridges also show up on the minimap! (This was surprisingly difficult)
Original Poll:
+ Show Spoiler +Hi TLers, I've to set out to make the "perfect" melee map, based on poll results from the community. Please vote: Poll: 2 player or 4 Player?4 (462) 82% 2 (101) 18% 563 total votes Your vote: 2 player or 4 Player? (Vote): 2
(Vote): 4
Poll: What type of Natural Expansion?Outside of Base but closed and easy to defend (Lost Temple) (367) 77% Outside of Base but open and hard to defend (Xel'naga Caverns) (61) 13% In-Base (Crevasse/Jungle Basin) (50) 10% 478 total votes Your vote: What type of Natural Expansion? (Vote): In-Base (Crevasse/Jungle Basin)
(Vote): Outside of Base but closed and easy to defend (Lost Temple)
(Vote): Outside of Base but open and hard to defend (Xel'naga Caverns)
Poll: Back-door rocks?None in main or natural (364) 78% Back-door rocks in natural (93) 20% Back-door rocks in main (10) 2% 467 total votes Your vote: Back-door rocks? (Vote): None in main or natural
(Vote): Back-door rocks in main
(Vote): Back-door rocks in natural
Poll: Third Base (second expo) preferenceClose to natural, Minerals + 2Gas (357) 82% Far from natural, Minerals + 2Gas (45) 10% Close to natural, Minerals Only (31) 7% 433 total votes Your vote: Third Base (second expo) preference (Vote): Close to natural, Minerals + 2Gas
(Vote): Close to natural, Minerals Only
(Vote): Far from natural, Minerals + 2Gas
Poll: Xel'naga Towers CoverageControl of Xel'naga provides some movement information (Shattered Temple) (212) 44% Control of Xel'naga provides lots of movement information (Xel'naga Caverns) (195) 41% No Xel'naga Towers (58) 12% Control of Xel'naga provides very little movement information (14) 3% 479 total votes Your vote: Xel'naga Towers Coverage (Vote): Control of Xel'naga provides lots of movement information (Xel'naga Caverns)
(Vote): Control of Xel'naga provides some movement information (Shattered Temple)
(Vote): Control of Xel'naga provides very little movement information
(Vote): No Xel'naga Towers
Poll: How many max possible bases per player7 (231) 51% 6 (149) 33% 5 (64) 14% 4 (11) 2% 3 (2) 0% 457 total votes Your vote: How many max possible bases per player (Vote): 3
(Vote): 4
(Vote): 5
(Vote): 6
(Vote): 7
Poll: Destructible Rocks Blocking expansionsDestructible Rocks Blocking 4th Base (3rd Expo) (227) 46% No Destructible Rocks blocking mining bases (223) 46% Destructible Rocks Blocking 3rd Base (2nd Expo) (39) 8% 489 total votes Your vote: Destructible Rocks Blocking expansions (Vote): Destructible Rocks Blocking 3rd Base (2nd Expo)
(Vote): Destructible Rocks Blocking 4th Base (3rd Expo)
(Vote): No Destructible Rocks blocking mining bases
Poll: Open or Narrow CenterSemi-Open (Shattered Temple) (293) 65% Open (Python) (136) 30% Narrow (24) 5% 453 total votes Your vote: Open or Narrow Center (Vote): Open (Python)
(Vote): Semi-Open (Shattered Temple)
(Vote): Narrow
Poll: Number of Total Gold Bases2 (291) 62% 0 (145) 31% 4 (37) 8% 473 total votes Your vote: Number of Total Gold Bases (Vote): 4
(Vote): 2
(Vote): 0
Poll: Air Harassability of Main and ExpoSemi-open (Metalopolis/Lost Temple) (284) 69% Very little (ie. very little air space at all behind mineral lines, Match Point) (92) 22% Very open (Scrap Station, Crevasse) (36) 9% 412 total votes Your vote: Air Harassability of Main and Expo (Vote): Very open (Scrap Station, Crevasse)
(Vote): Semi-open (Metalopolis/Lost Temple)
(Vote): Very little (ie. very little air space at all behind mineral lines, Match Point)
Poll: Tall grass and such for possible proxies/hiding tech in Main?No smoke screens/grass/etc in main (227) 56% Half Open (Exposes open "air" side, old metalopolis) (135) 34% Closed (Grass completely surrounding 360 degrees, new metalopolis) (40) 10% 402 total votes Your vote: Tall grass and such for possible proxies/hiding tech in Main? (Vote): Half Open (Exposes open "air" side, old metalopolis)
(Vote): Closed (Grass completely surrounding 360 degrees, new metalopolis)
(Vote): No smoke screens/grass/etc in main
Cheers!
-GriffithLast edit: 2011-03-16 15:14:36 |
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| iGrok United States. March 07 2011 14:42. Posts 4298 | Profile Blog # | |
| | MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | Samurai Champloo | Maker's Mark | Gangnam Style! | Nunu |
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| Liquoid United Kingdom. March 07 2011 14:45. Posts 275 | Profile # |
This should be split into 5 separate polls (ideally), for each race option (Z, P, T, R) and a mixed one.
Just for curiosity's sake. |
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| Blazinghand United States. March 07 2011 14:45. Posts 12831 | Profile Blog # |
This look great! I'm sure that these questions in this forum, in particular, will help to generate an amazing map. Other things I'd consider putting to poll (but maybe not, as this might be more technical or race specific)
Main base Size?
Airspace?
Orientation / Rush Distance / No spawns on close positions? |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| Audle New Zealand. March 07 2011 14:48. Posts 22 | Profile # |
Should you add another poll in for things like-
Distance between mains or naturals?
Use of high ground and cliffs?
Tall grass and such for possible proxies/hiding tech?
Size of the main itself? (for effectiveness of drop/nydus plays)
Number of attack paths? Not sure if this is applicable with the option for narrow/open/semi open already there.
Don't know if that kind of stuff would help, but more information can't hurt. |
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| Griffith` March 07 2011 14:53. Posts 673 | Profile # |
| Thanks guys I've added in some of your poll suggestions |
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| BlackMesa Kenya. March 07 2011 14:58. Posts 337 | Profile Blog # |
| people basically described Fighting Spirit. |
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| GrapeD Canada. March 07 2011 15:11. Posts 677 | Profile Blog # |
| I think you should put in something like the back door expos on destination. |
| | Some people hurt people. I defenestrate those people. |
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| EMPaThy789 New Zealand. March 07 2011 15:32. Posts 846 | Profile # |
On March 07 2011 15:11 GrapeD wrote:
I think you should put in something like the back door expos on destination.
min blocks dont work anymore, its now imba to terran due to stupid mules |
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| exterior8D United States. March 07 2011 15:48. Posts 36 | Profile # |
| After taking the polls i felt like contributed something :O Last edit: 2011-03-07 15:48:40 |
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| lyAsakura United States. March 07 2011 16:00. Posts 1412 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2011 15:32 mR.bONG789 wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 15:11 GrapeD wrote:
I think you should put in something like the back door expos on destination.
min blocks dont work anymore, its now imba to terran due to stupid mules
mules wouldn't do anything different than a worker in destination min block. |
| | WeMade FOX would be a deadly SC2 team. |
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| Blazinghand United States. March 07 2011 16:17. Posts 12831 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2011 15:48 exterior8D wrote:
After taking the polls i felt like contributed something :O
Agreed. I feel like I'm making a contribution to something great. |
| | When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back. |
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| FinestHour United States. March 07 2011 16:20. Posts 7050 | Profile # |
| Griffith making a map? Definitely gonna be keeping in tune with this thread! |
| | BUNCH OF KIDS THAT DONT BUILD WIDOW MINES CANT PLAY PHANTOM LANCER THINK ZED IS UNDERPOWERED rip puck my waifu |
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| Mastermind Canada. March 07 2011 16:23. Posts 7092 | Profile Blog # |
| The only expos rocks should ever block are gold expos. |
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| Sadistx Zimbabwe. March 07 2011 16:39. Posts 5474 | Profile Blog # |
When you get a map designed by majority/voting committee, you end up with some very bland generic map that has no defining features and doesn't keep the viewer/observer engaged.
Look at some GSL/ICCUP maps like Testbug, the new Crevasse 1.1, Taldarim altar. They don't conform to the votes in the OP, but are nonetheless good macro based maps that produced some very good games so far if you follow the scene.
First of all, for example, your vote options are extremely limited.
Where is the 3 - player map for example?
Where is the option for the number of xel-naga towers?
How about things like reverse high ground and number of ramps?
My point is - when you do make the map, don't just do what the vote says, keep it as a rough guideline, but don't rely on it, you will never be able to please everyone.
Good luck in mapmaking!
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| SoulSever Canada. March 07 2011 16:45. Posts 425 | Profile # |
| Yep, Fighting Spirit was the shit. Also, I bet tileset will probly make more of a difference than you would expect in popularity |
| | Violet <3 ~~~Better places than here exist |
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| LaughingTulkas United States. March 07 2011 17:21. Posts 760 | Profile # |
Kinda OT, but this reminds me of the book "Painting by Numbers: Komar and Melamid's Scientific Guide to Art" where these two guys take a bunch of surveys of different countries views on art, and the create the "ideal" painting for each country based on people's responses.
We could do the same with SC maps! Have an ideal Euro/US/Korean map or an idea Terran/Zerg/Toss map.  |
| | "I love noobies, they're so happy." -Chill |
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| Raneth England. March 07 2011 17:36. Posts 274 | Profile # |
Looking at the results so far, zerg win% on this map? %100 lol
huge map with easily defensible natural and quick third, and only semi open air, this would be better if it was vulnerable from air so the other races could put -some- sort of early pressure on a zerg, (remember that protoss/terran actually need to be able to make a zerg panic so they dont just get out macro'd and die)
I agree with the earlier sentiment that there should be 4 more of these poll's, this one as mixed and an additional poll for each race (counting random as a race)
Im also not sure why everyone is hating on the smoke (long grass) sure, we hate cheese, but its not like its hard to throw up a pylon/depo/ovie spotter in there early game, it just adds another dimension to the early game, punishes lasy people, and lures cheesy people to perform extreemly predictable and scoutable proxies.
I also agree totally with Sadist's point.
Other than that, at the very least this will be a nice chance in venue to play on such a large macro map, so thanks a lot for making the effort to start this thread and develop a map for us  all the best of luck! I hope its a sucess |
| | tom: "dont you mean TWO g keys???" kwark: "nah, i'll probably just press it twice" |
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| Meta United States. March 07 2011 17:52. Posts 5804 | Profile Blog # |
On March 07 2011 16:39 Sadistx wrote:
When you get a map designed by majority/voting committee, you end up with some very bland generic map that has no defining features and doesn't keep the viewer/observer engaged.
Look at some GSL/ICCUP maps like Testbug, the new Crevasse 1.1, Taldarim altar. They don't conform to the votes in the OP, but are nonetheless good macro based maps that produced some very good games so far if you follow the scene.
First of all, for example, your vote options are extremely limited.
Where is the 3 - player map for example?
Where is the option for the number of xel-naga towers?
How about things like reverse high ground and number of ramps?
My point is - when you do make the map, don't just do what the vote says, keep it as a rough guideline, but don't rely on it, you will never be able to please everyone.
Good luck in mapmaking!
Add in all these options. Especially 3 player maps, which the scene currently needs more of on account of them being awesome.
This is a pretty cool initiative but I think it would be more interesting with a fuller option list. |
| | Pure, immaculate, clean, omnicidal god machine |
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| Crazycraft March 07 2011 18:49. Posts 29 | Profile # |
| Whatever it turns out to be, I suggest resisting the urge to call it Griffith's Perfect Map™ |
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