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So, I've been trying to get to blink in every single one of my PvP games, just so I can work on it and improve my game. It's also very fun.
What I'm wondering, is if there is someway that you can go straight to blink without doing for example, the 3 stalker rush or adelscott to start. Against someone who isn't 4 gating it is no problem. But when it seems as though they are 4 gating, what's the best way to get to blink?
What I've been doing, is adelscott in close positions, and the 3 stalker thing for most other positions, and occasionally trying a 2 gas 3 gate with a couple sentries while I tech to blink.
The reason I ask, is because I was watching Grubby's stream yesterday and saw him pimpin it with blink. The thing is though, is he went 1 gate, twilight and added on 2 more gates. I think most of the games, his opponent wasn't 4 gating, but I honestly don't remember. Is it possible to do 1 gate twilight vs a 4gate? And also, what is the best way to get to blink vs 4 gate.
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I think MC vs Hongun is pretty good evidence that you cant safely 1 gate twilight vs a 4gate.
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You can't go 1 Gate Twilight against a 4-Gate. Normal blink builds doesn't work, however you can go defensive 4-gate into blink, try working out the timing to drop the Twilight and how many probes to get and Im sure you can do it.
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United States8476 Posts
You basically have to go 4 gate and after you defend the 4 gate, put up a 2nd gas and get a twilight for blink. There are numerous replays on sc2reps.net that showcase this tactic. Basically, worry about defending 4 gate first and then go for blink.
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I would imagine the above two posters have *vastly* more game experience than I so I can't really comment either way, but out of curiosity I fired up SCBuildOrder and played around with fast blink for a few minutes. With constant probes, you can get 3 warp gates and and 6 blink stalkers around 6:05, or 1 zealot, 1 sentry, and 5 blink stalkers around 6:15. Tried a few more variations, but I couldn't find anything that sounded remotely safe against the 5:45 1 gas 4 gate...
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LOL yeah, MC vs Hongun was such a disappointment. I couldn't believe Hongun tried to do that bullshit. Like come on. RO8 in gsl and u do that. I mean I kind of figured as much with what you guys were saying. I was just makin sure I wasn't missin something. I do think however that you could do 3 gate and twilight after you get a couple sentries.
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Canada13372 Posts
If you got blink as a follow up to gain map control AFTER stopping a 4 gate I feel you will be in good shape. However, I dont feel you can safely get blink stalkers against a 4 gate once you get into diamond or higher, the timings just fall in the favour of the 4gater.
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If you get enough sentries, have perfect forcefields and deny vision of reinforcing zealot warp-in's up the ramp, it might be doable. If you make a single micro mistake though, you'll get steamrolled.
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Canada13372 Posts
On March 13 2011 03:59 Tyrant0 wrote: If you get enough sentries, have perfect forcefields and deny vision of reinforcing zealot warp-in's up the ramp, it might be doable. If you make a single micro mistake though, you'll get steamrolled.
No you cant unfortunately. The 1 gate blink means you spend too much gas to get sentries and you also have too few gateways to support and push back an attack. the tech cost is too huge and 4 gate will roll you over.
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Generally, I do the 3 gate... Second gas at 19, 3 chronoes on warpgate research. And I have 5 stalkers out when he attacks me with the 1 zealot 7 stalkers. Now while this seems bad, I always seem to be able to hold when I use the ramp to my advantage. The opponent is hesitant to engage and if he gives me time to get 3 more stalkers out for a total of 8, and once I have that, I feel like the 4 gate has failed, because sure, when I have 8 stalkers and he has 8 stalkers and 3 zealots the ramp really really helps me.
So pretty much, it's all about being able to hold with 5 stalkers (make two, warp three) when he has 7 stalkers + 1 zealot or delay until you have 8. After you have 8 I like to get a sentry and start my blink research. Now the timing works in such a way that if the opponent knows how to get up a ramp properly he will kill you, but the timing from his is very narrow and I do manage to win 3/5ths of my games againsts 4 gate with it.
Thing I really like about it though is it's very powerful vs any stargate build obviously, so while not super common it's good. Againsts robo builds, I find that if your opponent only makes one immortal, you have the advantage, just target fire. If you realise you can't get up, don't force it... Get your expansion up asap, and research charge and do the adelscott army composition of chargelot blink stalker. Keep active with blink stalkers like preventing scouting, drawing a couple zealots in etc.
A really odd build to deal with though, is the DT... Only thing I can really suggest, is after a while you know what the build looks like. Blink should be done when you have 11 stalkers, use those to attack asap. If you're like, where is his army right away, don't spend another mineral. Make a robo at your proxy pylon and save as many minerals for a you can for pylons to place around the map as well as posibly a nexus.
Inside his base keep hitting and running the entire time. Go for his warpgate pylons and probes right away... Once you have an observer out, it's a won game for you. Hold a ramp. Place or nexus on the other side of the ramp, keep 5~ stalkers with an observer there. And with the rest go around to look for any nexus he made or start killing off his remaining buildings.
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On March 13 2011 04:04 Skillz_Man wrote: Generally, I do the 3 gate... Second gas at 19, 3 chronoes on warpgate research. And I have 5 stalkers out when he attacks me with the 1 zealot 7 stalkers. Now while this seems bad, I always seem to be able to hold when I use the ramp to my advantage. The opponent is hesitant to engage and if he gives me time to get 3 more stalkers out for a total of 8, and once I have that, I feel like the 4 gate has failed, because sure, when I have 8 stalkers and he has 8 stalkers and 3 zealots the ramp really really helps me.
So pretty much, it's all about being able to hold with 5 stalkers (make two, warp three) when he has 7 stalkers + 1 zealot or delay until you have 8. After you have 8 I like to get a sentry and start my blink research. Now the timing works in such a way that if the opponent knows how to get up a ramp properly he will kill you, but the timing from his is very narrow and I do manage to win 3/5ths of my games againsts 4 gate with it.
Thing I really like about it though is it's very powerful vs any stargate build obviously, so while not super common it's good. Againsts robo builds, I find that if your opponent only makes one immortal, you have the advantage, just target fire. If you realise you can't get up, don't force it... Get your expansion up asap, and research charge and do the adelscott army composition of chargelot blink stalker. Keep active with blink stalkers like preventing scouting, drawing a couple zealots in etc.
A really odd build to deal with though, is the DT... Only thing I can really suggest, is after a while you know what the build looks like. Blink should be done when you have 11 stalkers, use those to attack asap. If you're like, where is his army right away, don't spend another mineral. Make a robo at your proxy pylon and save as many minerals for a you can for pylons to place around the map as well as posibly a nexus.
Inside his base keep hitting and running the entire time. Go for his warpgate pylons and probes right away... Once you have an observer out, it's a won game for you. Hold a ramp. Place or nexus on the other side of the ramp, keep 5~ stalkers with an observer there. And with the rest go around to look for any nexus he made or start killing off his remaining buildings.
Dude, so yeah after I make it past the 4 gate phase and get blink, this is pretty much exactly what I do. It works fucking great. If you can't bust their ramp with the blink stalkers. I just chill outside his base while I put my expo up. If i suspect dt's I put a forge up but that's beside the point. From there, I actually pull probes from gas, when I have 200 and research charge. From there on, I put up 2 more gates and only make zealots. When he tries to leave his base, I run in and snipe his robo. By the time he gets to my base with his 2/3 colossus, I have like 20-30 zealots and like 8-10 stalkers. I've been thinkin about uploadin replays of this style. Maybe I will. I'm really startin to perfect the build.
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as a 2800 master toss, i win 90% of my pvps using the adelscott build with a transition into blink stalker.. i drop my twilight after my nexus and it seems to work out fine for me
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On March 13 2011 02:51 Jayrod wrote: I think MC vs Hongun is pretty good evidence that you cant safely 1 gate twilight vs a 4gate.
This. /thread
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You can go 3 gate then make twilight council and be safe against a 4 gate. You can't rely on blink to hold the 4 gate, but you can hold the 4 gate with 3 gate mostly stalker+warping in sentries as needed, and then you can have blink long before they have blink or colossi. If they are still sitting at the bottom of your ramp when blink finishes it should be gg right there.
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Honestly I think just going defensive 4 gate and holding off the 4 gate seems easier then trying to 3 gate and holding it off.
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whenever i sniff out a 4 gate build, i immediately throw down a forge and after two cannons at the top of my ramp no matter what build i'm doing. The tricky part of it is that with a 3gate blink build is that you have or can be agressive, but its hard to defend fourgate due to the insane gas usage you use from trying to get blink up, but its still doable. A forge + 2 cannons is my best friend in the early game =D
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On March 13 2011 11:56 LanTAs wrote: whenever i sniff out a 4 gate build, i immediately throw down a forge and after two cannons at the top of my ramp no matter what build i'm doing. The tricky part of it is that with a 3gate blink build is that you have or can be agressive, but its hard to defend fourgate due to the insane gas usage you use from trying to get blink up, but its still doable. A forge + 2 cannons is my best friend in the early game =D
unless you're trying dark templar expand why on earth would you throw up 2 cannons over defensive 4gate? what if they go 1gas 4gate warp prism? I do that whenever i scout early cannons.
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