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| Blight_Demon United States. March 18 2011 01:23. Posts 13 | Profile # |
So, you've been able to beat the insane computers, but you get frustrated when a Zerg spawns against you because you're cannon rushing, or you hate playing long games because reapers are pretty slow to reach. Well, this guide is for you!
Below, I will detail my strategies for defeating any insane AI computer in an efficient 1v1 scenario. Note that these also work perfectly well for co-op scenarios with only a slight adjustment sometimes.
I've beaten insane AI over 200 times with these builds, so I know that they work. The ONLY exception is that sometimes a Zerg opponent will do a 6-pool style attack. I've seen that happen maybe 3 times in over 200 games.
General idea + Show Spoiler +As many know (or may not know), the best way to beat an insane AI is to take advantage of its overaggressive nature. So, all of these builds center around aggravating the computer which prevents mining while you prep and send in a quick rush force. It is very important that you keep your harassment worker alive as long as possible. There are 3 main phases to the strategy:
1) worker prep - how many workers to make 2) aggro - how to prevent the enemy from mining while building attack units. 3) establishment - establishing your presence in his base, defeating the computer
Think like the AI + Show Spoiler +The AI works as follows. If a player structure is being built in the AI main, the AI will send workers to attack the building, and anything else within a certain range. This means that they will attack your structure, worker, and anything else that they see. Once the threat building is gone, the workers return to mine. So, if the AI workers ever give you too much trouble, just cancel the aggro building and they'll back off. This is very important for Terran players because your SCV is exposed while building. It's also important in co-op scenarios, because sometimes the enemy will attack your ally and kill him before you even notice as a result of your aggro, so be mindful. If your buddy is getting attacked, cancel to save him!
Also, the AI will make a judgment on whether it can win a fight or not. If it thinks it can, the workers attack you. If it knows it cannot win, the workers leave you alone and refuse to mine while the main structure is under attack.
How to win + Show Spoiler +In all cases, you want to quickly fight your way to his main command structure (hatchery/CC/Nexus). Make sure he has no attacking units. If his workers flee when you hit the main structure, you've won. If the workers attack you, the AI still thinks it can win, so mop up a few more workers and teach him otherwise! Then go back to killing the CC. With the workers not mining, the AI will quickly give you the gg.
Here are the strategies arranged in increasing order of difficulty. You always start by sending all workers to mine, and begin construction on a worker.
Protoss + Show Spoiler +Worker Prep
1) Send worker #7 towards enemy base 2) Send workers #8 and #9 to mine. 3) Halt worker production. Note: Sometimes you can squeeze out a 10th, but only if the map is very large. You know you can do it if you can build #10 and still be able to build 2 pylons by the time #7 gets to the enemy base.
Aggro
1) As worker 7 arrives at the enemy base, build 1 pylon on low ground, move up onto enemy base and make a second pylon (aggro pylon). 2) Go back down to the first pylon. The enemy should start attacking the aggro pylon. They probably won't kill it. Either way, be sure to cancel it right before it finishes/dies. 3) After you cancel the 1st aggro pylon, you should have approx 250 minerals. Wait until 300 and build 2 gateways outside his base. 4) Continue making/canceling aggro pylons while the gateways finish. 5) As soon as the gateways are done, chronoboost 2 zealots and send them to defend the aggro pylon.
Establishment
1) Continue making/chronoboosting zealots. 2) Allow the aggro pylon to finish when you know that your first 2 zealots will be able to defend it. This frees up extra supply so you can make zealots #5+. 3) send in zealots and hack away at workers. The enemy will probably have 1-2 attacking units by this time, which should be very easy work for the zealots. 4) March into his main base and hit his main structure to win.
Zerg + Show Spoiler +Worker Prep
1) Send the first worker to return home with minerals over to the enemy base for aggro. 2) Send workers 7 and 8 to mine, halt production
Aggro
1) about the time your worker gets to his base, you should be able to throw down the spawning pool, do so. 2) As soon as you can, steal the gas. 3) Continue to gas steal/cancel until your attack force eventually arrives. 4) Right about the time of the first extractor cancel, you should also be able to make an OL, do so. 5) As soon as your pool finishes, make 6 zerglings and have them rallied to the enemy.
Establishment
1) Continue making that extractor until your zerglings arrive. 2) Continue making zerglings as larva become available. 3) When the first batch of zerglings arrive, have your extractor drone join the fight, but watch his health. It's important to keep him alive, so if he gets to about half life, be sure to put him make on extractor duty. Also, if you're fighting a Zerg, you could consider turning him into a spine crawler. 4) By the second or third wave of zerglings, the AI should be beaten back.
Note: Protoss is by far the most difficult for Zerg to take out, just be aware that it takes 4 zerglings to win a fight vs a zealot, and you barely win.
Terran + Show Spoiler +By far the most difficult race to work with, but still a doable strategy for low-league players.
Worker Prep 1) Send SCV 7 and 8 to enemy base. Halt production 2) Have SCV 7 build a supply depot whenever you can afford it. It'll be somewhere near the middle of the map 3) SCV 8 will arrive to the enemy ramp first, so have him begin the barracks.
Aggro
1) Send 7 into the enemy base and begin a supply depot, quickly pull him off and aggro enemy workers and cancel the SD when things get dicy. Note: you can simply cancel the SD whenever you first see enemy workers if microing isn't your thing. 2) Continue aggroing. 3) With the barracks finished, make a marine, and have 8 build a bunker at the edge wall of the enemy base. 4) Have the lone marine join the aggro fun, but keep him alive! 5) Keep aggroing until the bunker finishes (around the time your second marine arrives). 6) Send your guys into the bunker, put 8 on autorepair.
Establishment
1) Continue making marines. 2) Change your aggro supply depot into an aggro bunker, as close to your 1st bunker as you can, but on the high ground. 3) The 1st bunker should be able to shoot enemy workers that come to kill your second bunker, which should then make the workers leave the 2nd bunker alone and attack the 1st. Note: This is the most difficult part and is difficult to say what EXACTLY to do. Just try to use common sense to aggro the enemy. 4) Sometimes the workers won't come attack bunker #2, so you hafta unload from #1 and march up the ramp. The workers attack, you run back down and into #1. 5) When bunker 2 finishes, unload from 1, load into 2, salvage 1. 6) Use bunker 2 as a safe spot. Use marines to push into enemy main and return to bunker if there are any problems, then push out again, etc. 7) You can make more bunkers if you want, but it's probably better to build a second barracks; most of the enemy workers should die while establishing bunker 2. You can even build rax2 on the the high ground. 8) Continue making marines and pushing in until you win.
Replays + Show Spoiler +Protoss vs AIZerg vs AITerran vs AI Note: The AI gg'd much earlier than usual in the Terran game, I ignored it and fought on to show how things should go, it played out a little oddly, usually that 2nd bunker goes up much easier. So I suppose it shows even a gone-wrong scenario can work!
Notes for Co-op + Show Spoiler +Sometimes the enemy base is shared, which means you'll end up aggroing both enemies at once. The rule of thumb for shared bases is this: bases are shared if there is only 1 choke into the enemy base. In this case there are a few things to watch out for.
1) Only 1 of you needs to aggro, the other can focus on rushing faster. It's best for the Zerg to aggro due to low extractor cost. 2) If you're aggroing, be aware that you will be attacked by twice the workers, so you have to pay twice as much attention to not let your building die twice as fast! (or 3x if you're playing 3s) 3) Watch your buddies! Sometimes the aggro'd enemy will go and directly attack your ally who's building outside the enemy base. Canceling your aggro structure will call the enemy off him. In this case, it's usually easier to watch your ally and cancel when the enemy gets close to him, rather than watching the health of your building.
Also, Tempest is the worst map possible, the enemy can spawn in 3 locations, it's usually best to restart if you get that map. However, if you're trying for the streak achievement, it's still winnable, just have a T or P player send 2 scouts instead of one, and have each scout go to a different base (the 2 from the T or P, then the 1 from the ally). It might be most helpful to have the T just split his 2 initial workers.
Getting the AI to gg: Meet these conditions and the AI will gg 1) Neither AI has an attacking unit. 2) Both AI have structures that are under attack. 3) Both AI have given up mining 4) Only 1 human player remaining. In other words, the AI will give up just like in 1v1, but only 1 human can be present for the gg to be given. Also, don't accept a gg before 5 minutes, it may not register the win! This does not seem to be the case in 1v1, so feel free to gg whenever |
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| PassiveAce United States. March 18 2011 01:27. Posts 4327 | Profile Blog # |
Really cool write up, but I think this belongs in the single player Forum. Also, 200 wins against the A.I. is kind of hilarious. |
| | "I'm gonna wring your pants" || Official FireboltGamer (1 of around 9) |
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| Blight_Demon United States. March 18 2011 01:35. Posts 13 | Profile # |
Thanks! I'm a pretty new user here, so would there be a way for me to move the thread to where it should be? Or does a mod need to do that?
Also, yeah, it's a lot of games. But it does count my 100 custom vs insane and my 100+ vs insane in coop, so I don't sit there playing insanes needlessly too too much  |
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| PassiveAce United States. March 18 2011 01:41. Posts 4327 | Profile Blog # |
I am also pretty new here but i think that a mod has to either move this, or close it and let you remake it in the correct forum.
But again, im also pretty new so i dont know what standard procedure for this kind of thing is. If I were you i would Edit in a apology to the mods and ask them to close this, and then remake the thread in the single-player forum. Maybe you could PM Chill or another mod and ask them what you should do. |
| | "I'm gonna wring your pants" || Official FireboltGamer (1 of around 9) |
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| hassook United Arab Emirates. March 23 2011 18:34. Posts 16 | Profile # |
| Thats a nice guide, please explain number 1 in Zerg build order. |
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| Saracen United States. March 23 2011 18:36. Posts 5127 | Profile Blog # |
| Moved to SC2 Single Player. |
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| MrArarat Argentina. March 23 2011 21:49. Posts 132 | Profile # |
| Nice guide... will look into it. |
| | Resting on the mountain side... |
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| Blight_Demon United States. March 25 2011 00:37. Posts 13 | Profile # |
On March 23 2011 18:34 hassook wrote: Thats a nice guide, please explain number 1 in Zerg build order.
I assume you're talking about the drone?
So, you begin by sending all 6 workers to mine, then you start building the seventh. Soon after, your workers will return with their first batch of minerals. Take one of those guys, and send him to the enemy base.
Does that help to clarify? |
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| Albrithe Canada. March 25 2011 02:18. Posts 187 | Profile # |
| Does anyone know if this AI abuse can help you beat the outmatched vs 2 insane AI for custom games achievements? I have it on one account but I can't seem to get it on my new account ): |
| | "You don't need a condom... to get up on 'dem..." -Zach Weiner |
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| Blight_Demon United States. March 25 2011 14:42. Posts 13 | Profile # |
On March 25 2011 02:18 Albrithe wrote: Does anyone know if this AI abuse can help you beat the outmatched vs 2 insane AI for custom games achievements? I have it on one account but I can't seem to get it on my new account ):
I'm pretty sure that for my outmached achievements, I did an cannon rush abuse type thing.
As for applying these strategies: If you fight insanes on a shared base map, you can aggro them both at the same time, so you'd be preventing both of them from mining; however, I imagine that the combined strength of their workers may be a bit too much for you to handle alone. I'd definitely try doing it as protoss since they're the easiest to do. I'd probably either select Zerg or Terran for the AI race.
No promises that this'll work for outmached achievements, sorry. |
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| jazzbassmatt United States. March 27 2011 02:53. Posts 552 | Profile # |
| why would you play over 200 games cheesing an AI computer...totally worthless imo Last edit: 2011-03-27 02:53:59 |
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| FiWiFaKi Canada. March 27 2011 04:06. Posts 2437 | Profile Blog # |
| Pretty much identical thing I wrote in the Co-op Partner Finding Thread. Thanks anyhow I guess. |
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| Blight_Demon United States. March 27 2011 04:26. Posts 13 | Profile # |
On March 27 2011 02:53 jazzbassmatt wrote: why would you play over 200 games cheesing an AI computer...totally worthless imo
Achievement hunting. And to the poster who wrote similarly in another thread, sorry didn't mean to steal your thunder. I had never been able to find a satisfactory guide to killing AI on these boards, but then I was directly searching for them, not checking around other threads. |
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| muta_analysis United States. March 27 2011 08:00. Posts 3 | Profile # |
| I'm piling up the achievements and i feel this is very helpful. thanks for laying it out nicely like this |
| | I was hard-countered by my life's all-in builds. |
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| Tekie March 28 2011 02:25. Posts 16 | Profile # |
Computer will give up, when all workers are running around. But therefore only one player is allowed ingame. Thus the other players need to leave for this to work out. That works perfectly in 2vs2-Coop. edit: sry, i see you wrote something similiar in your guide. But it never happened to me, that a win before 5 min didnt count for achievment.
Computer is not necessary sending the worker to the building you set up above the ramp. you can build sth above the ramp in a way, that the worker wont attack your highground building, but run outside of the choke.
Zerg: when you play Zerg and gassteal -> make use of it, when you attack with your zergling! 6 worker will attack the extractor and you can kill off the rest. Just be carefull, that you DONT move your zergling too near to your extractor. Otherwise the workers attacking it, will attack your zerglings instead. If you just fight 1vs1 you should use 6 pool instead of 7 pool or other slower rushes. Just in Coop I prefer 7-pool to 6-pool.
Terran: when you play terran, it is very easy to win against Zerg and Terran Computer with marines only. Bunker is just a very safe way, but you dont need one for this. When your first marine pops out, your 3. depot harras should have pulled the workers to the choke. Now do a constantly fast shoot-stop-cycle with this marine and add the marines you build in the meantime. The workers will try to attack your marine(s), while the marine(s) shoot them, but they will run back, when the marine stop shooting. This way you can kill off nearly all workers with just 1-3 marines, before even entering their base.
There is also a guide for different fast coop wins in this nice Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178496
VIDEOS:
cannon rush (3 min): + Show Spoiler +
2 Gate proxy (4 min, messed up gateway timing a bit): + Show Spoiler +
6 pool (3-4 min): + Show Spoiler +Last edit: 2011-03-28 20:01:59 |
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| JadisGod March 29 2011 12:24. Posts 4 | Profile # |
If you're just now starting to go for these achievements remember that the quickest way would be to just play random vs insane every game. Doing it this way will reward you with the AI Romp/Blitz achievements for every difficulty and will put you well on your way to finishing off the race-specific AI Romps for Random/Terran/Zerg/Protoss as well. I've been messing around to try and find the fastest way for each race that still works in the 1.3 patch and it even seems like it's faster to do insane than the lower difficulties due to the AI's auto targeting structures built near their base.
Here's some simple videos I recorded for each race in case you haven't yet figured out exactly how these are done. (Each method takes around 2-3 minutes)
Terran + Show Spoiler +
Zerg + Show Spoiler +
Protoss + Show Spoiler +Last edit: 2011-03-30 05:27:38 |
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| Deja Thoris South Africa. March 29 2011 14:44. Posts 646 | Profile Blog # |
On March 27 2011 02:53 jazzbassmatt wrote: why would you play over 200 games cheesing an AI computer...totally worthless imo
It's a game, the point of which is to have fun. If he finds it fun its not worthless. Some people make posts just to criticise others playstyles, is that a worthwhile way to spend time?
On topic, I got the outmatched achievements by finding an island map with double expos and massing up in relative safety |
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| Tekie March 31 2011 00:21. Posts 16 | Profile # |
@JadisGod: I like how you carried it out with zerg and terran ^^. I think i will try out the terran version in Coop. I am used to build 2 rax. |
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| ZedraC South Africa. March 31 2011 22:11. Posts 51 | Profile # |
Oooo, Thanks for this. I tried toss and Zerg strats yesterday and got it right. Tonight I am going to try the terran one. Nice thread Blight_Demon; At least now if and when I have a few minutes to mess arround I can get another insane victory in to the bucket and at least it's a bit more interesting than cannon rushing hundreds of games.
Still, getting this achievement is soooooo tedious.
Wish I was not such a Medal %^&#*. |
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| Uberfen November 07 2011 01:50. Posts 6 | Profile # |
| while you place extractor it doesn't attract workers anymore. i dont know if that's a new patch thing or bugged for me. |
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