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| wo1fwood United States. March 18 2011 21:53. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iy3sI.png) Note: in preparation for the incoming HotS beta, this thread has been renamed from Basic to WoL. Once HotS is released, this thread will no longer be updated (archival purposes).
Downloadable PDF
The pdf will likely lag behind its web counterpart, make sure you check to see if it's up to date
i. Intro
The purpose of this thread is to collect common timings for many predominantly used openings in SC2. In setting a good foundation for strategy, it is essential to know when certain things can happen in a match, and when they cannot. In trying to set this foundation for myself I decided to collect the timings I thought were most important to be aware of in order to be a competent player.
Contribution
I will try to make updates as changes happen, however I would appreciate any help in verifying the best possible timings for these openings, updating existing ones for patch changes, or perhaps adding newer openings as they become more popular/standard as some will inevitably become. Also, if you know of general timings that you feel should be here that I've missed, please let me know.
Submitting Replays
+ Show Spoiler [use the following guidelines when subm…] +• Please submit replays beginning with patch 1.4
• Open a custom game on a ladder map, with the appropriate race matchup, and exit the game once or shortly after the objectives have been completed. If a matchup is _vX, choose an appropriate race.
• Send out a worker to 'scout' the opponent at the appropriate time so they are not participating in mining or construction for that time period.
• Unless an opening purposely cuts or delays workers, it will be assumed that constant worker production is being adhered to as best as possible. This will also be a factor in determining the best executions.
-or-
• If you want to submit a pro rep that represents these builds, that works as well.
ii. Updates
+ Show Spoiler +Update 13 [4.21.12] - Added 3 Colossus Push vs. T
Update 12 [3.18.12] - Updated Zerg Averages for 1.4.3, and added the marauder hellion push, and MMA pvt banshee build.
Update 11 [1.4.12] - Updated Protoss FFE and Nexus First timings.
Update 10 [9.20.11] - Terran section now conforms with patch 1.4
Update 9 [9.2.11] - Added more timings in each general section and 4kmonk's anti 4 gate reference.
Update 8 [8.8.11] - Removed pre 1.3 zerg averages and added the more updated averages for post 1.3 and 1.3.3 patches.
Update 7 [7.28.11] - Removed outdated protoss builds, and updated timings to patch 1.3.3. Also added a few builds.
Update 6 [5.13.11] - Added average pro Lair, Infestation Pit, and Hive timings.
Update 5 [4.12.11] - Added a small but useful References Section.
Update 4 [4.9.11] - Added a banner. Yay to using my art skills!
Update 3 [4.3.11] - Timings revised and replays added to Zerg, Terran and Protoss sections. All timings now conform with patch 1.3.
Update 2 [3.23.11] - Added replay guidelines and Acknowledgments section.
Update 1 [3.18.11] - Added links to appropriate Liquipedia pages.
3.18.11 - Finished, Finally! All openings conform with Patch 1.2.2
Table of Contents
i. Intro
ii. Updates
1.0 Terran
1.1 General
1.2 Openings
2.0 Protoss
2.1 General
2.2 Openings
3.0 Zerg
3.1 General
3.2 Average Timings
3.3 Openings
4.0 Acknowledgements
5.0 References
Notes on Format
For early Nexus and CC timings (timngs before ~6:30 min) it is assumed that these structures are in production and not complete. With regards to Zerg, I generally did not follow any particular build but rather focused on their overarching mechanics, following the various tech directions based on the initial opening styles chosen. Some of the openings are underlined? These link to the appropriate Liquipedia or TeamLiquid.net pages for the specificities of the build.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mjv0o.png)
+ Show Spoiler +1.1 Terran General • 50 energy accumulates at OC in ~1:30. • It takes 2:15 from putting down a CC to the completion of an OC. • If you start an OC when another has ~35 energy, they will both have 50 energy when that OC finishes. • A 12 rax completes @2:43. • It is ~2:35 from the time a factory begins to having double medivac/viking production, with the 1st round in play. • It takes ~2:05 from the time a ghost academy goes down, to having ghosts with one emp on the field. • It takes ~2:05 from beginning an armory to the 1st thor completing. • If you begin an armory when +1 is ~%60 (95/160) complete, you will be able to begin +2 when the armory finishes. Begin this at ~%20 (35/160) if a factory is also needed. 1.2 Terran OpeningsBunker Rush » 12 rax • bunker down ~@2:55, marine + bunker ~@3:35 » 11/11 rax • bunker down ~@3:12, 3 marines + bunker @~@3:52 » 12/14 rax • bunker down ~@3:26, 4 marines + bunker @~@4:14 1 Rax FE » vs Z • 1 marine + %55 reaper + CC ~@3:58 » vs P no gas • 2 marines + CC ~@3:47 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/dl.gif) no gas, into MMA cloaked banshee • CC ~@3:25, facto ~@5:50, port ~@6:43, 12 marines +1st banshee 7:57, cloak @8:45, +3 marines +1 tank +2nd banshee @ 8:56 gas • 1 marine + 1 marauder + CC ~@4:20, +1 marauder @4:40 » vs T no gas, into 1/1/1 • CC ~@3:45, fact ~@6:06, port ~@7:00 gas • 1 marine + CC ~@3:48 2 Rax Planetary Fortress Rush vs. P • 2 marines + ~%70 marauder + CC @4:28, 4 marines +3 marauders + %100 CC @6:08 Marine/SCV all in vs. Z » 2 Rax • 8 marines +~15 scvs @5:05 » 4 Rax • 15 marines +~20 scvs @6:05 2 Rax FE vs. Z • 6 marines + CC ~@4:24, 10 marines @5:15 3 Reaper Rush vs. T • 1st reaper @4:03, 3 reapers @5:05, CC @5:20 4OC vs. Z CC timings can vary greatly with this build, +/- 25s discrepancies are possible • CC's ~@4:10, ~5:10 and ~6:10 2 Rax FE vs. P • 2rax(tr) +1 marine +1 reaper +1 marauder + CC ~@5:10, +2 marines +1 marauder @5:22 3 Rax Marine stim push vs. Z • stim +8 marines @6:23 3 Rax MM stim + conc. push vs. P/T • stim + conc. +7 marines +4 marauders @6:41, +2 marines +2 marauders @7:05 2 Base Ghost Push vs. P • stim + conc. + 17 marines +8 marauders +2 ghosts @9:32 MMM Timing Push • conc. +8 marines +5 marauders +2 medivacs @7:40, stim @8:20 1/1/1 » Marine/Tank push vs. T • siege +9 marines +1 tank +1 viking @6:28, 2nd tank ~@7:03 » Hellion Drop • 8 marines +3 hellions +1 medivac @6:10 » Blu Flame Hellion Drop • 4 hellions +1 medivac @6:45 » Marine/Raven/Banshee/Tank Timing Push vs. P • siege +17 marines +2 tanks +1 raven +1 banshee @ 8:18 » Thor Drop • 7 marines +1 thor +1 medivac @6:50, 2nd medivac @7:23 Cloaked Banshee » Cloak First • 1st banshee @6:40, cloak @7:07, 2nd banshee @7:40 » Banshee First • 1st banshee @6:16, 2nd banshee @7:16, cloak @7:29 2 Port Banshee • 2 banshees @7:02, cloak +4 banshees @8:16 (+9 marines) Marine/Raven vs. Z 0376 Pokebunny. Average timing ~@11:05 • 44 marines +1 Raven @10:46 Reactor Hellion Expand • 4 hellions @5:27, CC ~@5:44 Hellion Marauder Push vs. Z • 8 hellions +6 marauders +2 marines +x scv's @7:12 Blu Flame Hellion • 3 hellions @5:53, pre-igniter @6:18, 4th hellion @6:33 2 Factory Mech » Thor - 9 marines +2 thors @7:36, +4 marines +2 hellions +2 thors @9:17 » Tank - 10 marines +3 tanks + siege @7:29, 4th tank @7:45
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cnflx.png)
+ Show Spoiler +2.1 Protoss General • A 10 gate completes @2:30. • A 13 gate completes @2:48. • One chronoboost lasts ~1.1 probe production cycle, or ~1.75 probe cycles when on the nexus. Also see the chronoboost math thread. • On a standard 13 gate 17 core, the core will finish at ~3:40. Also if no chronoboost is used on wgr, it will finish @~6:20. • It takes ~3:25 from placing a robo facility down to getting the 1st colossus (2:55 w/ 3 chronos). • The time between putting down a twilight council to having Templar with storm is ~3:30 (2:40 w/ constant chrono(5)). This assumes that Templar have 75 energy when research completes. • It takes ~2:35 from starting a twilight council to having Dark Templar in play. • If you begin a twilight council when +1 is ~%66 (110/160) complete, you will be able to begin +2 when the council finishes. 2.2 Protoss OpeningsCannon Rush • 1st canon begins ~@2:30 2 Gate • 3 zealots @4:00, 5 zealots @4:38 Forge Fast Expand vs. Z » Forge First • 17 Nexus ~@2:55, 17 gate ~@3:20, 1st cannon done ~@3:47 » Nexus First • 15 Nexus ~@2:29, gate ~@3:11, 1st cannon done ~@4:07 • 17 Nexus ~@2:36, gate ~@3:24, 1st cannon done ~@4:23 » FFE into Stargate (~@5:38) • 1 zealot +1 sentry +1 voidray @7:23 » FFE into 7gate +1/1 Immortal/Warp Prism • robo ~@8:16, 2 zealots +8 stalkers +9 sentries +2 immortals +1 warp prism ~@11:12 Nexus First vs. T • 16 Nexus ~@2:32, gate ~@2:47, core ~@3:54 1 Gate Expand vs. T » 20 food • Nexus ~@3:43, 5 stalkers @5:55 » ~30 food • 1 zealot +2 stalkers + Nexus ~@4:58 1 Gate Robo vs. P • 3 zealots +1 stalker +1 immortal @5:58, +2 zealots @6:17, 2nd immortal @6:33 3 Stalker Robo vs. P • %100 robo @6:06, 6 stalkers + 1 sentry @6:22 2 Gate Blink/Obs vs. P • 5 stalkers @5:58, +4 stalkers +blink @7:48 (robo +4 sec), obs @8:29 2 Gate fast Observer vs. T • nexus @6:00, 1 zealot +1 stalker +4 sentries +1 observer @6:13 2 Gate Stargate vs. T • 5 stalkers +1 voidray @6:26, +2 stalkers +2nd voidray @7:22 oGsMC Defensive 3 Gate vs. P » oGsMc variant • 1 zealot +4 stalkers +2 sentries @6:01 » NrGmonk variant (^ see thread) • 1 zealot +4 stalkers +2 sentries @6:07 Defensive 3 Gate vs. P • 1 zealot +6 stalkers @5:50 Sentry Expand vs Z » 2 Gate • nexus @5:46, 1 zealot +6 sentries @6:20 » 3 Gate • nexus @5:37, 1 zealot +5 sentries @5:58 3 Gate Expand vs T • nexus @5:50, 3 stalkers +3 sentries @6:16 oGsMC variant • nexus @4:55, 1 stalker +6 sentries @6:58, robo @7:28, forge +twilight @9:00, +3 gates @10:50 Immortal Push vs. T » 1 Gate Expand • nexus @5:12, robo @5:34, 3 stalkers +7 sentries +2 immortals @9:08 » 3 Gate Expand • nexus @5:50, robo @6:17, 4 stalkers +6 sentries +2 immortals @8:44 Dark Templar Rush • 1 zealot +3 dark templar @6:46 Dark Templar Expand » vs. Z • 2 zealots +3 sentries @6:16, nexus @6:22, +1 zealot +2 dark templar @7:14 » vs. T • 4 zealots +1 stalker +1 sentry @6:10, nexus @7:06, +2 zealots +1 sentry +2 dark templar @8:00 Blink Stalker » 4gate vs. Z • 8 stalkers @6:58, blink @7:10 1 Gas 4 Warpgate vs. P • wgr done @5:16, 1 zealot +6 stalkers @5:45 6 Gate vs. Z » Forge FE • +1 attack +14 stalkers +4 sentries @9:30 » 3 Gate Expo • 10 zealots +9 stalkers +7 sentries @9:40 (off a 5 gate) 1 Gate Stargate vs Z • 2 phoenices +1 voidray @7:04 (+3 zealots +2 stalkers +1 sentry) +1 Warp Prism Drop vs. Z • tech complete @6:20, prism + 5 zealots @6:30 2 Base 3 Colossus Push vs. T • Nexus @4:24, robo bay + dbl forge @7:32, +1/0/1 + thermal lance + 3 zealots +8 stalkers +5 sentries +3 colossus ~@11:15 2 Base dbl Forge vs. T • +2/0/2 + thermal lance + 17 zealots +15 stalkers +6 sentries +2 colossus ~@14:00
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3azIY.png)
+ Show Spoiler +3.1 Zerg General • 3:15 - Elapsed time from gas put down to ling speed finishing. • gas/pool - send drone for extractor at ~70mins (~100 gas when pool finishes). • A 10 pool completes @2:18. • 14 gas/pool, pool completes @3:12. • It takes ~3:10 from starting a Lair to having baneling/roach speed. • It takes ~3:33 from starting a Lair to having mutas on the field (~3:40 for corruptors). • From starting a Lair, to having both roach speed and tunneling claws is ~5:00. • It takes ~2:10 from starting an infestation pit, to having infestors in play with one fungal growth (beginning infestor production when pathogen glands are ~%40 done, or 31/80). If you skip pathogen glands, you will have infestors with one fungal in ~2:25. • From the time a Hive begins to having brood lords in play is ~3:54 (assumes you have made corruptors before greater spire completes and have a spire before hive completes). • It takes ~3:40 from starting a Hive to having ultralisks in play. • If you begin a Lair when +1 is ~%50 (80/160), you will be able to begin +2 when the Lair finishes. Similarly, if you start your Hive when +2 is ~%50 (~%20 if you need the infestation pit as well), you will be able to begin +3 when the Hive completes. 3.2 Zerg Average TimingsThese timings represent the average completion for various paths at the highest level of play regarding the current metagame (currently 1.4.3).• A Lair completes on average at ~9:21.
~8:43 zvp, ~9:03 zvt, ~10:19 zvz (swings approx. ±3 minutes)
• A Spire on 2 bases completes on average ~@12:01 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. ±60s discrepancies are
possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put on the zerg.
~12:06 zvp, ~10:57 zvt, ~11:49 zvz (swinging drastically)
• The Spire timing when preceded by an Infestation Pit completes on average ~@14:46
~13:44 zvp, ~13:37 zvt, zvz not viable (not enough data)
• The average Infestation Pit before Spire completes at ~11:58.
~11:56 zvp, ~11:28 zvt, ~12:31 zvz
• The average Infestation Pit after Spire completes at ~13:42.
~13:23 zvp, ~13:47 zvt, ~13:55 zvz
• A Hive completes on average at ~16:52.
~16:10 zvp, ~16:33 zvt, ~17:23 zvz (swinging wildly)
• A Hive where the Infestation Pit is first completes on average at ~15:52.
~15:26 zvp, ~15:02 zvt, ~17:08 zvz (swinging wildly) 3.3 Zerg Openings » 6 Pool • 6pool, 6 lings @2:11 » 3 Roach Rush • 3 Roaches @3:33 » 3 Roach/Speedling vs. P • 3 Roaches @4:27, speed +12 lings @5:10 » Roach/Speedling All In vs. FFE P • 7 roaches + 10 speedlings @6:20 » 7 Roach Rush • 6 Roaches @4:43, 7th @4:50 » Baneling Bust • 6 banes +14 lings @5:20 (ZvZ: 1st 4 banelings possible @4:59) » Roach/Speedling Expand vs. Z • +1 missle attk +13 roaches +38 speedlings @9:25 The timings below represent the earliest possible completion for each specific tech path. Beginning with lair tech, these timings will begin to vary, sometimes drastically, from normal/standard/stable playstyles.+ Show Spoiler [earliest timngs] +1 Base Play
» 14 gas/pool, ling speed + queen +2 lings
- transition to lair -
• lair @5:22
• spire @7:02, 4-5 mutas possible
2 Base Play
14 Gas/Pool
• 14gas, 14pool, 15OL, queen + 2 lings, 20Hatch down ~@3:55, ling speed @5:02,
*2nd queen begins when 1st inject is ~%85 done*
transition to lair
• lair @6:45
• hydra den @7:25
• infestation pit @7:35 -> pathogen glands @8:55
• OL speed @7:45 -> ventral sacs @8:55
• spire(see 3.2)/burrow @8:25
• roach speed/baneling speed @8:35
transition to hive
• hive @9:15
• ultralisk cavern @10:20
• greater spire @10:55
14Pool/16Hatch
» 16 Hatch down ~@2:42, 20 gas, ling speed @6:45
transition to lair + 3rd queen
• lair @7:10
Hatch First (dbl Queen)
» 14Hatch • timings ~5s faster than 15hatch
» 15Hatch • down ~@2:12, ling speed @6:15,
transition to lair + 3rd queen
• lair @6:33
• hydra den @7:13
• infestation pit @7:23 -> pathogen glands @8:43
• OL speed @7:30 -> ventral sacs @8:40
• spire(see 3.2)/burrow @8:13
• roach speed/baneling speed @8:23
transition to hive
• hive @9:03
• ultralisk cavern @10:08
• greater spire @10:43
4.0 Acknolwedgements
+ Show Spoiler +Thanks to the people who have helped in keeping this up to date and accurate
Big ♥'s to TL.net for advertising!
Najda, pAzand, monk, Sleight
5.0 References
~8% faster gas mining
Liquipedia II
Timing, A BroodWar [G] by Chill
SC2 Recommended Threads
Protoss FAQs
Ladder Map Analyzer Pics
+ Show Spoiler [Needed Additions] +
+ Show Spoiler [Deprecated] + Deprecated Timings+ Show Spoiler +Either there were patch changes that made these openings (or timings) obsolete, or metagame shifts that effectively did the same+ Show Spoiler [1.3.3 metagame timtings ZvX] + • A Lair completes on average at ~8:26.
~8:28 zvt, ~8:24 zvp, zvz swings drastically with this timing
• A Spire on 2 bases completes on average ~@10:35 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. +/- 60s discrepancies are possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put on the zerg.
~10:20 zvt, ~10:51 zvp, zvz not viable (swings drastically)
• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~12:31.
~12:24 zvt, ~12:14 zvp, ~12:54 zvz
• A Hive completes on average at ~15:37.
~15:42 zvt, ~15:33 zvp, zvz not viable (again, swings drastically) • A Lair completes on average at ~8:00.
~7:48 zvt, ~8:03 zvp, zvz swings drastically with this timing
• A Spire on 2 bases completes ~@9:12 with 5-9 mutas able to be produced. +/- 60s discrepancies are possible as this timing is very dependent upon the amount of pressure put on the zerg.
• The average Infestation Pit completes at ~15:00.
~14:42 zvt, ~15:35 zvp, ~14:52 zvz
• A Hive completes on average at ~17:00.
~16:54 zvt, ~17:20 zvp Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?Yes (249) 55% Yes, but only if they are pro reps (158) 35% No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (24) 5% meh... (13) 3% No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6) 1% 450 total votes Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...
Last edit: 2012-10-29 21:21:30 |
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| iChau United States. March 18 2011 22:07. Posts 1209 | Profile # |
| Oh, nice. This is very helpful. |
| | us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/ |
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| Vulcant United States. March 18 2011 22:11. Posts 53 | Profile # |
| Thanks, needed a couple BOs. Zerg player here. |
| | Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results. -George S. Patton |
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| dzieciol001 Poland. March 18 2011 22:12. Posts 16 | Profile # |
| Update with BO and it will be super effective ! |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 19 2011 02:11. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
On March 18 2011 22:12 dzieciol001 wrote:
Update with BO and it will be super effective !
I will not add the order here, but was thinking of linking the Liquipedia page, or TL page where appropriate. I just have to figure out a concise way of doing that. |
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| Turgid United States. March 19 2011 02:26. Posts 1623 | Profile Blog # |
| I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush? Last edit: 2011-03-19 02:27:01 |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 19 2011 03:54. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2011 02:26 Turgid wrote:
I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush?
Bothers me when I do that. I re-examined the positions, and the 6 stalker version is inherently better, and completes at 5:44.Last edit: 2011-03-19 08:30:36 |
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| gavinashun March 19 2011 05:25. Posts 101 | Profile # |
| I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them? |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 19 2011 06:23. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:
I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?
I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there.Last edit: 2011-03-19 07:36:27 |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 19 2011 08:06. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
| OP has been updated with links to relevant Liquipedia pages! |
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| gavinashun March 19 2011 08:28. Posts 101 | Profile # |
On March 19 2011 06:23 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:
I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?
I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there.
Cool cool - thanks for putting together! |
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| Najda United States. March 19 2011 10:55. Posts 1772 | Profile Blog # |
A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.
1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)
Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)
2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15
Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)
2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)
Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)Last edit: 2011-03-19 13:41:53 |
| | "Admit your flaws, admire your weakness, hone your imperfections – then may you address your desires." — Paul Crik |
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| caracarn Sweden. March 19 2011 11:24. Posts 141 | Profile # |
| This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings. Last edit: 2011-03-19 11:25:03 |
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| Najda United States. March 19 2011 12:47. Posts 1772 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.
I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for. |
| | "Admit your flaws, admire your weakness, hone your imperfections – then may you address your desires." — Paul Crik |
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| H0bgawblin United States. March 19 2011 12:51. Posts 92 | Profile # |
| Can we have this sticked or on liquipedia or something? This is super important. |
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| plbro81 March 19 2011 14:24. Posts 117 | Profile Blog # |
| at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well. |
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| AnxiousHippo Australia. March 19 2011 19:02. Posts 1445 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.
I feel like it helps Zerg a lot considering we play DRONEDRONEDRONE UNIIIIIIIIIITS |
| | An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 19 2011 22:11. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote:+ Show Spoiler +A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint. 1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time) Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay) 2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15 Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines) 2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper) Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)
I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?
Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?Yes (249) 55% Yes, but only if they are pro reps (158) 35% No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (24) 5% meh... (13) 3% No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6) 1% 450 total votes Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...
On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.
I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.
Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.
On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.
These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings.Last edit: 2011-03-19 22:13:37 |
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| Najda United States. March 20 2011 02:25. Posts 1772 | Profile Blog # |
+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2011 22:11 wo1fwood wrote:
On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote:+ Show Spoiler +A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint. 1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time) Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay) 2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15 Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines) 2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper) Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)
I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful? Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?Yes (249) 55% Yes, but only if they are pro reps (158) 35% No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (24) 5% meh... (13) 3% No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6) 1% 450 total votes Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps
(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement
(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this
(Vote): meh...
On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:
Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:
This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.
I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.
Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.
On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:
at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.
These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings.
In response to the poll, I think for a full game replay I'd definately want to see a pro to use it, but for the replays that I was providing (just reaching the timings and stopping) it'd be fine for anyone with decent mechanics to provide a replay. The variables are so limited in the early game that you can clearly see if the player is making a mistake or not.
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| | "Admit your flaws, admire your weakness, hone your imperfections – then may you address your desires." — Paul Crik |
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| wo1fwood United States. March 20 2011 21:00. Posts 2268 | Profile Blog # |
| I would tend to agree with this^^, although I think I would set a few stipulations. For example, unless there is a defined worker count or the opening is an all in, # workers would matter as well. Another would be having to send out one worker to serve as a 'scout' at the appropriate time? |
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