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 ChoboCop United States. November 30 2004 15:35. Posts 795 | Profile |
| Blasian beat me to it, Lebron is hot, but not the best rookie ever. |
| | Turn off the TV and read! Read nicca! Read! -Immortal Technique |
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 TH-GP Australia. December 01 2004 02:49. Posts 226 | Profile |
On November 20 2004 13:15 Servolisk wrote:
TMac lead his team to the play offs all by himself. Lebron almost did it his rookie year. Kobe will probably miss the play offs.
8th in west is like 3rd in east -.- so if lakers was in east playoffs would be auto. If you actually seen both tmac and kobe play, doesnt take 200IQ to know kobe is way better in all areas, Lebron is different, he could be 30-10-10 next season, who knows |
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 XaI)CyRiC United States. December 01 2004 03:25. Posts 2954 | Profile |
Jordan didn't win championships alone, Kobe didn't win championships alone. However what makes them both great and often compared to each other is the fact that they were able to do what few players in the NBA can do, do what it takes for their team to win a championship. Sure Shaq did a lot of the work for the Lakers, but he will never be able to win a championship without a closer like Kobe as he becomes a liability in the end of games moreso than a boon. We could also argue that Jordan would never have been able to win his championships without his strong supporting cast, no single player can ever beat a team by themselves.
Both players realized at some point that they couldn't do it by themselves, and were able to win championships when they realized that. Both players had their teams get themselves in a position to win and then were able to make the big plays in the 4th quarter to put the nail in the coffin (or close the refrigerator for the Chick fans out there  ). I actually find the both of them to be very comparable, Jordan IMO is not a whole other level above Kobe.
Although, if we really want to argue about people who win championships, Phil Jackson wins that award hands down. He found a way for both Jordan and Kobe to use their talent to win championships, both players were lacking that special championship-winning quality before Phil was put in the equation.
P.S. Oh yeah and Lebron will always be a level below both Jordan and Kobe until the day gets a ring. |
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 rednob Korea (South). December 01 2004 05:20. Posts 210 | Profile |
On November 30 2004 05:59 Relifed wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 30 2004 05:42 rednob wrote:
I know this will be offensive but does anyone wonder if he used steroids at some point? He is so strong for a basketball player at 18.
Some people just develop physically faster. And he's 18? thouyght he was a bit older.
I think the point was that he was a muscley NBA manbeast while still playing highschool, even compared to college basketball players.
Sure some people just develop physically faster. But also, some people just use steroid. |
| | A forum is as good as its worst member, or maybe a little better than that if you are good at skimming. |
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 iloveoo December 01 2004 06:31. Posts 634 | Profile |
Cyric, the thing is, Jordan's teammates really weren't so hot...........at all
only Rodman was actually somewhat successful at a team other than Bulls.....
scottie pipen was easily one of the most overrated players .... maybe of all times?
i remember how people would go on and on about how pipen "completed MJ", but the truth is even I could complete MJ (him putting 98% and me the other 2% that is  )
he failed at Huston, he failed at Portland, he failed at Chicago when he returned.... and we are supposed to be talking about a Hall-Of-Fame player
i guess someone could also add Toni Kukoc (sure we love him in Europe so a little bias here, but still ), as he also had a somewhat 'constant' carrer with or without MJ
NOONE ELSE !
MJ DID win championships alone =]
but i doubt he could have done the unrepeatable 72-10 record without pippen or rodman |
| | Unaborted babies shoot up their school, molest children, and make shitty music. |
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| Relifed Dominican Republic. December 01 2004 06:52. Posts 47 | Profile |
On December 01 2004 05:20 rednob wrote:
Show nested quote +On November 30 2004 05:59 Relifed wrote:
On November 30 2004 05:42 rednob wrote:
I know this will be offensive but does anyone wonder if he used steroids at some point? He is so strong for a basketball player at 18.
Some people just develop physically faster. And he's 18? thouyght he was a bit older.
I think the point was that he was a muscley NBA manbeast while still playing highschool, even compared to college basketball players. Sure some people just develop physically faster. But also, some people just use steroid.
True, but don't these guy get blood tested before they enter NBA, or spotted as potential young players in high school? afaik most steroids stay in the blood stream for some time. |
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| DSky.Flayer Finland. December 01 2004 07:09. Posts 102 | Profile | |
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 tiffany December 01 2004 07:28. Posts 3408 | Profile |
On December 01 2004 06:52 Relifed wrote:
Show nested quote +On December 01 2004 05:20 rednob wrote:
On November 30 2004 05:59 Relifed wrote:
On November 30 2004 05:42 rednob wrote:
I know this will be offensive but does anyone wonder if he used steroids at some point? He is so strong for a basketball player at 18.
Some people just develop physically faster. And he's 18? thouyght he was a bit older.
I think the point was that he was a muscley NBA manbeast while still playing highschool, even compared to college basketball players. Sure some people just develop physically faster. But also, some people just use steroid.
True, but don't these guy get blood tested before they enter NBA, or spotted as potential young players in high school? afaik most steroids stay in the blood stream for some time.
i don't think it's very healthy to use so much steroids at such a young age. give lebron and his family some credit for his 'manliness' and give the nba some credit for cracking down on drug use such that you never hear about steroids being problems for players. |
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| tiffany December 01 2004 07:30. Posts 3408 | Profile |
i totally agree with cyric, that has to be the most unbiased post i've read - none of that kobe bashing just because you want to jump on the bandwagon; and none of the jordan praising just because you've heard about him.
although i have to say that kobe is not the finisher jordan is; MJ's number of game-winning shots video clips rolls for minutes and minutes. |
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| rednob Korea (South). December 01 2004 08:20. Posts 210 | Profile |
| I think plenty of highschool players can use steroids during the offseason and clean up and pass tests, correct? In moderation it is probably just fine anyways. Go LeBron! |
| | A forum is as good as its worst member, or maybe a little better than that if you are good at skimming. |
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| XaI)CyRiC United States. December 03 2004 12:52. Posts 2954 | Profile |
On December 01 2004 06:31 iloveoo wrote:Cyric, the thing is, Jordan's teammates really weren't so hot...........at all only Rodman was actually somewhat successful at a team other than Bulls..... scottie pipen was easily one of the most overrated players .... maybe of all times? i remember how people would go on and on about how pipen "completed MJ", but the truth is even I could complete MJ (him putting 98% and me the other 2% that is ) he failed at Huston, he failed at Portland, he failed at Chicago when he returned.... and we are supposed to be talking about a Hall-Of-Fame player i guess someone could also add Toni Kukoc (sure we love him in Europe so a little bias here, but still ), as he also had a somewhat 'constant' carrer with or without MJ NOONE ELSE ! MJ DID win championships alone =] but i doubt he could have done the unrepeatable 72-10 record without pippen or rodman
Pippen was a good player, and he did everything Jordan needed. Believe me, I'm not a Scottie fan (far from it), but I do recognize that his defense and all around game was very impressive and played a large part in the Bulls' championship runs.
The team was also always able to find some good role players like Rodman, Kerr, Kukoc, etc. who didn't demand the ball or get envious of Jordan (he didn't have the problems that Shaq and Kobe did as a result). Jordan was the undisputed star of his team, the rest of his teammates were fine with it and just did what their coach asked them to so they could win. Again, no stellar players (besides Pippen) but people who did what they were asked to quite well w/o complaint.
And once again, I think we all need to realize the great coach that Phil Jackson is. As good as Jordan and Kobe are, they didn't win championships until Phil entered the picture. Too much of a coincidence to ignore eh? |
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 Casper... Liberia. December 03 2004 13:11. Posts 4948 | Profile |
people tend to ignore that PJ is a great endgame tactical coach and overstate his ability to bring a team together (although getting Pippen to co-exist with Rodman was really amazing)
PJ's teams find a way to get the looks and stops they need at the end of games, more so than any other coach in recent memory (with the possible exception of Pat Riley)
the difference is having a finisher like MJ or KB |
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| Casper... Liberia. December 03 2004 13:23. Posts 4948 | Profile |
think of all the also-rans over the years:
lakers (ok they were too old)
phoenix with barkley and johnson - road play and endgame execution
portland (ok they had no chance)
seattle - karl actually had them running brilliant shit in the endgame; road play was breakeven; pippen (the real finals MVP) was so fucking good that series, he pushed the ball nonstop and got them billions of points off semi-breaks and locked the hell out of schrempf or hawkins; jordan's wonky knee had him barely playing breakeven with payton and kemp went nuts but pippen was too good
utah with malone and stockton - road play was breakeven, again came down to endgame execution
before PJ came along they'd just draw something up and allow Jordan to improvise, which was fine, but when he was forced to dish off it would be to a generally unprepared target
with PJ Jordan was able to visualize and anticipate defensive responses MUCH better giving him cleaner DEFINED options to PREPARED TARGETS in the endgame
PJ also thinks at an extremely high level compared to other coaches. i'm talking about shit like showing them mediocre endgame plays during the regular season and possibly tossing those games as a result just to see how they defend it then coming up with godly shit built on those solicited defensive schemes |
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| tiffany December 03 2004 17:30. Posts 3408 | Profile | |
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 Na[12]Sil United States. December 03 2004 18:32. Posts 184 | Profile |
| i honestly dont really know anything about lebron or know how good he is b/c i rarely get to see his team play (no cable tv t.t) but just from my opinion i really think he will be a superstar, but not michael jordan. michael jordan came at the perfect time, when weird things weren't done that he did (make any sense? lol) but lebron coming after jordan, people can be like..eh seen it but thats just my opinion |
| | I bust mine so I can kick yours Tough times dont last forever Tough people do. AKA on USwest: ObscureLogic |
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 eternalbliss United States. December 03 2004 21:10. Posts 1035 | Profile | |
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