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[G] Spanishiwa's No Gas FE ZvX

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58
 
 Spanishiwa   United States. March 31 2011 11:03. Posts 89
Profile # 
A note to readers: I would appreciate it if you would refer to this build as 'The Ice Fisher' or 'The Ice Fisher Build' or I guess Spanishiwa's build or something would suffice.

EDIT: Replays are up, request more if you want to see more. Finding pictures was such a pain though, so I'm gonna be lazy and put that off for awhile. The replays also show the old 16 hatch/15 pool build order that was advocated in this thread. I now prefer 13h/15p. The concept is the same, just the timings are a little different (13h/15p is slightly faster and more economical, so it's just better overall).

Verdict is still out on which is better.. 16h 15p or 13h 15p. 13h won't get blocked as often, but the economic advantage is slightly less than 16h if you're forced to make early lings. Also experimenting with an 11p 18h build zvz, to prevent early pool + spine shenanigans.

Intro

+ Show Spoiler +

Overview

+ Show Spoiler +
ZvT

+ Show Spoiler +

ZvP

+ Show Spoiler +

ZvZ

+ Show Spoiler +

Replays: Keep in mind that whether or not I lose in the end is not really important. What's important is that I get into the mid/late game on equal footing, or with an advantage. Or (if my timings were off/didn't scout correctly/etc) I would be ahead, if I had played it better.

ZvZ

+ Show Spoiler +

ZvP

+ Show Spoiler +

ZvT

+ Show Spoiler +

MrBitter's 12 weeks with the Pros (MLG prep) episode

Also: Some/most of the replays are pre-patch, but if you don't think that this strategy works, feel free to watch the mrbitters episode, check out my replay pack that I will be releasing soon, or check out my stream any time.

Last things to note! Doesn't work on scrap (yet!), 2 rax all scv all in close positions it doesn't work, proxy 2 gate it doesn't work (although I've pulled it off before, but that's.. a different story), 6 pool you have to cancel the hatchery, pylon block by P with no viable 3rd = it won't work

Queen Energy Management: Don't spend it all on tumors at once, keep some in reserve for transfusions unless you know there won't be pressure or you've switched to unit production. About 5 or so tumors should be enough for the early game.

Upon recommendation, I'm plugging my stream (is this allowed?): Spanishiwa's Stream
Last edit: 2011-04-10 07:51:34
ZING
Old Post

 
 HTODethklok   United States. March 31 2011 11:05. Posts 221
Profile # 
Awesome finally a write up on this strat ive been using this after watching you on 12 weeks with MrBitter with great results!
Guns for show... Knives for a pro HTODethklok.201 NA
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 Moki.tv   United States. March 31 2011 11:08. Posts 38
Profile # 
I agree, these builds get u a ridiculous econ lead. If P/T fail to put any pressure on, Z is way way ahead
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 nanoscorp   United States. March 31 2011 11:20. Posts 1204
Profile Blog # 
Thanks for the guide! Any tips on Queen energy management? Assuming constant injects on both hatches along with that early creep tumor for connecting main and nat, do you just keep throwing down new creep tumors or is there a point at which you try to bank some energy for transfuse?
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 Garth   United States. March 31 2011 11:22. Posts 327
Profile Blog # 
how do you think this works vs double stalker/ heavy stalker pressure?
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 HEROwithNOlegacy   United States. March 31 2011 11:22. Posts 850
Profile # 
Thank you so much for posting! After seeing you talk about this on Mrbitter's stream I wanted to know the build more specifically and get my hands on a replay of you executing it! Thanks and I hope you continue to stream!
SlayerS Fighting!
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 DemiAlbedo   Canada. March 31 2011 11:30. Posts 69
Profile # 
Love your build Spanishiwa. I use a slightly different build order, but it basically contains all the main elements of your build.

Your build is so strong at defending early pressure and the extra queens give a nice amount of creep tumours at the start of the game for vision. It is really helpful in preparing for early aggression when you can spot it coming a mile away.

I think the only thing your post is missing is a plug to your stream. I heard about you from 12 weeks with the pros on mr.bitters stream, but you should totally plug your stream because its so good.
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 HTODethklok   United States. March 31 2011 11:39. Posts 221
Profile # 

On March 31 2011 11:20 nanoscorp wrote:
Thanks for the guide! Any tips on Queen energy management? Assuming constant injects on both hatches along with that early creep tumor for connecting main and nat, do you just keep throwing down new creep tumors or is there a point at which you try to bank some energy for transfuse?


Ive been watching his stream for the last week and what it looks like is if thinks early pressure is coming hell save some transfuses but once he knows he safe hell lite the map up with purple goo! Heres a link to his stream http://www.justin.tv/spanishiwa#/w/1026117072
Guns for show... Knives for a pro HTODethklok.201 NA
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 Deuces   United States. March 31 2011 11:41. Posts 18
Profile # 
I watched your MrBitter episode and, I'll be honest, I was as skeptical as Bitter was. Interested in trying it though. It seems like a good strategy.

What is the significance of The Ice Fisher?
You are, what you do, when it counts.
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 kcdc   United States. March 31 2011 11:43. Posts 2311
Profile Blog # 
Pretty sure you kicked the crap out of me on ladder with this. The only concern I'd have is that with an early defense of spines+queens, you have almost no ability to pressure. When I watched the replay, I was like, "huh, shit, I could have taken my third at 8 minutes." Infestor + bling bombs are so cost-efficient vs P in lategame, tho, so I'm not sure if taking a faster third would have won the game anyway.
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 dsdoodle   March 31 2011 11:45. Posts 1
Profile # 
This is an amazing build.. I picked it up and helped me pick up my game immensely! I'm only gold though, so maybe that doesn't mean a lot :D.
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 imareaver3   United States. March 31 2011 11:50. Posts 861
Profile # 
Great guide! But can you please post a ZvP replay of a completely standard game? I just want to get a better idea of how it plays out in that matchup if he doesn't do anything funny.
 
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 RabidSeagull   United States. March 31 2011 11:54. Posts 214
Profile # 
Looks really cool, well written too
That'll do Pigley, that'll do . . .
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 DrDoom   United States. March 31 2011 11:56. Posts 107
Profile # 
Awesome guide! I've been looking at revamping my builds lately and this should help a ton.
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 grungust   United States. March 31 2011 12:12. Posts 290
Profile # 
Been watching spanishiwa's stream for a while now. love seeing him dominate with this build. I use it now in my own games as well. Glad you got it up and posted and are now credited for your awesome build!
Flash 신
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 Klogbert   United States. March 31 2011 12:23. Posts 139
Profile # 
Some love.

User was warned for this post
Old Post

 
 Whale   United States. March 31 2011 12:29. Posts 18
Profile Blog # 
I can't watch the replays atm, so whats the timing on that 40 food right after you gas?
Old Post

 
 Kelethius   Canada. March 31 2011 12:35. Posts 187
Profile # 
watch this guys stream, his builds deserve the title "innovative" because nobody plays like this and his builds actually work really well. this guys a baller. Insane cheese defense.
Last edit: 2011-03-31 12:41:29
Old Post

 
 grungust   United States. March 31 2011 13:36. Posts 290
Profile # 

On March 31 2011 12:35 Kelethius wrote:
watch this guys stream, his builds deserve the title "innovative" because nobody plays like this and his builds actually work really well. this guys a baller. Insane cheese defense.

Yeah it's really helped me hold 4 gate and what not.
Flash 신
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 zylog   Canada. March 31 2011 13:51. Posts 941
Profile # 
I'm excited to see this. I started trying these 16 hatch builds since I saw it last week on the 12 weeks show, and I've been checking out your stream too. It gets such a good economy with stupendous amounts of creep spread. I just need to learn how to deal with different types of early pressure.
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