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| Armathai Germany. May 10 2011 03:15. Posts 999 | Profile # |
On May 10 2011 01:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 10:28 hacklebeast wrote:
If that's what he was asking, it would look something like this:
3 hatch>14cc>12hatch>1 rax fe>12pool>overpool>2 rax>9 pool>bbs>5pool
this is wrong
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it more like
3hatch before pool = 14 CC > 12hatch=1rax FE >12pool >overpool = 2rax CC >9pool > BBS >5pool
economically speaking. |
| | JD/Flash/Stork/Nada/Xellos/Sea/Ret/Mondragon/Tyler Fan |
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| koreasilver Canada. May 10 2011 05:07. Posts 7491 | Profile Blog # |
| 12hatch doesn't explain anything. If you go 2hatch tech then you're going to be economically behind any 1rax fe build. Just saying "1rax fe" doesn't explain things enough either, as there are different 1rax fe openings. I'm also very, very certain that 2rax cc > overpool. |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt |
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| Hidden_MotiveS Canada. May 10 2011 05:39. Posts 2019 | Profile Blog # |
On May 09 2011 22:09 Frigo wrote:
60 drones on 3 bases? That's 17 drones on minerals for each base, meaning 4 or perhaps 3 hatcheries per base, or 10 to 17 overall (5 to 3 drones on minerals per hatch). That drone count is more appropriate for 4 bases, with 2 hatcheries at each base, increased to 3 hatcheries if the money allows it. And a 4 base zerg with 60 drones and time to power up completely OWNS a 2-base terran, no matter how many SCVs he has.
A more realistic comparison would be 42 drones (3*[11+3]) vs somewhere between 42 and 60 SCVs (2*[9*2..3+3]).
Of course the question itself is silly, you can't make a straight comparison due to several factors, including the different mechanics of the races, different unit costs, different unit mixes, time available to power up, timing windows, etc.
Yeah, that part is wrong. Sorry, I meant to say 48 workers for both. |
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| zulu_nation8 China. May 10 2011 08:47. Posts 18693 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2011 03:15 Armathai wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 01:09 zulu_nation8 wrote:
On May 09 2011 10:28 hacklebeast wrote:
If that's what he was asking, it would look something like this:
3 hatch>14cc>12hatch>1 rax fe>12pool>overpool>2 rax>9 pool>bbs>5pool
this is wrong
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it more like 3hatch before pool = 14 CC > 12hatch=1rax FE >12pool >overpool = 2rax CC >9pool > BBS >5pool economically speaking.
This is better but there are too many variations to compile a simple ranking out of. |
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| Release United States. May 10 2011 08:57. Posts 3973 | Profile Blog # |
I've seen that a single lurker takes absolutely no damage under a swarm, but
Do clumped lurkers under swarm take damage? |
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| Hidden_MotiveS Canada. May 10 2011 09:10. Posts 2019 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2011 08:57 Release wrote:
I've seen that a single lurker takes absolutely no damage under a swarm, but
Do clumped lurkers under swarm take damage?
Lurkers under swarm, even clumped, take no damage from sieged tanks. If you irradiate a single lurker in a clump, only that irradiated lurker will take damage.
Dark swarm prevents direct damage from ranged attacks on units.
Burrow prevents indirect splash damage. |
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| Magus Canada. May 10 2011 09:39. Posts 291 | Profile Blog # |
| Guys, did you just miss the huge discussion on dark swarm where we proved lurkers can be hurt under swarm while burrowed in certain circumstances? |
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| Release United States. May 10 2011 10:26. Posts 3973 | Profile Blog # |
I read that and im confused. Some people saying lurkers cant be killed from under swarm. Some people say they can. This is supposed to be simple answers. SO:
Can clumped lurkers be damaged under swarm from sieged siege tanks? yes or noLast edit: 2011-05-10 10:33:45 |
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| hauton Hong Kong. May 10 2011 11:34. Posts 735 | Profile # |
Edit: from Liquipedia
Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.
So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.Last edit: 2011-05-10 11:44:50 |
| | keep it up, youll either be famous or homeless one day |
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| Rustymike Finland. May 10 2011 12:54. Posts 327 | Profile Blog # |
Ok. This is kinda semiofftopic but.
Has anyone besides me tried this in ZvT? After the standard 3hatchmuta opening into lurkerling, where you inch by inch move back slowly, take one or two of your lurkers and put them on hold position behind Terrans possible 2nd expansion mineral lines (since he is only on two bases at this point). After the game moves towards late game and he has saturated the expansion, remove the hold command. It's like an invisible drop. I've tried it against two terrans and they didn't know what hit them.
I think I've never seen in any provods either the Terran scanning their possible expansions before taking them (well only if there is a ling blocking them burrowed). |
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| Magus Canada. May 10 2011 13:22. Posts 291 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2011 11:34 hauton wrote:Edit: from Liquipedia
Show nested quote +Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.
So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.
You forgot the part I bolded in there, which means lurkers in front of the targeted lurker can be killed if the tank shot is on top of them. |
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| Release United States. May 10 2011 14:58. Posts 3973 | Profile Blog # |
On May 10 2011 13:22 Magus wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 11:34 hauton wrote:Edit: from Liquipedia
Dark Swarm
Under Dark Swarm, the projectile is shifted to the side. Therefore, the point of impact is also shifted to the side. Since the point of impact is shifted to the side, units under Dark Swarm are only affected by the splash damage of those units with radial splash. In addition, if a unit is on top of the shifted point of impact, it takes full damage from the attack. Burrowed units do not take damage from radial splash under Dark Swarm. There are a few exceptions to this effect, and they are the: Reaver, Infested Terran, Firebat, and Spider Mine. In the case of these units, they don't have a projectile attack sprite, so their attacks are not shifted at all. The two airborne radial splash damage dealers both do not attack ground, thus they never come into conflict with Dark Swarm.
So I think this is conclusively saying that Siege Tanks do not do any damage to Lurkers. They are a ranged damage whose radial splash does not fall within the list of these exceptions.
You forgot the part I bolded in there, which means lurkers in front of the targeted lurker can be killed if the tank shot is on top of them.
Thinking about the discussion, the dark swarm works by moving the projectile 1 unit grid from the target, therefore nullifying any direct damage, and the burrow ignores splash damage. However, the projectile, now one unit grid away from the original target, will "directly" attack the spot, damaging, killing, even burrowed units. I think this is the most logical explanation. |
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 zatic Germany. May 12 2011 17:03. Posts 11722 | Profile Blog # |
On May 09 2011 06:42 Murderotica wrote:
I saw that the SC2 forum has created something good for a change and that is the SQ/SA thread.
Pah, elitists! |
| | I know Teamliquid is known as a massive building |
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| koreasilver Canada. May 12 2011 22:53. Posts 7491 | Profile Blog # |
| lol at the first two responses in the SC2 thread |
| | "I don't think that the polls accurately reflect how far this race has swung in Romney's favor. I'm still expecting a landslide victory for Romney." - TL's very own Nostradamous, xDaunt |
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| [Cute]Pjnkje Vietnam. May 15 2011 12:26. Posts 48 | Profile # |
...and the burrow ignores splash damage
Many say that splash damage cant hurt burrowed units, but I often see an Archon attack a zealot to kill the burrowed Lurker, so ...? |
| | High APM is when you press the "gg + ctrl + Q + Q" combination before your opponent has chance to reply "gg" |
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| Percutio United States. May 15 2011 14:17. Posts 1366 | Profile Blog # |
| Not under dark swam I'm guessing |
| | What does it matter how I loose it? |
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| fazek42 Hungary. May 15 2011 18:20. Posts 122 | Profile # |
| Is there a reson behind many BO-s in TvP saying you should build your rax at 12, as well as your refinery? I usually just build my rax at 11 and the refinery at 12. What is the reasoning behind building both at 12? |
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| buhhy Canada. May 16 2011 03:48. Posts 947 | Profile # |
| Guys, I have tested. Tanks can indeed kill lurkers under swarm. Will post screenies later. |
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| Magus Canada. May 16 2011 04:13. Posts 291 | Profile Blog # |
On May 16 2011 03:48 buhhy wrote:
Guys, I have tested. Tanks can indeed kill lurkers under swarm. Will post screenies later.
We already tested and answered this.
Twice.
Does no one read page 2?  |
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| buhhy Canada. May 16 2011 04:14. Posts 947 | Profile # | |
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