question: I read about how to stop cannon rushers, specifically when they do it BEHIND the natural mineral line! ARGH!
But what is this mineral jump trick that they speak of? Without it I cannot get 3-4 workers on each cannon. Can someone teach me how to do this? Itching to start shutting the BS down
Select your workers, then spam right click on a mineral patch so they are all stacked. Then spam click on the other side of the patches. Some if the workers will eventual glitch their way over. The key is to have them go to a spot where they are surrounded by minerals. Ideally the minerals make a slot so they are surrounded on three sides by minerals, but you should at least find a spot where the minerals make a right angle.
thank you sir. I just tried it and it works very well. Not hard to do. I can't wait until someone tries to C-rush me again.
hacklebeast United States. December 26 2011 14:47. Posts 4643
question: I read about how to stop cannon rushers, specifically when they do it BEHIND the natural mineral line! ARGH!
But what is this mineral jump trick that they speak of? Without it I cannot get 3-4 workers on each cannon. Can someone teach me how to do this? Itching to start shutting the BS down
Select your workers, then spam right click on a mineral patch so they are all stacked. Then spam click on the other side of the patches. Some if the workers will eventual glitch their way over. The key is to have them go to a spot where they are surrounded by minerals. Ideally the minerals make a slot so they are surrounded on three sides by minerals, but you should at least find a spot where the minerals make a right angle.
thank you sir. I just tried it and it works very well. Not hard to do. I can't wait until someone tries to C-rush me again.
yea, it's not hard Just be sure to not pull that many probes. Not only are you losing early game mining, but if you push too many through then they will continue to glitch out over the cannons, and they won't attack.
On December 25 2011 07:15 NrGmonk wrote: 2 years ago dropship play dominated TvT, but now all I see in the mid game are wraith-valkyire wars. Can someone give me a detailed explanation why this metagame shift occurred?
because wraiths are used to counter the dships, and to counter the wraiths they build valks. well, that's how i understand it lol
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Retgery Canada. December 27 2011 00:45. Posts 1165
What advice do you have for a protoss that has a hard time going for the kill. My macro is decent and I do well in engagements but I'm just awful at going for the finishing blow and games wind up in the late game which I'm not very good at. This is a huge problem in PvZ cause I always wind up letting him macro up and mass ultras.
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therockmanxx Peru. December 27 2011 01:08. Posts 1104
How I fight against a Protoss death ball vT terran I dont have much problem, ( delay push with lurkers scourge, macro and attack at the last moment) But Toss has stronger units, sometimes some times he can just roll over my lurkers or what ever is in the middle of the map, then I lost map controlled and is really hard to defend bases at that point.
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Puyi United States. December 27 2011 02:58. Posts 161
On December 27 2011 01:08 therockmanxx wrote: How I fight against a Protoss death ball vT terran I dont have much problem, ( delay push with lurkers scourge, macro and attack at the last moment) But Toss has stronger units, sometimes some times he can just roll over my lurkers or what ever is in the middle of the map, then I lost map controlled and is really hard to defend bases at that point.
if ur going lurkers obs the the highest priority. kill them and their push will have to fall back
puppykiller United States. December 27 2011 04:42. Posts 1977
On December 25 2011 08:28 puppykiller wrote: anybody got some pro vods of 2 rax acad vs zerg from relatively recent? i love that build but I dont think I play it right.
i believe theres a moderately old game (2009) but still not from something like the 2001 era where every strategy is completely different of Leta vs Jaedong where Leta goes for this build (but loses)
here you go! hope you can learn from this.
Ty for the vod. I also found some in the Tsl-Idra rep pack lol. He went 2 rax acad vs Deska.
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Phyrigian New Zealand. December 27 2011 07:49. Posts 1295
On December 27 2011 00:45 Retgery wrote: What advice do you have for a protoss that has a hard time going for the kill. My macro is decent and I do well in engagements but I'm just awful at going for the finishing blow and games wind up in the late game which I'm not very good at. This is a huge problem in PvZ cause I always wind up letting him macro up and mass ultras.
don't. if they're just spamming sunkens just expand. day9 talked about this in his earlier dailies about how lots of protoss say "how do you break tons of sunkens", just make tons of cannons and mass expand. if you cant manage late game, well, you'll have to learn to. just deny expos, sayle style, and spam cannons.
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Mystlord United States. December 27 2011 11:25. Posts 10257
On December 27 2011 00:45 Retgery wrote: What advice do you have for a protoss that has a hard time going for the kill. My macro is decent and I do well in engagements but I'm just awful at going for the finishing blow and games wind up in the late game which I'm not very good at. This is a huge problem in PvZ cause I always wind up letting him macro up and mass ultras.
The dreaded Reaver/Archon Protoss late game army is really scary for Zerg and it'll pretty much crush no matter what Zerg sends at you. Honestly, there's no need to land a "finishing blow". All you need to do is maintain your advantage. Storm drops, late game Corsair harassment, etc are all good ideas to maintain an economic edge over your opponent.
To be completely frank, replays would be really helpful.
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JMave Singapore. December 27 2011 11:32. Posts 1754
On December 25 2011 15:35 Golgotha wrote: 1. Been watching PL and in TvZ, many times I see Zerg scrambling to get lurkers to stop the Bio push. Well, they go for mutas first but mutas dont really do much since the T has turrets and the marines are all bunched up and hard to snipe one by one. They realize mutas are not being effective so they scramble for lurkers like madmen.
Why not just go straight for 2 base lurker/ling and push the T back since they wont have vessel by then. The muta tech delays the lurker and makes the bio push scary.
Or am I missing the point of muta play?
I understand why you go muta first in PvZ to stop the sairs and snipe the templars.
2. If muta tech first is best in ZvT, then is there ever a time where going lurker first is better? Like would it be better to go lurker against a meching terran (mass goliath with tanks, and even vults)?
Thanks!
muta first is to hold back the terran and to snipe small clumps of mm. 2 hatch lurker ling would be kinda all in because no drones. all terran would have to do is scout and throw down 3 bunkers, wait for a tank and gg. you are completely missing the point of muta play. the mutas are made to establish the 3rd gas for the zerg and to have carapace and lurkers on the way and to scout the terrans tech route. if you went lurker first (which is common) you'd have to do damage because you're not exactly holding the terran back the same way because with a decent mm spread the terran can break the lurkers at the front, and can stall with a few bunkers. 3 hatch lurker is common at D level play and is still viable at top, but theres just your reasoning. lurkers vs meching terran would be worse then mutas, for sure, a tank would just shut it down.
I'm sorry, I didn't explain that to the full extent it made sense in my head and it wasn't very clear, but I hope you couldn't understand to a reasonable extent!
thanks for the explanation. it seems like mutas are better at keeping the terran in base? that is what everyone is telling me so far. Keep the terran in base while you get your 3rd up. I do understand what you are saying about tanks shutting down lurkers, but after spire tech you go for lurkers to shut down tanks anyway! Everyone goes lurker in TvZ. Why not just get them sooner?
But now I see that mutas make it so that you can get an economic advantage with the threat of mutas. Lurkers cannot do this as well as mutas.
I always thought that you could keep the terran in base with lurkers at his front ( lurker contain ) while I expo behind that. but i do see how that is pretty much do or die if I am on two base.
3 base lurker sounds good though. It would stop the mid game push and I can spread out my lurkers so he would have to scan like mad or wait for a vessel if I spread my lurkers. Pretty much what I've been doing so far, cuz I am really bad with mutas and lurkers make me feel safe.
3 hatch lurkers isn''t bad. the reason why most high level players go for mutalisks rather than lurkers is because of the scouting advantage and the ability to apply mid-game pressure. it may not seem like a lot but at that particular timing, having to add on that extra few turrets before you have a good scv count and economic flow running makes a very big difference to your marine count since your additional rax will be delayed. the spire tech also gives you the option to move into guardians against the mech timing and to get scourges against the first vessel.
3 hatch lurker allows him to cut corners and he can easily delay the vessel slightly for tank siege and your timing attack will be easily crushed. i have written a short build write up about going for fake 2 hatch lurker to deflect the early marine push for a fast 3rd gas that moves into a very fast hive.
hey can you post that build? sounds wonderful for my playstyle.
On December 27 2011 01:08 therockmanxx wrote: How I fight against a Protoss death ball vT terran I dont have much problem, ( delay push with lurkers scourge, macro and attack at the last moment) But Toss has stronger units, sometimes some times he can just roll over my lurkers or what ever is in the middle of the map, then I lost map controlled and is really hard to defend bases at that point.
lurkers will always require reinforcements. during the lurker phase, it is the phase that you need to move to your 4th and 5th base. so therefore, how well your lurker control and army engagement during this period will determine how strong your ultralisk count can be.
the use for lurkers is mostly to do a contain because he will be spending lots of gas trying to break down the contain and you are limiting his ability to expand. the best way by far to deal with this is to scourge observers. if he is still sitting on two bases, replenishing those observers is very costly and will reduce his templar count significantly.
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NationInArms United States. December 28 2011 09:45. Posts 1534
On December 28 2011 09:45 NationInArms wrote: TvT: After 2 Fact vultures with mines and speed, when should the I expand to my natural?
I cant really give you much advice on this build but 2 fact is baaad in tvt. You rarely see it at pro level and when you do it tends to lose.
It's because of maps they use as opposed to what's played on icc or fish, it's not baaad. After you get enough gas for mines and speed take 2 scvs off gas and your minerals will start to bank up, just expo when you get enough and then add 2 scv back on gas.
Ironically any other 2 fact variant beats 2 fact vult. Also you only need 1 shop, I think I used 2 this game, old rep. After your initial attack and harass etc.. you use mines as a blanket so you can start pumping tanks/adding facts. Also need to know if he's going to drop you because then you need to put mines in your base coz if he catches you while you have no tanks, vults+scvs don't clean up gols or tanks well.
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Phyrigian New Zealand. December 28 2011 14:23. Posts 1295
On December 28 2011 13:26 RedHaZard wrote: Does anyone know if the free name change, given out by blizzard applys to both the NA and SEA server or just one?
wrong forum bro, lol.
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puppykiller United States. December 28 2011 15:34. Posts 1977
ok I know this is an ugly sweeping generalization of a question and im sure has been asked like 15 times during this thread. But how many supply of scv you want as terran in tvp and tvz assuming u 200/200.
Never learned this... hmm maybe i should just count in a bunch of flash reps...
Last edit: 2011-12-28 15:35:27
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
hacklebeast United States. December 28 2011 17:36. Posts 4643
On December 28 2011 15:34 puppykiller wrote: ok I know this is an ugly sweeping generalization of a question and im sure has been asked like 15 times during this thread. But how many supply of scv you want as terran in tvp and tvz assuming u 200/200.
Never learned this... hmm maybe i should just count in a bunch of flash reps...
you should populate all of your expos fully. if you get to a point where you have half the map, just turtle and tech to 3-3 mech. There is really no situation where you should be half populating two expos to keep your supply free. The only time to cut scv numbers is at the very end of the game when you are nearly mined out and have no use for them.
On December 27 2011 01:08 therockmanxx wrote: How I fight against a Protoss death ball vT terran I dont have much problem, ( delay push with lurkers scourge, macro and attack at the last moment) But Toss has stronger units, sometimes some times he can just roll over my lurkers or what ever is in the middle of the map, then I lost map controlled and is really hard to defend bases at that point.
lurkers will always require reinforcements. during the lurker phase, it is the phase that you need to move to your 4th and 5th base. so therefore, how well your lurker control and army engagement during this period will determine how strong your ultralisk count can be.
the use for lurkers is mostly to do a contain because he will be spending lots of gas trying to break down the contain and you are limiting his ability to expand. the best way by far to deal with this is to scourge observers. if he is still sitting on two bases, replenishing those observers is very costly and will reduce his templar count significantly.
As a brief addendum to this, on Python and other maps with backyard islands the Protoss will 99% take it and macro off of the third gas before trying to break out. Just keep this in mind and keep some scourge patrolling to take out the shuttles.
On December 28 2011 15:34 puppykiller wrote: ok I know this is an ugly sweeping generalization of a question and im sure has been asked like 15 times during this thread. But how many supply of scv you want as terran in tvp and tvz assuming u 200/200.
Never learned this... hmm maybe i should just count in a bunch of flash reps...
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Just be sure to not pull that many probes. Not only are you losing early game mining, but if you push too many through then they will continue to glitch out over the cannons, and they won't attack.
Mystlord 
United States. December 27 2011 11:25. Posts 10257
